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Rim brake touring bikes extinct?

Old 03-10-21, 05:33 PM
  #1  
Fuji1986
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Rim brake touring bikes extinct?

I have been considering a new touring frame and have looked many times at the Surly LHT, which is pictured to this day with RIM brakes on their website. After checking with the local dealer, though, I've learned that the rim-brake LHT has been cancelled. I've scoured the websites of Surly dealers across the country looking for a closeout frame in my size (58 or 60) but so far no luck.

I agree with Grant Petersen's assessment of disc brakes, but can't afford the rim-brake Rivendells. Wondering if anyone knows of other brands still making affordable touring frames spec'd with cantis that can take fatter tires like the Surly. Thanks.
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Old 03-10-21, 05:52 PM
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You might have to watch the used markets.

I suspect that you can still buy rim brake touring bike frames from Europe, but the shipping cost would likely outweigh any savings. I have two Thorns that are rim brake, mine are 26 inch wheel. Shipping cost on one of my frames in 2013 was over $100 at that time, likely much more now, I also had to pay customs duty on that frame too. And if you got the wrong size shipped across the atlantic, that would be an expensive mistake.

Maybe check Co-Motion, but that likely is not cheap either.
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Old 03-10-21, 06:29 PM
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Jamis Aurora?

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/aurora.html
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Old 03-10-21, 07:39 PM
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I do not know if you are set on a new bike. A lot of people buy a touring bike, do a few tours and end up selling them on Craigslist for a low price. A Windsor tourist showed up locally in my size and I snagged it for $200. (has cantilever brakes)
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Old 03-10-21, 09:44 PM
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58cm lht available here. Not in stock but orderable(2-7 days)
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Su...ameset-p31198/
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Old 03-10-21, 10:20 PM
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You might be able to find a Trek Canti 520 frameset. I don't see it in the website now, but i know they were still available pretty recently. Might be worth checking with a dealer.
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Old 03-10-21, 10:55 PM
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This is VERY unfortunate. I would choose (and have chosen) a rim-brake bicycle over QR-disc bicycles, even if cost isn't an issue. Thru-axle is currently the only version of disc-brake that's worthwhile to me. I would like to see people forcing retailers/manufacturers to abandon QR-disc.
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Old 03-11-21, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyah
This is VERY unfortunate. I would choose (and have chosen) a rim-brake bicycle over QR-disc bicycles, even if cost isn't an issue. Thru-axle is currently the only version of disc-brake that's worthwhile to me. I would like to see people forcing retailers/manufacturers to abandon QR-disc.
I have three bikes with QR wheels and disc brakes. What's the issue?
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Old 03-11-21, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyah
... I would like to see people forcing retailers/manufacturers to abandon QR-disc.
There are a small number of idiots out there that do not know how to use a quick release lever properly, they think it is intended to be used as a wrench, not as a cam operated tightener. I know because I used to work with one of them, I was shocked when I saw how she installed the wheel on her bike.

I know that some people complain that they are unable to seat their wheel in a frame properly to get the disc aligned properly with quick release, but I do not know what they are doing wrong, unless they bought a frame with loose tolerances. I have no trouble at all.

And a few manufacturers did not think about how their dropouts were oriented when they designed a frame or fork for a disc brake, thus a loose quick release could allow a wheel to pop out of the dropouts under braking, but that was designer error.

If you have some good reason to explain why a technology that has worked quite well for over a half century for hundreds of millions of people should be banned, you should explain why.
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Old 03-11-21, 06:32 AM
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Using a qr with discs require a certain amount of attention to detail and specifically reasonable eyesight to make the teeny tiny adjustment/positioning so that the rotor is lined up well, even with a well positioned caliper.
Some riders I know just aren't attentive or have an aptitude for mechanical stuff at all, so this is an issue.

but to be fair, it took me a while to get used to the mm dependant change of having to be careful of positioning , compared to an easy to eyeball rim wheel lining up, so I get the thru axle thing, even if I haven't used one ever.
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Old 03-11-21, 07:41 AM
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After I work on our bikes when off the ground. The last thing I do as standard practice is to place the bike on the ground, put a bit of my weight on it, loosen the QR and then tighten the QR. Often, the wheel alignment corrects a bit and everything is centered. To not do this may result in the axel shifting over time and galling the frame.
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Old 03-11-21, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IPassGas
After I work on our bikes when off the ground. The last thing I do as standard practice is to place the bike on the ground, put a bit of my weight on it, loosen the QR and then tighten the QR. Often, the wheel alignment corrects a bit and everything is centered. To not do this may result in the axel shifting over time and galling the frame.
I imagine it's my technique, but I have consistently found that by setting the wheel and tightening qr when the bike is on its two wheels to be the best method. If done on the stand, I find I often am off a bit, so prefer to do it with bike on ground. It must simply be not lining things up well and or having one side drop a bit from not being careful holding it in place.
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Old 03-11-21, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
Using a qr with discs require a certain amount of attention to detail and specifically reasonable eyesight to make the teeny tiny adjustment/positioning so that the rotor is lined up well, even with a well positioned caliper.
Some riders I know just aren't attentive or have an aptitude for mechanical stuff at all, so this is an issue.

but to be fair, it took me a while to get used to the mm dependant change of having to be careful of positioning , compared to an easy to eyeball rim wheel lining up, so I get the thru axle thing, even if I haven't used one ever.
I think you just explained it.

My one bike that has disc in rear apparently has tight enough tolerance that when I drop the wheel in it is perfect. But if many bikes are made with looser tolerances, I can see having to fiddle with it.

Decades ago, some bikes with horizontal dropouts had little adjusting screws (Campy drop outs for example) so you could be very precise in how you adjusted the frame. But on other bikes I recall holding a hand on the left chainstay and a spoke in the fingers to adjust how the wheel was oriented for rim brakes, it only took a few seconds but you just get in a habit of doing it. Then vertical dropouts came along, you did not need to do that any more. But now if you have sloppy tolerance in the dropouts and you are used to vertical dropouts, I can see needing to fiddle with it for a few seconds when you are not in the habit of doing so.

Originally Posted by IPassGas
After I work on our bikes when off the ground. The last thing I do as standard practice is to place the bike on the ground, put a bit of my weight on it, loosen the QR and then tighten the QR. Often, the wheel alignment corrects a bit and everything is centered. ....
Yup. I often do that too, very easy to do with a quick release. When touring I usually use bolt on skewers instead of quick release as a theft deterrent, that slows down the process but it still can be done in seconds.

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Old 03-11-21, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
I imagine it's my technique....
I did not mean to imply that you were not careful. I too find that when on the stand, even though I have snugged the wheel up by clamping tightly with my hand against frame, it still is not as good as putting a fair amount of weight on it while on the ground.
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Old 03-11-21, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I think you just explained it.

My one bike that has disc in rear apparently has tight enough tolerance that when I drop the wheel in it is perfect. But if many bikes are made with looser tolerances, I can see having to fiddle with it.

Decades ago, some bikes with horizontal dropouts had little adjusting screws (Campy drop outs for example) so you could be very precise in how you adjusted the frame. But on other bikes I recall holding a hand on the left chainstay and a spoke in the fingers to adjust how the wheel was oriented for rim brakes, it only took a few seconds but you just get in a habit of doing it. Then vertical dropouts came along, you did not need to do that any more. But now if you have sloppy tolerance in the dropouts and you are used to vertical dropouts, I can see needing to fiddle with it for a few seconds when you are not in the habit of doing so.
once I figured out how to easily center the caliper properly, it is easier, but I still find that I need to eyeball it with a teeny tiny nudge to one side or the other before I do up the qr, and also I see that when you tighten the qr, there is a slight movement, so I compensate for this little additional movement.
Again, not hard to do, like you said about stuff, but for some people this is challenging.
Sure, ideally one should just plonk the thing in and thats it, so this is why I actually understand the thru axle idea. I'm sure I'll own a thruaxle bike at some point and like it....

oh, re the rear dropout adjusting screw things, I have a bike with these, its an elegant little detail, one of the reasons that I just can't sell my old touring bike for now, its a neat frame. You slide the wheel in and bam, its centered. (but frankly, hardly ever have to remove the wheel, even when I rode the bike a lot, so it was cool, but not a deal breaker)
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Old 03-11-21, 09:35 AM
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My opinion was formed on the following timeline:
1. Wanting disc brakes.
2. Buying a disc brake bicycle that, by mere coincidence, happened to be thru-axle.
3. Seeing that people are having disappointing results with QR-disc brakes.
4. Reading about how disc brakes are strong enough to overpower QR-skewers.
5. Feeling relieved that my bicycle was designed with thru-axles.
6. Being annoyed that manufacturers are using the advantages of disc brakes to sell bicycles that turn out to be disappointing. I could've easily fallen victim to that.
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Old 03-11-21, 09:58 AM
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Where did my thread go? (Probably where rim-brake touring bikes went.)
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Old 03-11-21, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986
Where did my thread go? (Probably where rim-brake touring bikes went.)
That happens a lot around here.
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Old 03-11-21, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986
Where did my thread go? (Probably where rim-brake touring bikes went.)

i bought me one of these to build up, fortunately residing in the middle kingdom,
thus avoiding the ridiculous shipping fee.

there's this and some other classic style steel touring frames out of taiwan with
rim brake studs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LKLM-318-70...EAAOSwvQdczYfC
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Old 03-11-21, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuji1986
Where did my thread go? (Probably where rim-brake touring bikes went.)
Sorry for the lack of suggestions for rim-based bicycles. Rivendale was the only one I could think of that I know still offered them. I tried to check Soma Manufacturing but their site was unresponsive.
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Old 03-11-21, 11:53 AM
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It's 2021. We're in the midst of a worldwide pandemic bike boom. Models shown on the 'net might not be available/might have 14-month waiting lists/might be officially discontinued as soon as they sell that last 42cm frame in the warehouse.

Does the New Albion Privateer still exist?
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Old 03-11-21, 04:13 PM
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I second the suggestion to look for used, maybe even vintage, depending on your preferences. Lots of great canti brake bikes out there in good condition and often underpriced precisely because they donít have discs.

The Surly LHTs seem to still command a premium for some reason, but other comparable bikes often do not.

PS it looks like Fuji still sells their touring bike in a rim brake version if you want something new

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Old 03-11-21, 04:24 PM
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Does the New Albion Privateer still exist?
Apparently it does.
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Old 03-11-21, 04:28 PM
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If your bike breaks down in the middle of Kazakhstan it would be hard to find those exotic rim brake parts.
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Old 03-11-21, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut
it looks like Fuji still sells their touring bike in a rim brake version if you want something new
I checked for that on the Fuji USA site already but only saw the QR-disc version there.
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