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Questions about GAP/C&O Canal

Old 05-07-21, 05:59 AM
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AMoney
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Questions about GAP/C&O Canal

I'm thinking about touring the Great Allegheny Passage and C&O Canal in a few weeks. I have a few questions:
  1. I know that a lot of the campsites are nearby active railroads. I'm trying to avoid these campsites. Which campsites are NOT near noisy campsites? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that on the Great Allegheny Passage, it might not be be possible to find such sites. On these sections, I might bike to campgrounds that are several miles off the trail.
  2. Do the hiker/biker campsites have reliable water? Or should I plan on bringing my own water to each campsite?
  3. Do any of the campsites reach capacity in mid-May
Thanks!
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Old 05-07-21, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AMoney View Post
nearby active railroads.
We didn't camp, but stayed in B&Bs, and still heard the train the whole time! Think of it as paying your dues for having the GAP, if it weren't for the redundant rail lines, there probably would not be a GAP. For what its worth it's often on the other side of a river, but you still hear it up & down the valleys.

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Old 05-07-21, 06:52 AM
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On the GAP, the camp sites we stay at often that are away from train are Outflow campground in Confluence, and Trail Inn & Camp in Frostburg (food/restaurants in walking distance for both). Ohiopyle state park camp is also away from train, but well off the trail and a big climb up (not recommended). Mid May nothing is full.
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Old 05-07-21, 07:19 AM
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I did a fair bit of research on both trails in prep for our riding them in September.

With respect to water...I ran into a few discussions (here on BF and elsewhere) that mentioned the lack of pump handles on the wells at C&O hiker-biker campsites. Some said it was due to covid last year...one post on a forum(not on BF, but I can't remember where) said the guy talked to a ranger at one of the sites and he said the pump handles were being removed due to water quality(failing testing protocol..bacteria I suppose?). I can't guarantee this is a fact..just what I read on a forum..so that makes it a 50/50 chance(?). In any event, if one arrives at a campsite and the water pump has no handle..it doesn't matter why a that point.

We'll be riding with a mix of mostly camping and a couple nights with a roof over our head. For the one night we'll be camping on the C&O we're planning on having sufficient water on the bike for the night & following morning. We'll carry a Sawyer water filter as a backup.
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Old 05-07-21, 07:28 AM
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Yea! An excuse to post the video I shot while camping at Husky Haven in Rockwood in the early 2010s. Wait for it! Thatís Amtrakís Capitol Limited you hear. I was there again last September. Train traffic dies down at night, and overall there are now fewer freight trains because CSXT is running longer ones. My first time there 3 came through between 5:30 and 6:15. I had a long day to Bedford, PA, so I was already awake.

The above is correct. Outflow is not noisy as the line is on the other side of town, and Ohiopyle isnít well off the line. Connelsville is the same. Also, no train noise at the campground/hostel up the hill in Frostburg. If you camp at the YMCA in Cumberland there is one train that comes through around 6:30 or so. Itís mentioned in the Yís camping information. Rockwood is noisy because there are at least two grade crossing in town where the horns must be sounded.


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Old 05-07-21, 11:59 AM
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My knowledge is somewhat dated, I was there 8 years ago. We stayed at a campground run by the YMCA in Cumberland, it was next to the train track. There were a few trains but it was not enough of a concern to make me want to avoid it if I went back. And because it was convenient to restaurants, if I went back I would probably want to stay there.

You can see a train on the right side of the photo.

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Old 05-07-21, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
My knowledge is somewhat dated, I was there 8 years ago. We stayed at a campground run by the YMCA in Cumberland, it was next to the train track. There were a few trains but it was not enough of a concern to make me want to avoid it if I went back. And because it was convenient to restaurants, if I went back I would probably want to stay there.

You can see a train on the right side of the photo.
I stayed there in 2017. Itís not near the CSXT main line so traffic is minimal. And no horns. I was up by the time the morning train came through. No traffic the night before. The people running the Y were very nice. When the building is open you can use the bathroom and showers.
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Old 05-08-21, 04:03 PM
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Thanks for the information! I have a few more questions:
  1. I looked at maps of the campground in Frostburg and the campsite at the YMCA in Cumberland. I know that both are in populated area. Are they quiet at night? If not, what sounds do you hear at night?
  2. I have a touring bike with 700 x 32 slick touring tires. I have some hardback 700 x 35 cyclocross tires that I normally use for gravel and touring. Most of my touring has been on road. Would anyone recommend putting on a cross tire on just the front or the front and back? The reason I ask is because while the cross tire would have better grip I'm not sure it would be as durable with a heavy load. I'm not too concerned about putting a cross tire on the front because I only use rear panniers and strap my tent to the rack. If you think that I would be fine with slicks in both front and back then I won't change tires.
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Old 05-08-21, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AMoney View Post
Thanks for the information! I have a few more questions:
  1. I looked at maps of the campground in Frostburg and the campsite at the YMCA in Cumberland. I know that both are in populated area. Are they quiet at night? If not, what sounds do you hear at night?
  2. I have a touring bike with 700 x 32 slick touring tires. I have some hardback 700 x 35 cyclocross tires that I normally use for gravel and touring. Most of my touring has been on road. Would anyone recommend putting on a cross tire on just the front or the front and back? The reason I ask is because while the cross tire would have better grip I'm not sure it would be as durable with a heavy load. I'm not too concerned about putting a cross tire on the front because I only use rear panniers and strap my tent to the rack. If you think that I would be fine with slicks in both front and back then I won't change tires.
Cumberland YMCA, after eight years my memory is poor but I think that site was quiet. Nobody else was camped there at that time. Checking the date of teh photo (May 11,2013), I stayed there Fri night and left Sat morning. It is across the street from the Y. There is a roofed structure with picnic tables, I do not know how often that is used, it was raining hard when we were there so we packed up under the structure in the morning.

We had several days of rain, I had 50mm tires, my two partners had 35mm and 47mm wide tires. Each of us was happy with our choice. The guy with 35mm tires had four panniers, as I did.

If you only run two panniers in back, your front tire might not have much weight on it, it might be a good idea to put a tire on there that had some tread in case the ground was wet. It does not take long to change a tire, I would go ahead and do that. I do not recall any slippery wet ground, but my tires had weight on them in front and rear.




I assume you know that one of the tunnels is long and you have to walk through it with your own light.



I suspect security has changed since I was there:



With Covid, I have no clue what sort of eating establishments there are that are open, or if the Y is open. You might want to call the Y and ask as many questions as you can think of.
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Old 05-09-21, 06:53 AM
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The Y camping is along a road, but there was no traffic noise at night and little traffic during a Friday afternoon.

The camping area at the inn in Frostburg was quiet. However, once you get to the inn the camping area is up a steep ramp. Be prepared to unload you gear and make a couple of trips or suffer. I thought I was going to pull a muscle pushing the loaded bike up that ramp. No way was I going to try to control it fully loaded the next morning. Carried my bags down then walked back up for the bike.
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Old 05-09-21, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AMoney View Post
Thanks for the information! I have a few more questions:
  1. I looked at maps of the campground in Frostburg and the campsite at the YMCA in Cumberland. I know that both are in populated area. Are they quiet at night? If not, what sounds do you hear at night?
  2. I have a touring bike with 700 x 32 slick touring tires. I have some hardback 700 x 35 cyclocross tires that I normally use for gravel and touring. Most of my touring has been on road. Would anyone recommend putting on a cross tire on just the front or the front and back? The reason I ask is because while the cross tire would have better grip I'm not sure it would be as durable with a heavy load. I'm not too concerned about putting a cross tire on the front because I only use rear panniers and strap my tent to the rack. If you think that I would be fine with slicks in both front and back then I won't change tires.
Mostly you will hear the rain on your tent, since you are touring the highlands in May. You will have fenders? There is a surface difference GAP versus C&O. Most any tire is fine on GAP. You'll want something wide for wet May on the poorer surface of the C&O.
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Old 05-09-21, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IPassGas View Post
Mostly you will hear the rain on your tent, since you are touring the highlands in May. You will have fenders? There is a surface difference GAP versus C&O. Most any tire is fine on GAP. You'll want something wide for wet May on the poorer surface of the C&O.
I'm planning on using a 700 x 35 hardpack cross tire in the front and a 700 x 32 slick touring tire in the back. Do you think that these widths will be fine for the C&O Canal? I asked this above but do you think that I should also run a hardpack in the back or will I be ok with a slick?
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Old 05-09-21, 09:35 AM
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I would not ride slick anything. The GAP is not always great. Surface conditions vary in different parts. And things can get messy if you get caught in a heavy rain like I did last September about 5 miles north of Rockwood. My first time I rode Conti Top Contact II tires. 32c. They have an inverted tread. (The rest of the tour was on-road after the GAP.)The other times I used the 37c version.
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Old 05-09-21, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I would not ride slick anything. The GAP is not always great. Surface conditions vary in different parts. And things can get messy if you get caught in a heavy rain like I did last September about 5 miles north of Rockwood. My first time I rode Conti Top Contact II tires. 32c. They have an inverted tread. (The rest of the tour was on-road after the GAP.)The other times I used the 37c version.
To clarify, I was thinking about running the Vittoria Randonneur 700 x 32 (stock tire) in the rear which has an inverted tread. I could swap out for a Kenda Small Block 700 x 35 that I have for cyclocross. Which tire would you reccomend?
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Old 05-09-21, 11:44 AM
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I just rode the C&O and GAP on 700x40 Marathon Supremes. They are pretty much slicks. The C&O was dry, so problem. Many sections that were notoriously muddy have been resurfaced and are in great shape. It rained a lot on the GAP. A couple slick spots, but mostly tons of fine grit on everything. Bring fenders. I don’t think a knobby tire would have made a difference. Just keep an eye on the trail and coast straight through anything that looks sketchy.

As far as trains are concerned, ear plugs are a great way to cut the noise. Many places on the C&O have tracks across the river, so you don’t even know they are there until a train rolls through. The GAP has trains along much of the route. You’ll get used to it.

Currently near Cleveland. Rode the Montour Trail, Panhandle Trail, Conotton Creek Trail and O&E Trail. More trains along the way. Just part of life if you want to follow rail/canal routes. Far better than mixing it up with cars.

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Old 05-10-21, 04:59 PM
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On the C&O Canal, I'm thinking about staying at the following sites:
  1. Devil's Alley
  2. Big Woods
  3. Swains Lock
I know that these campsites have pumps but are they operational now? If not, are there nearby streams that I can use water from after I purify it? I assume that using water from the Potomac wouldn't be a good idea even if it were treated. I'm hoping not to have to carry water into campsites.
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Old 05-10-21, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post

Flashbacks of the conditions I encountered in 2008. My panniers are still stained from that mud!
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Old 05-10-21, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Cumberland YMCA, after eight years my memory is poor but I think that site was quiet. Nobody else was camped there at that time. Checking the date of teh photo (May 11,2013), I stayed there Fri night and left Sat morning. It is across the street from the Y. There is a roofed structure with picnic tables, I do not know how often that is used, it was raining hard when we were there so we packed up under the structure in the morning.

With Covid, I have no clue what sort of eating establishments there are that are open, or if the Y is open. You might want to call the Y and ask as many questions as you can think of.
The Y has a lot of information about camping on its website. IIRC, it was open back in September. Technically, you are not supposed to set up camp before a certain time in case the area is being used for an event. But I think they are flexible.

MD was pretty lax about restrictions even back then. I ate out indoors in Cumberland and stayed in the Fairfield Inn right near the beginning of the C&O so I could do laundry. Note that many of the independent restaurants are closed on Mondays. Walked a good ways to a Mexican place.

The official C&O website usually has information about water availability at the various campgrounds.
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Old 05-10-21, 06:38 PM
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You’re better off bringing water with you. The pump handles are in on the C&O, but the water is treated with iodine and tastes bad. Plenty of places along the way to refill bottles. If riding in hot weather, bring a couple spare bottles of water in your panniers. I tried cleaning my bike at Roundbottom on the GAP, and the pump water was muddy. Worked fine for cleaning, but that’s about it.
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Old 05-12-21, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
Youíre better off bringing water with you. The pump handles are in on the C&O, but the water is treated with iodine and tastes bad. Plenty of places along the way to refill bottles. If riding in hot weather, bring a couple spare bottles of water in your panniers. I tried cleaning my bike at Roundbottom on the GAP, and the pump water was muddy. Worked fine for cleaning, but thatís about it.
I haven't been there in ages, but some water on the C& O was okay and other place it was terrible. It was such that you could stock up and carry extra from the good pumps and skip the bad ones back then. If the pump handles are on, I'd guess it is the same now.
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Old 05-12-21, 01:44 PM
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Scroll down for details on water availability:

https://www.nps.gov/choh/planyourvisit/conditions.htm
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Old 05-13-21, 08:20 AM
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Water on the GAP is no real problem. On C&O, “working" pumps don’t always work so carry extra as there are some long stretches. We carry 3 bottles and top off often. The Y "camp" in Cumberland is right next to the tracks but most other places weren't bad. You can hear trains from miles away so it's a hard thing to escape. Yes, Ohiopyle State Campground is a steep uphill climb but takes less than 10 minutes to push a loaded bike up. Nice place. You shouldn’t have any problems with sites in May. The GAP - C&O is one of our favorite trails and a beauty.
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Old 05-14-21, 05:33 AM
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I am really glad that I am not bothered by train or traffic noise. When I read about the terrible places where folks couldn't sleep because the trucks or trains constantly woke them up I usually think back and just remember a good night's sleep. Many times after reading how terrible a site was, I have asked a travelling companion: "Do you remember camping at X location? A:" Yeah". Q:"Did the trains keep you awake?" A:"Nope, slept like a baby."

When I think of all the places I have blissfully camped close to highway or train tracks I wonder how many of them must have sucked but many people's standards.

Those who don't share my tolerance for train noise may want to pack ear plugs for many site along this route.
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Old 05-17-21, 06:29 PM
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I remember camping by the road in the Dismal Swamp. When semis went by, you could feel the ground wiggle a little.
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Old 05-18-21, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I am really glad that I am not bothered by train or traffic noise. When I read about the terrible places where folks couldn't sleep because the trucks or trains constantly woke them up I usually think back and just remember a good night's sleep. Many times after reading how terrible a site was, I have asked a travelling companion: "Do you remember camping at X location? A:" Yeah". Q:"Did the trains keep you awake?" A:"Nope, slept like a baby."

When I think of all the places I have blissfully camped close to highway or train tracks I wonder how many of them must have sucked but many people's standards.
We lost a day to a group that started the Trans Am with us until we passed Mineral, VA. We both camped behind the fire station, perhaps 100 yards from the railroad crossing They were terribly bothered by the trains coming through all night, to the point that they rode a dozen miles to a B&B to get some rest. We heard a train before bedtime and another when we woke up, well rested, and caught up with them a couple days later. Either CSX paused train service for a night or we slept through all the rest of the trains!
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