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Rim brake touring bikes extinct?

Old 03-14-21, 12:46 PM
  #76  
phughes
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Depends on the region. Partly because of road and traffic design affecting the amount of required braking, partly because of an area's climate and chemistry.

The Seattle area is perpetually covered in a fine dust that never gets fully cleared from the roads, and which turns into a nasty abrasive when wet (and the roads are wet a lot here). I had one interesting comparison, two rims of the same model line, one on a bike that got used only in sunny weather and another on a bike that I was using near-exclusively in wet conditions: after around 1500 miles on each, the sunny-weather rim still looked new, the rainy-weather rim had very obvious concavity, and had burned through a hefty chunk of its safe usage life.

That was a fairly cheap rim and probably wearing faster than most, but it's not an unusual theme. Everybody who rides in the wet here is familiar with the situation. And yeah, there are people who burn through rims on a two-year cycle or faster, especially commuters.

I've also been in the room when the rim on someone's rain bike exploded due to brake track wear while airing it up before a ride. That's an extremely violent event: along a stretch of the rim the hooks separate from the rim base, there's a sound like a gunshot, and the tire blows off. If that failure had decided to happen during the ride, the fact that the guy hadn't checked his rim wear in a while could have resulted in serious injuries to himself and others (especially since it was on the front wheel).
Seattle gets on average 38 inches of rain a year. Seattle gets on average 4.6 inches of snow per year. Pittsburgh gets on average 38.3 inches of rain per year. Pittsburgh gets on average 27.7 inches of snow per year. Seattle doesn't have a lock on rainfall. Oh, the national average rainfall? 38.1 inches. The national average snowfall? 27.8 inches, so Seattle is actually below average when it comes to total precipitation when you factor in snowfall, and just average when you look at only rainfall. You also don't have a lock on dirt. Talk to the people in West Texas about your fine dust and they will laugh at you. They have sand, and sandy windstorms. I lived in Odessa a while. At least 1500 of my mikes on my current rims have been spent on crushed limestone, very abrasive, and it gets all over the bike. Add to that the abrasive material put down to combat snow and ice, and there is more abrasive material to affect the rims. Not surprisingly, the rims are still okay.

Did you wear your rims out in 1500 miles? Yes, I believe you. Is that the norm? No. Is two years the norm? No, otherwise the bike industry would have moved away from rim brakes years ago out of outright need, and user frustration at having to replace rims so often.

The argument that rims have to be changed every two years, in regards to someone asking about a rim brake model frame he is having trouble finding is ridiculous. It is like anything new. Oh my gosh, the old stuff'll kill you! You will be risking death and serious injury with those rim brakes! You will never survive. Update your will!
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Old 03-14-21, 02:17 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Seattle gets on average 38 inches of rain a year. Seattle gets on average 4.6 inches of snow per year. Pittsburgh gets on average 38.3 inches of rain per year. Pittsburgh gets on average 27.7 inches of snow per year. Seattle doesn't have a lock on rainfall. Oh, the national average rainfall? 38.1 inches.
I didn't claim that Seattle has a lock on rainfall. I said that it's wet a lot. We have a lot of overcast days with very light mist or drizzle where things just stay kind of damp. We have a lot of days where everything is wet even if it doesn't really "rain."

I suspect that the lightness of the precipitation actually makes the issue worse, by compacting gunk to road surfaces rather than washing them off.

You also don't have a lock on dirt.
I didn't claim that Seattle has a lock on dirt. I said that we have a certain kind of dirt. I'm certainly not referring to sand, so if sand is your local gunk, I'm not surprised that you'd have different outcomes.

Did you wear your rims out in 1500 miles? Yes
Well, no. It wasn't totally worn out. The concavity is easy to feel with a finger, and if a straight edge is placed across the rim, it's easy to see as well. But it's not so worn that it needs to be retired. I actually still have it in service, but it's been on a different bike and hasn't been used for much wet hilly riding in a while.

Is that the norm? No. Is two years the norm? No
For people who do high volumes of wet hilly riding around here, yes, it is the norm.

And I'm not "doing things wrong." I don't, like, needlessly drag my brakes on downhills out of some general fear of going fast; I've reached just shy of 60mph on the local hills on a road bike, and I've exceeded 40mph on the local mountainous gravel double-track. I also clean my pads and rims when they're gritty.

otherwise the bike industry would have moved away from rim brakes years ago out of outright need, and user frustration at having to replace rims so often.
Only if it was a very broad issue that the right people in the right places agreed upon. The bicycle industry tends to be pretty conservative and slow-moving.

Look at road bike gearing in the 70s and 80s. Nearly everything used 52-42 cranks or thereabouts, and big cogs for racing bikes were usually 24T or smaller, with even recreational bikes almost never going bigger than 30T. There were a ton of people in hilly areas who would have benefitted a lot from lower. And, there wasn't really any technical reason not to provide lower: quality long-cage derailleurs were available and affordable (like SunTour's GT or Shimano's GS models), triples didn't add much supply chain overhead because they used the same shifters and FDs as doubles, and triples could also be made with fairly low q-factors if desired (the Sugino Mighty Tour triple on my 1979 Fuji America has a q-factor of 142mm, narrower than many modern road racing doubles).
In retrospect, the needlessly high low-end gearing is often pointed to as one of the biggest weaknesses of old road bikes. At the time, the universality of higher low-end gearing was often pointed to as proof that lower gearing was unnecessary.

In places where rim wear is an issue, many people with high riding volumes in foul weather have aggressively embraced discs as a solution.

The argument that rims have to be changed every two years, in regards to someone asking about a rim brake model frame he is having trouble finding is ridiculous. It is like anything new. Oh my gosh, the old stuff'll kill you! You will be risking death and serious injury with those rim brakes! You will never survive. Update your will!
You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth. I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable for rim wear to be a concern. Here's my touring bike, which I built up two years ago, sporting cantilever brakes (among a lot of other old tech, including a few components that are actually several decades old):



Incidentally, my gravel bike also has rim brakes...



...Although a new gravel bike which is currently half-built will have discs. The v-brake setup on the old gravel bike works extremely well, and from an actual braking standpoint, I'm not expecting the discs to offer much improvement outside of the occasional heavy rain conditions. But when I built the wheels for the new bike, I used considerably nicer rims than I used for the old bike, and brake track wear was a big part of my reasoning for that.

Last edited by HTupolev; 03-14-21 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 03-14-21, 02:33 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I didn't claim that Seattle has a lock on rainfall. I said that it's wet a lot. We have a lot of overcast days with very light mist or drizzle where things just stay kind of damp. We have a lot of days where everything is wet even if it doesn't really "rain."

I suspect that the lightness of the precipitation actually makes the issue worse, by compacting gunk to road surfaces rather than washing them off.


I didn't claim that Seattle has a lock on dirt. I said that we have a certain kind of dirt. I'm certainly not referring to sand, so if sand is your local gunk, I'm not surprised that you'd have different outcomes.


Well, no. It wasn't totally worn out. The concavity is easy to feel with a finger, and if a straight edge is placed across the rim, it's easy to see as well. But it's not so worn that it needs to be retired. I actually still have it in service, but it's been on a different bike and hasn't been used for much wet hilly riding in a while.


For people who do high volumes of wet hilly riding around here, yes, it is the norm.

And I'm not "doing things wrong." I don't, like, needlessly drag my brakes on downhills out of some general fear of going fast; I've reached just shy of 60mph on the local hills on a road bike, and I've exceeded 40mph on the local mountainous gravel double-track. I also clean my pads and rims when they're gritty.


Only if it was a very broad issue that the right people in the right places agreed upon. The bicycle industry tends to be pretty conservative and slow-moving.

Look at road bike gearing in the 70s and 80s. Nearly everything used 52-42 cranks or thereabouts, and big cogs for racing bikes were usually 24T or smaller, with even recreational bikes almost never going bigger than 30T. There were a ton of people in hilly areas who would have benefitted a lot from lower. And, there wasn't really any technical reason not to provide lower: quality long-cage derailleurs were available and affordable (like SunTour's GT or Shimano's GS models), triples didn't add much supply chain overhead because they used the same shifters and FDs as doubles, and triples could also be made with fairly low q-factors if desired (the Sugino Mighty Tour triple on my 1979 Fuji America has a q-factor of 142mm, narrower than many modern road racing doubles).
In retrospect, the needlessly high low-end gearing is often pointed to as one of the biggest weaknesses of old road bikes. At the time, the universality of higher low-end gearing was often pointed to as proof that lower gearing was unnecessary.

In places where rim wear is an issue, many people with high riding volumes in foul weather have aggressively embraced discs as a solution.


You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth. I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable for rim wear to be a concern. Here's my touring bike, which I built up two years ago, sporting cantilever brakes:



Incidentally, my gravel bike also has rim brakes...



...Although a new gravel bike which is currently half-built will have discs. The v-brake setup on the old gravel bike works extremely well, and from an actual braking standpoint, I'm not expecting the discs to offer much improvement outside of the occasional heavy rain conditions. But when I built the wheels for the new bike, I used considerably nicer rims than I used for the old bike, and brake track wear was a big part of my reasoning for that.
You are taking this way too personally considering I am simply saying the argument is ridiculous in light of the fact the OP simply wants to buy a Surly LHT with rim brakes. And it is ridiculous. He wants what he wants. Just as I wanted a LHT with rim brakes.

Just like cars, the type of riding will partially dictate brake component were. In town, stopping a lot, will wear parts faster than touring on a lonely back highway for hours on end without having to stop. Since this is the touring forum, that is my particular angle in reasoning for this particular discussion.

As for the difference between the V-Brakes and disc, you will probably enjoy better braking modulation. I think you are going to love that. So from that standpoint alone you will enjoy them more than just when raining. As for wear, given the same set of conditions, you will be wearing disc brake pads faster than your rim brake pads, and you will go through rotors faster than you went through rims on your rim brake bike. Your worn brake disc though will not cause any load capacity changes like a worn rim will. All in all, a good choice for the new bike.

Don't mind me today, I'm just yelling, "Get off of my lawn!" Oh, and nice bike and pics by the way.
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Old 03-14-21, 03:23 PM
  #79  
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Just an FYI:

On the topic of rims for rim brakes, unfortunately Ryde (formerly Rigida) no longer makes rims with the CSS braking surface. More info on those rims here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/the-bes...cycle-touring/

On a different forum an employee with a bike manufacturer commented that the shift to disc brakes cut into the demand for CSS rims, thus Ryde took them out of production.

I have those rims on one of my bikes that I built up seven years ago. There is no discernable rim wear at all. And they have had some abrasive riding conditions.





SJS has a limited supply of CSS rims and brake pads, but shipping from the UK at this time is rather pricy, along with the price for these rims.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=css

Last edited by Tourist in MSN; 03-14-21 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 03-14-21, 03:33 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
As for the difference between the V-Brakes and disc, you will probably enjoy better braking modulation. I think you are going to love that. So from that standpoint alone you will enjoy them more than just when raining.
I know what hydros feel like. I own a hardtail with them, and I've ridden other bikes that use them.

I wouldn't claim that there's anything exotic going on with my v-brakes, it's just good characteristics for all parts of the system. The Cane Creek Drop-V levers are heavy, but also stiff. The frameset is heavily constructed (it's a very early MTB), so braking forces create very little twisting at the pads and calipers. The Kool Stop Salmon pads are a reasonable choice for most conditions the bike experiences. I'm using decent low-compression housing, appropriate lubrication, and appropriate ferrules at the levers. I'm careful when I dial in pad placement and cable tension, and the wheels are true enough that I can set the pads at the not-quite-hair-trigger engagement distance I like, and roughly equidistant from the rims so that engagement is pretty even.



I know what people are referring to when they say that v-brakes have poor modulation, or feel vague or spongey. This setup isn't like that.

And it's not just my own opinion. A couple of my friends who replaced their old rim-brake CX bikes with modern hydro-disc gravel bikes later tried my brakes and were surprised at how good they felt. One of them was still maintaining his old bike, and asked me how I did the setup.

As for wear, given the same set of conditions, you will be wearing disc brake pads faster than your rim brake pads, and you will go through rotors faster than you went through rims on your rim brake bike.
Oh, for sure. But replacing pads and rotors is vastly easier and cheaper than replacing quality rims!
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Old 03-14-21, 03:36 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
You filthy elitist
The funny thing with Paul is his stuff isn't always traditionally sexy it is a very utilitarian look in a lot of cases but that does it for me. It is just good quality stuff made in the U.S. that has shown to work well.
Ugh, you are tiresome and banal.
I dont think people who use Paul are elitist. Didnt say it or suggest it.

You specifically are elitist in how you post here. Its an opinion based on many comments across many thread topics. You continually take the route that makes cycling exclusive instead of inclusive(while ironically concurrently preaching inclusivity) and you continually suggest bikes and components that are 2-3x beyond someone's stated budget because 'it works better' or 'is simply nicer'.

Your comment about rim brakes being dead once ee and Paul stop selling then was another example which highlights your absurd take on the industry.
Rim brakes are almost dead for new drop bar LBS level bikes. ee and Paul brakes can continue, but that doesnt change anything. ee and Paul brakes can stop being made and that too won't change anything.


Pretty sure I'm out on this since I doubt there will be any meaningful discussion coming from what I typed above.
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Old 03-14-21, 04:59 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I know what hydros feel like. I own a hardtail with them, and I've ridden other bikes that use them.

I wouldn't claim that there's anything exotic going on with my v-brakes, it's just good characteristics for all parts of the system. The Cane Creek Drop-V levers are heavy, but also stiff. The frameset is heavily constructed (it's a very early MTB), so braking forces create very little twisting at the pads and calipers. The Kool Stop Salmon pads are a reasonable choice for most conditions the bike experiences. I'm using decent low-compression housing, appropriate lubrication, and appropriate ferrules at the levers. I'm careful when I dial in pad placement and cable tension, and the wheels are true enough that I can set the pads at the not-quite-hair-trigger engagement distance I like, and roughly equidistant from the rims so that engagement is pretty even.



I know what people are referring to when they say that v-brakes have poor modulation, or feel vague or spongey. This setup isn't like that.

And it's not just my own opinion. A couple of my friends who replaced their old rim-brake CX bikes with modern hydro-disc gravel bikes later tried my brakes and were surprised at how good they felt. One of them was still maintaining his old bike, and asked me how I did the setup.


Oh, for sure. But replacing pads and rotors is vastly easier and cheaper than replacing quality rims!
Well, you are preaching to the choir, as I see nothing wrong with V-Brakes, or cantis even. I run cantis, and my wife's bike has v-brakes. Proper setup is the key, and it sounds like you have yours set up really well. DOn't lose your touch when you move to disc, others may need your assistance.

And yes, replacing rotors is much easier than replacing rims. The same with pads.
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Old 03-14-21, 05:59 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Just an FYI:

On the topic of rims for rim brakes, unfortunately Ryde (formerly Rigida) no longer makes rims with the CSS braking surface. More info on those rims here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/the-bes...cycle-touring/

On a different forum an employee with a bike manufacturer commented that the shift to disc brakes cut into the demand for CSS rims, thus Ryde took them out of production.

I have those rims on one of my bikes that I built up seven years ago. There is no discernable rim wear at all. And they have had some abrasive riding conditions.





SJS has a limited supply of CSS rims and brake pads, but shipping from the UK at this time is rather pricy, along with the price for these rims.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=css
Sorry to hear they quit making them. That looks like an incredible ride.
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Old 03-14-21, 08:59 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ugh, you are tiresome and banal.
I dont think people who use Paul are elitist. Didnt say it or suggest it.

You specifically are elitist in how you post here. Its an opinion based on many comments across many thread topics. You continually take the route that makes cycling exclusive instead of inclusive(while ironically concurrently preaching inclusivity) and you continually suggest bikes and components that are 2-3x beyond someone's stated budget because 'it works better' or 'is simply nicer'.

Your comment about rim brakes being dead once ee and Paul stop selling then was another example which highlights your absurd take on the industry.
Rim brakes are almost dead for new drop bar LBS level bikes. ee and Paul brakes can continue, but that doesnt change anything. ee and Paul brakes can stop being made and that too won't change anything.


Pretty sure I'm out on this since I doubt there will be any meaningful discussion coming from what I typed above.
Maybe you just need a nap? Sometimes they can be quite useful when cranky or tired. The Spanish have the right idea with the siesta (granted it is on the decline) and it can be good for the heart and the mind.

Oh no I suggest better bikes...the absolute horror. A lot of people are not quite so knowledgeable about bikes so they will list a budget that is really low or list parts that are on the lower end because that is easier to find or they just haven't looked around. Having talked with many many hundreds if not thousands of customers over the years I know showing people something nicer isn't a bad thing and sometimes they go for it and sometimes they don't. If they say $100 and you never show them $300 they might not even have considered it. But yeah we should all have a super narrow view when talking to someone and put blinders on so we don't dare veer off course. That would be terrible to show anything but what a poster might narrowly be looking for. It is also terrible to enjoy nicer parts that is just the worst too.

What do we do with nicer parts if talking about them is elitist or maybe not but somehow yes? It seems as if you don't provide a good solution for that. Should we all just share one opinion (yours most likely) or is there room for something else?

Absurd take on the industry? Ok I will give you that one, why not! I don't mind really I don't just take the same path as everyone else and that is fine by me.However yes when the quality stuff ceases to become available we will truly start seeing the demise it may not be totally and absolutely dead but it will be on the last legs.

Also the joke about the Paul stuff on Doug's post was of course a joke, it was a lighthearted ribbing of you not intended to offend and make you feel bad and I apologize if I did. I truly have no major issues with you and really haven't seen any posts that make me dislike you to the point I think about your posts and hone in on them.
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Old 03-15-21, 11:34 AM
  #85  
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Look at the Bianchi Volpe. It has been positioned over the years as either a touring, entry level CX, or currently allroad/gravel, all with the same frame geometry. Still offered with cantis, but downgraded from Tiagra 10sp with front triple and Shimano CX-50 cantis to Sora 9 sp. with front double and Tektro cantis. A plus in this age of stealth black bikes is silver components. https://www.bianchi.com/bike/sora-9sp-2/

I have one (2015 model) and really like it, especially after removing the heavy, dead OEM Vittoria wire bead touring tires and fitting Conti GP4000SII and then Rene Herse 32mm tires. Chainstays might be a bit short for a pannier loaded tourer. It has front and rear rack mounts.
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Old 03-15-21, 11:45 AM
  #86  
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Another thread about disc brakes. Personally, Iíve never had disc brakes and donít intend to on a road bike. Iíve never failed to stop.
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Old 03-15-21, 11:48 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Why are people braking so much downhill? The only time I brake going downhill is when the cars ahead of me are going too slow and I have to brake to slow to their speed. At the same time I am muttering about stupid slow drivers. I live in the Pittsburgh area, and we have plenty of hills. I also commuted in the Ozarks, which also has lots of hills. Both places gave me speeds of up to 45 mph on downhills if I wanted to push, and in the Pittsburgh area, that is coupled with nice curves. You can keep the speeds down more by sitting upright, using wind resistance to slow you down.

Oh, and rims last a long time. If you are wearing rims out in two years, you are doing it wrong. See above.
If you live and ride in the Pacific northwest, especially in the mountains or in the rain, you can wear out rims fast. Mountains - lots of descents that require real braking if you intend to stay on the pavement (and enjoy waking up tomorrow). The issue here is that the dust, sand, grit is almost entirely volcanic and very abrasive. In my commuting days, I'd kill rims in one and a half winters riding 3-4 days a week, 10 miles each way with some stops at hill bottoms. City traffic about half the ride. (Most of Oregon is hundreds of feet deep in volcanic material. This isn't going away fast, even on a planetary scale.)
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Old 03-15-21, 01:13 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Bill in VA View Post
Look at the Bianchi Volpe. It has been positioned over the years as either a touring, entry level CX, or currently allroad/gravel, all with the same frame geometry. Still offered with cantis, but downgraded from Tiagra 10sp with front triple and Shimano CX-50 cantis to Sora 9 sp. with front double and Tektro cantis. A plus in this age of stealth black bikes is silver components. https://www.bianchi.com/bike/sora-9sp-2/

I have one (2015 model) and really like it, especially after removing the heavy, dead OEM Vittoria wire bead touring tires and fitting Conti GP4000SII and then Rene Herse 32mm tires. Chainstays might be a bit short for a pannier loaded tourer. It has front and rear rack mounts.
The Volpe makes a good touring bike. Bill is right, the chainstays are not as long as the LHTs. I wear size 10s, and any larger might be a problem. I used a Volpe to ride across the U.S., and many other long tours. While I have other touring bikes the Volpe is still my favorite.
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Old 03-15-21, 01:42 PM
  #89  
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Some good back-and-forth in these posts, though I won't wade into the debate over which kind of brake is better. And thanks for the suggestions on available bikes. I will offer this find from my own research--Bassi, a bike maker in Montreal. They don't seem widely known, but as it happens my local bike shop is one of only a couple in the US who carry them. I'm liking the look of this one, only about $100 more than the offerings from Surly, New Albion, etc. Fairly stout tubing, three bottle bosses, clearance for 45mm tires, and a handy shoulder strap option:

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Old 03-15-21, 01:52 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986 View Post
Some good back-and-forth in these posts, though I won't wade into the debate over which kind of brake is better. And thanks for the suggestions on available bikes. I will offer this find from my own research--Bassi, a bike maker in Montreal. They don't seem widely known, but as it happens my local bike shop is one of only a couple in the US who carry them. I'm liking the look of this one, only about $100 more than the offerings from Surly, New Albion, etc:
Nice frame. I like the shoulder rest for carrying. Nice touch. Short chainstays compared the the LHT though. I have been looking for LHT frames for you, so if I find one, I'll let you know.
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Old 03-15-21, 02:10 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
If you live and ride in the Pacific northwest, especially in the mountains or in the rain, you can wear out rims fast. Mountains - lots of descents that require real braking if you intend to stay on the pavement (and enjoy waking up tomorrow). The issue here is that the dust, sand, grit is almost entirely volcanic and very abrasive. In my commuting days, I'd kill rims in one and a half winters riding 3-4 days a week, 10 miles each way with some stops at hill bottoms. City traffic about half the ride. (Most of Oregon is hundreds of feet deep in volcanic material. This isn't going away fast, even on a planetary scale.)
Great, I know. I already said that yes, you can wear out a rim in two years, or even sooner if you try. What you, and others don't seem to get, is this thread is about someone wanting a touring bike frame with rim brakes, and that the average person does not wear out their rims in two years. Very few people do that, because contrary to what you may think, not everyone lives and rides in the Pacific NW. We are talking about what is normal, not what is common to people in a very limited geographical area. This is also in the touring bike section, which makes the assumption, that the OP will be using this for touring, so probably not 3-4 days, 12 months a year riding in the Pacific NW. What is normal to the Pacific NW is not germane to this discussion. And the thread is actually about finding a frame that meets the desires of the OP.

My comment regarding, "Why are people braking so much," was partially tongue in cheek, and partially reality. When touring, you generally do not use the brakes as much as you do when commuting in town. Brakes last much longer, mileage-wise, as do rims. Once again, Touring section of the forum.

Anyway, I was happy to see an actual frame related post by the OP today when I logged on.
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Old 03-15-21, 02:27 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986 View Post
Some good back-and-forth in these posts, though I won't wade into the debate over which kind of brake is better. And thanks for the suggestions on available bikes. I will offer this find from my own research--Bassi, a bike maker in Montreal. They don't seem widely known, but as it happens my local bike shop is one of only a couple in the US who carry them. I'm liking the look of this one, only about $100 more than the offerings from Surly, New Albion, etc. Fairly stout tubing, three bottle bosses, clearance for 45mm tires, and a handy shoulder strap option:
Rivendell has the Rodini for $900 US, with slightly longer chainstays.
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Old 03-15-21, 02:43 PM
  #93  
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Here are some more.
Privateer (Frame/Fork) ? New Albion Cycles


https://www.cinelli-usa.com/cinelli-...ay/?sku=BI3005
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Old 03-15-21, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986 View Post
Some good back-and-forth in these posts, though I won't wade into the debate over which kind of brake is better. And thanks for the suggestions on available bikes. I will offer this find from my own research--Bassi, a bike maker in Montreal. They don't seem widely known, but as it happens my local bike shop is one of only a couple in the US who carry them. I'm liking the look of this one, only about $100 more than the offerings from Surly, New Albion, etc. Fairly stout tubing, three bottle bosses, clearance for 45mm tires, and a handy shoulder strap option:
Thatís looks like a pretty decent deal.
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Old 03-15-21, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
The Volpe makes a good touring bike. Bill is right, the chainstays are not as long as the LHTs. I wear size 10s, and any larger might be a problem. I used a Volpe to ride across the U.S., and many other long tours. While I have other touring bikes the Volpe is still my favorite.
Does Bianchi still make that? One of the women in my Ď99 cross country trip rode one.
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Old 03-15-21, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986 View Post
I have been considering a new touring frame and have looked many times at the Surly LHT, which is pictured to this day with RIM brakes on their website. After checking with the local dealer, though, I've learned that the rim-brake LHT has been cancelled. I've scoured the websites of Surly dealers across the country looking for a closeout frame in my size (58 or 60) but so far no luck.

I agree with Grant Petersen's assessment of disc brakes, but can't afford the rim-brake Rivendells. Wondering if anyone knows of other brands still making affordable touring frames spec'd with cantis that can take fatter tires like the Surly. Thanks.
Check out a custom Cicli Barco. They make anything you want, and make it beautifully and for reasonable prices and time frame. The shipping from Italy is not a big deal, I think about $170.
Gianluca Barco at info@ciclibarco.it He is very fluent in English and goes out of his way to make sure you get exactly what you want. Their bikes have won prestigious awards at Bespoked, the British handmade bicycle show. Here is a photo of my Custom Cicli Barco, just one year old. It is made from Columbus XCr stainless steel tubing and has all the extras. It weighs 18.7 lbs in a size 58.5 cm frame with alloy rims. That is the top of the line price wise, but they make frames at all price points depending on the type of frame material. They even make frames with XCr lugs and carbon tubes.

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Old 03-15-21, 07:35 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Does Bianchi still make that? One of the women in my ‘99 cross country trip rode one.
Was her name Ellen by the way? (Won't use her last name to protect privacy.) I had a friend by that name who rode XC on a Volpe in '99 (Northern Tier).
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Old 03-15-21, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Nice frame. I like the shoulder rest for carrying. Nice touch. Short chainstays compared the the LHT though. I have been looking for LHT frames for you, so if I find one, I'll let you know.
Thanks for keeping eye out, but please don't spend too much time on it. I think it's a needle in a haystack at this point . . .

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Old 03-15-21, 07:46 PM
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So what do you think of the horizontal drop outs as displayed in the couple frames above? Deal breaker ? Never been a fan but then I'm often the one where if it can go wrong............
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Old 03-15-21, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
So what do you think of the horizontal drop outs as displayed in the couple frames above? Deal breaker ? Never been a fan but then I'm often the one where if it can go wrong............
I've never had any other kind of dropout so I have no way to compare. The only time horizontal gave me a problem was once in a race when I pushed hard on a hill and the wheel pulled out of alignment. For general riding, no problems. I do like the flexibility to effectively change the wheelbase and responsiveness of the back end depending on the kind of riding.
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