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Alex, I'll take "Foods that don't have to be cooked"

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Alex, I'll take "Foods that don't have to be cooked"

Old 03-24-21, 09:54 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
I've spent a few minutes getting basic data on some food items. Turned out to be an interesting exercise. ...
Interesting graph. Your raisin data jumped out at me, so I looked at a Sun Maid package, 120 calories for 40 gram serving, which pretty much verifies your data.

Since carbohydrates are about 4 calories per gram, you can see that most of the foods that plotted to the right of the 400 calories/100 grams line are foods that have some fats since fats are about 9 calories per gram. But to the left of the 400 line, those foods are mostly carbs without much fat.

In the real world, you would have to add some weight for the ziplock bags or other packaging that came with the food, pushing weight up some small percentage.

Sodium content on Ramen, I think almost all of the sodium is in the powered flavor packet, so the user could tailor their sodium intake if the wished to. One of my tours, the former co-worker that I was traveling with did not want to lose weight (although he was overweight), he wanted to replenish 100 percent of his calories every day. We mostly had one pot suppers. And on most days we threw a brick of ramen into the pot but did not add the powered flavor packet, the ramen was used solely as an extra calorie booster.
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Old 03-24-21, 02:33 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
I've spent a few minutes getting basic data on some food items. Turned out to be an interesting exercise. (1) Nutritional values (calories/proteins per 100g) vary quite a bit across sources. I'll double check before making conclusions as to what's best in my case; (2) Quite a few surprises. In particular, instant noodles look like the best starch, despite lots of negative comments about ramen on the www, wrt their high caloric and sodium content, which could be seen as a plus for tourers. Other revelations include banana chips (I was found of them, but didn't realise how caloric they are) and coconut powder (great on ramens). Disappointed by the relatively low score for raisins. I'll explore alternative dried fruits, hoping to come up with a GRxP where x beats raisins

Nice, thanks. Got me to think about my smoothie I often drink so I looked up some of my ingredients. Post them in your graph if you wish.
​​​​​​All Per 100gms
Chia seeds:

Calories 486

Protein 16.5gms

Carbs 42.1 gms

Flax Seeds:

Calories 534

Protein 1.9gms

Carbs 3 gms

Hemp seed:

Calories 566

Protein 38 gms

Carbs 6.6 gms

Almonds:

Calories 579

Protein 21 gms

Carbs 21.5 gms

Cashews:

Calories 553

Protein 18.2 gms

Carbs 30.2 gms

Walnuts:

Calories 654

Protein 15.2 gms

Carbs 13.7 gms
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Old 03-24-21, 02:54 PM
  #128  
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you make nutritious smoothies (see updated chart below).

I'll explore a bit. First impression was to get on with the walnuts. But then, there is the cost (3x peanuts) and perhaps density -- same punch might require a larger bag (quick search and I stumbled across this -- unfortunately just a ranking rather than hard density metric. Almonds, perhaps? Fun research ahead

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Old 03-24-21, 10:16 PM
  #129  
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I'm wondering where a fried chocolate pie would be located on your chart ? Actually, don't tell me, I'll enjoy it even more here shortly if I don't know.
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Old 03-25-21, 08:22 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post

I'll explore a bit. First impression was to get on with the walnuts. But then, there is the cost (3x peanuts) and perhaps density -- same punch might require a larger bag (quick search and I stumbled across this -- unfortunately just a ranking rather than hard density metric. Almonds, perhaps? Fun research ahead
Density, good idea. Calories = protein + carbs + fat
Density will be based on this equation I believe. Fat being the dense part of it. More fat = more dense....I think

Fried chocolate cake....with ice cream hopefully FTW
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Old 03-25-21, 08:33 AM
  #131  
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You've got refried beans pegged at around 350calories/100grams. It's really 145. Couscous at nearly 400 when its about 112.

Where are you getting these facts from?

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-n...amount=100.000

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-n...amount=100.000

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Old 03-25-21, 08:56 AM
  #132  
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Actually, by density I was simply referring to the nutritional value per volume unit (say, a litre).

Walnuts are one of the more nutritious nuts (20% more calories per gram compared to peanuts). However, if you purchase walnuts sold in halves, you'll probably get only half the weight of peanuts in a given volume, so peanuts are a better choice if storage space is a consideration. (crushed walnuts should do better than halves). WRT starches, at first glance ramen look like a better choice in comparison with couscous (10% more calories per gram) but since a ramen cake is perhaps twice the volume of an equivalent couscous by weight, you'd be better off carrying couscous.

Eventually, I'll try to get nutritional values per volume unit for key food items.
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Old 03-25-21, 08:58 AM
  #133  
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Another no cook food source to consider: Hardtack ? The Ultimate Survival Food - Score Survival
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Old 03-25-21, 09:00 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You've got refried beans pegged at around 350calories/100grams. It's really 145. Couscous at nearly 400 when its about 112.

Where are you getting these facts from?

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-n...amount=100.000

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-n...amount=100.000
The values you refer to are for cooked food, i.e. including water. I took the nutritional values from the label on the packages. Found very close figure here
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Old 03-25-21, 09:03 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
Actually, by density I was simply referring to the nutritional value per volume unit (say, a litre).
Interesting. I never measure by density but rather by volume.
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Old 03-25-21, 09:04 AM
  #136  
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One more thought came to mind.

Not sure if any stores in Canada sell anything like this:
https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/fle.../0000000068786

I have bought that and split it into small zip locks when at home to take on trips, one baggie per day for snacks during the day.

It looks heavy and when you feel the weight of the package, it is (package almost a kg). But, that is misleading because at over 5 calories per gram that probably has more calories per gram than you will average when you add up the rest of your food. And it is quite dense (low volume), plus a bit of protein, suddenly that starts to look like a pretty good food to bring along. And M&Ms are the best way to carry chocolate in hot weather.
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Old 03-25-21, 09:23 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
One more thought came to mind.

Not sure if any stores in Canada sell anything like this:
https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/fle.../0000000068786
thanks for the pointer.

This is basically "enhanced GORP". What is interesting, though, is that it is priced very competitively compared to the "designer trail mixes" that are frequent in our grocery and specialty stores. Unfortunately, not available in Canada from what I can see. But, yeah, source of inspiration
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Old 03-25-21, 10:51 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
The values you refer to are for cooked food, i.e. including water. I took the nutritional values from the label on the packages. Found very close figure here
I think you have to consider serving or meal size. Otherwise you look at the calories for 100gms of almonds, for example, which may be one serving, and dry oatmeal or couscous which may be two or more servings.

Ps. Not saying you have to do anything personally perse, just using "you" in a general way and bouncing ideas around. I think the graph thing is a good step in making decisions

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Old 03-25-21, 11:40 AM
  #139  
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Am I the only one who just eats?
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Old 03-25-21, 11:45 AM
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Nice graph. I don't like to eat by the numbers, but there are times when packing that you need to. For instance, I always bring something fresh for at least the first three or four days, like a carrot, apple, celery, pepper. Pretty much useless numerically, but it makes me think I'm eating healthier. Carrying fresh fruit and veg is more a volume concern than a weight concern for me.

Re: Walnuts, I pack walnuts for muesli but prefer cashews for snacking. I just found out that walnuts have higher fat, but cashews have higher protein. It's probably not a bad idea to carry both. And walnuts aren't bad on salads in lieu of dressing. Dried olives, too, if you can find them.

Raisins and cashews are my perfect snacks. Raisins for a quick sugar boost mid-day, cashews at the end of the day for fat and protein.
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Old 03-25-21, 12:27 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Am I the only one who just eats?
Yes. We are all bots

Just eating only works if you have food sources readily available and no expectations or demands on physical output. Once you have to preplan or desire a specific outcome you wind up thinking about it. Or fall prey to every fad or miracle product that comes along.

Most easily prepared base expedition grade diets can be made from simple cheap ingredients with a little forethought and pre-planning.
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Old 03-25-21, 12:28 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I think you have to consider serving or meal size. Otherwise you look at the calories for 100gms of almonds, for example, which may be one serving, and dry oatmeal or couscous which may be two or more servings.
If the "serving size" used in Canada is the same as used in USA, that has nothing to do with nutrition, it was deemed an average size actually eaten in a meal decades ago by some committee. And a lot of those numbers were created in the era before a lot of people became obese. Some of the numbers have changed recently as people started to look at them and realize how stupid some of the numbers were.
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Old 03-25-21, 12:31 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Am I the only one who just eats?
I just eat 80 percent of the time. But if you are planning a week long trip where you will not be cooking, you can't "just eat" unless you decided in advance what you were going to carry on your bike.
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Old 03-25-21, 12:35 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
If the "serving size" used in Canada is the same as used in USA, that has nothing to do with nutrition, it was deemed an average size actually eaten in a meal decades ago by some committee. And a lot of those numbers were created in the era before a lot of people became obese. Some of the numbers have changed recently as people started to look at them and realize how stupid some of the numbers were.
Not what I'm talking about.

Taking oatmeal for example. You can look at the calories for 1/2 cup or 2 1/2 cups. Very different numbers. Which value do you use? 1/2 cup raw makes nearly 2 1/2 cups cooked.

However, 1/2 cup almonds is still 1/2 cup almonds - raw and serving size.

You should account for the difference between raw and serving size. If I want to calculate how many calories in my morning oatmeal by volume do I do that raw or cooked. There's quite a difference in calorie count between 1/2 and 2 1/2 cups. That's why I question some numbers for foods like oatmeal, rice, couscous etc...

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Old 03-25-21, 01:04 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Not what I'm talking about.

Taking oatmeal for example. You can look at the calories for 1/2 cup or 2 1/2 cups. Very different numbers. Which value do you use? 1/2 cup raw makes nearly 2 1/2 cups cooked.

However, 1/2 cup almonds is still 1/2 cup almonds - raw and serving size.

You should account for the difference between raw and serving size. If I want to calculate how many calories in my morning oatmeal by volume do I do that raw or cooked. There's quite a difference in calorie count between 1/2 and 2 1/2 cups. That's why I question some numbers for foods like oatmeal, rice, couscous etc...
Got it.

I rarely think in volume measurements, I have a good weight scale that often use. For example, at home I know how many ounces of pasta noodles I want, how many ounces (by weight) of sauce I want on it, etc. When I bbq, I know that I want my hamburger patties to be about 5 ounces, etc. But, I am an engineer by training, we often think in terms of absurdly excessive precision for things that do not warrant it.
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Old 03-25-21, 01:10 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Got it.

I rarely think in volume measurements, I have a good weight scale that often use. For example, at home I know how many ounces of pasta noodles I want, how many ounces (by weight) of sauce I want on it, etc. When I bbq, I know that I want my hamburger patties to be about 5 ounces, etc. But, I am an engineer by training, we often think in terms of absurdly excessive precision for things that do not warrant it.
Interesting. I would on the other hand, almost always measure by volume. 1 cup of this, 2 tbsps of that. Last night I Made a batch of rye hardtack: 2 cups whole wheat flour, 3 cups rye flour, 2 tbsps baking powder, 3 cups water. No idea how much it weighs But it made 12 serving size biscuits.
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Old 03-25-21, 01:45 PM
  #147  
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WRT portions -- my understanding is that you should work backwards, i.e. first getting an estimate of the amount of food (fuel) you'll need to burn. My estimate is 3 000 - 3 500 calories/day. I also know that I need close to a week of complete autonomy. The back of the envelope estimate is 2 pounds per day (900g). What is not clear to me is how large a container is required. (2 x 7 -> 14 pounds of Cheetos would require a fairly large bag). Important to me because I'll travel in a bear/minibear country such that my food should fit inside my 11L Ursack. My understanding (from reading Ursack's marketing blurb) is that 11L will hold enough food for 5 days x person -- one day short. I might be able to squeeze 6 days (the seventh doesn't have to be stored because it is eaten before bears can get to it), but that won't happen without some planning. Which is why I am googling nutrition facts
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Old 03-25-21, 01:55 PM
  #148  
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You are right about working backwards. Part of my food experiments design is to eat a certain food and see how my body reacts while performing daily physical tasks. The bean challenge was interesting in the sense that I felt no drop in energy over the whole month. In contrast my egg challenge created a steady decrease to the point that my body went into energy conservation mode similar to that faced by slowly starving people.

The other part is what you can stomach (pun intended) to eat for a sustained period. In one sense a complete nutrient and calorie dense meal bar would be best, as it would contain everything in the smallest packet size, but one may balk at eating them repeatedly. I get that way a bit with cliff bars.

Also, what keeps you satiated for a long enough period. This point is one reason I tend to avoid sugar/refined carbs in my diet.
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Old 03-25-21, 03:45 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
WRT portions -- my understanding is that you should work backwards, i.e. first getting an estimate of the amount of food (fuel) you'll need to burn. My estimate is 3 000 - 3 500 calories/day. ...
That is one way to do it. I pretty much planned what I wanted, then as a double check did the calorie calculations. And added up the protein as a separate calculation. Days where I needed more protein, which were most days, I added a small packet of Spam or smallest can of chicken or ham.

But I was fortunate, did not need to worry about bears on past solo bike trips.

And my trips where I did need to worry about bears were areas where usually there were good trees for hanging food. I previously mentioned that I bought an Ursack but have not yet used it. Most of my trips where bears were a concern were canoe trips, and both weight and volume were much less important on those trips.

You might have to roll the dice on your first day out, one dry bag in addition to the Ursack and hope that nothing goes wrong. For example, if you had some canned food, that should be free of scent so perhaps that could be outside the Ursack.

Do you have any friends that can loan you a second Ursack?
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Old 03-26-21, 09:56 AM
  #150  
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No, unfortunately, no UrsFriends. However, since the family "might" be traveling in bear country later this Summer, I could rationalize the purchase of another. But then, that's a lot of stuff and I'd rather have everything stuffed in one bag. I "think" this is doable. Will update.
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