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RWGPS Paved/Unpaved Modality

Old 08-19-21, 02:23 PM
  #26  
robow
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jamawani, I personally am glad you brought this up. I was recently creating a couple maps for a Labor Day club ride and noticed errors in the pavement type and had no idea where that misinformation came from. I simply changed modes but it did have me scratching my head.
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Old 08-19-21, 02:51 PM
  #27  
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As far as I can tell, the only decent source of data about which roads are dirt and which are paved is county road maps, and they often can be hard to get in print and forget on-line, the counties don't do that. Really and for a lot of rural area's where the roads are dirt, it's the county (or sometimes local town) that decides whether to lay asphalt or not. The counties are also deciding all the time to make what has been a dirt road, into a paved road.

None of the on-line map companies and websites are able to keep up with this, neither is Google satellite in my experience.
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Old 08-26-21, 10:58 AM
  #28  
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I'm on a tour in Vermont right now and noticed the added feature to RWGPS last week. Seems like a nice feature to have even if it isn't 100% accurate. Google maps and paper maps aren't 100% accurate either. Just par for the course.

Tomorrow's route is looking to be about 75% paved and 25% unpaved. If it turns out to be 70/30 or 80/20 it's not a big deal. Not sure why the OP is upset.
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Old 08-27-21, 12:43 PM
  #29  
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NN - You've already answered the question.
You don't mind riding on unpaved - whether it's 20%, 25% or 30% doesn't matter.
But really, that's hardly any difference.

I tour with unpaved sections most of the time.
But people with skinny tires or people who are new to riding -
may not be comfortable on gravel.

For them it would be an unpleasant surprise - even dangerous.
An inexperienced rider could have a tough fall on gravel. Esp. loaded down.
If they were looking for an all-paved route - the app errors might make it more difficult.

And - no - state DOT maps have very few errors on their county road maps.
I know because I have been using them for decades.
The RWGPS app has errors on nearly every one of the routes I have developed over the years.
It may be a good idea - - just not yet.
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Old 08-28-21, 07:18 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
NN - You've already answered the question.
You don't mind riding on unpaved - whether it's 20%, 25% or 30% doesn't matter.
But really, that's hardly any difference.

I tour with unpaved sections most of the time.
But people with skinny tires or people who are new to riding -
may not be comfortable on gravel.

For them it would be an unpleasant surprise - even dangerous.
An inexperienced rider could have a tough fall on gravel. Esp. loaded down.
If they were looking for an all-paved route - the app errors might make it more difficult.

And - no - state DOT maps have very few errors on their county road maps.
I know because I have been using them for decades.
The RWGPS app has errors on nearly every one of the routes I have developed over the years.
It may be a good idea - - just not yet.
For those people who aren't able to ride on unpaved roads at all then any digital mapping service might not be for them. Unless you know of a service that uses up to date digitized DOT maps. Those people might just want to stick to Adventure Cycling maps, which have at least been vetted and indicate if there's any off road riding. For the rest of us, the additional info added to RWGPS, even if flawed, is a nice feature.
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Old 08-29-21, 03:55 PM
  #31  
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I did three quick test routes that I know.
All have errors. All county-maintained roads.
Test2 errors are a glitch in the app.
Test1 & Test3 have errors on about half the miles.
YMMV

Test2 - Montana - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331140
Test1 - Wyoming - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331091
Test3 - Kansas - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331235
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Old 08-29-21, 05:32 PM
  #32  
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People are editing the Open Street Map data that ridewithgps uses, tagging the unpaved roads.
But locally at least, people are marking roads that were being resurfaced as unpaved/gravel. That's not helpful, but then they aren't removing the tag after the smooth new pavement is done. Grrr.

I'll take a brief look at the "unpaved" parts of my routes if I'm not familiar with the route, but I don't expect it to be accurate.
gravelmap.com works great for avoiding the few gravel roads near here.
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Old 08-30-21, 03:27 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
The image is from 2009 but it's clearly unpaved east of Thurlow (the "town" just south).

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2958...8!8i1664?hl=en

Openstreet map the road to the west of the intersection is classified as "tertiary". The road to the east is classified as "minor/unclassified" all the way to MT59 (north of the airport).

Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
The image is from 2007 but 13th Street and Republic Road are clearly unpaved.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0660...8!8i1664?hl=en

13th Street west of Wellman road is tagged as "gravel" in OSM. RWGPS shows a short "paved" section west of the bridge. This is odd. It seems it's the paved bridge section misplaced.

Buckcreek Road is classified as gravel from 13 Street to 35th Street. E 1500 Road (west of the airport) is classified as gravel.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-30-21 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 08-30-21, 03:36 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
The image is from 2009 but it's clearly unpaved east of Thurlow (the "town" just south).

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2958...8!8i1664?hl=en

Openstreet map the road to the west of the intersection is classified as "tertiary". The road to the east is classified as "minor/unclassified".

I taught. lived, and rode there.
Openstreet may "say" one thing, but they are county roads.

That reminds me of electric company reps three states away.
You entire side of town is in the dark and they say,
"My readout shows there there is no outage."

The Test2 Montana is generally correct -
But the app has these little short stretches indicated as unpaved.
I believe it may have to do where an unpaved road meets a paved road.
Not sure - but it shows up in most other maps with any unpaved segments.
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Old 08-30-21, 04:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
I taught. lived, and rode there.
Openstreet may "say" one thing, but they are county roads.
So what?

Do you expect RWGPS to survey every road every year?

OSM's data is out-of-date in some places. Google's data isn't much better in these locations.

What mapping service indicates the correct surface? If it's local (county level), it wouldn't be practical for RWGPS to negotiate with every county in the US to get the latest data. And there's no guarantee that the data is provided by every county in a common or usable format.

Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
It's lousy and inaccurate - and users received no notice beforehand.
Turn off the "surfaces" setting. Then, it will be as accurate/inaccurate as it was before. Simple.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-30-21 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 08-30-21, 04:32 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
People are editing the Open Street Map data that ridewithgps uses, tagging the unpaved roads.
But locally at least, people are marking roads that were being resurfaced as unpaved/gravel. That's not helpful, but then they aren't removing the tag after the smooth new pavement is done. Grrr.
Yeah, this isn't really the correct way to update OSM (it's kind of irresponsible).
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Old 08-30-21, 04:36 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
So what?
Do you expect RWGPS to survey every road?
Does the "NJ" stand for New Jersey?

You know, I'm also a classical pianist and have studied most of Debussy's Preludes, Book 1.
If someone were to ask me about how to play a prelude from Book 2, I would say,
"I'm not that familiar with the preludes in Book 2."

You do realize that one does not have to indicate surface status for every road if it isn't known, eh?
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Old 08-30-21, 04:51 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
You do realize that one does not have to indicate surface status for every road if it isn't known, eh?
Do you realize maps don't get updated frequently?

In any case, it is technically known (the OSM data shows it as unpaved/gravel). The data is just out-of-date. Which is a regular occurrence for map data.

The odd segments at intersections is a different issue. It looks like RWGPS might have a fix for this in the pipeline.

If you don't want the surfaces distinguished, turn the feature off.

Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
You know, I'm also a classical pianist and have studied most of Debussy's Preludes, Book 1.
If someone were to ask me about how to play a prelude from Book 2, I would say,
"I'm not that familiar with the preludes in Book 2."
???

I guess this is suggesting that I can't talk about map issues in places not in NJ?

The problems you are talking about are general map issues. You don't have to be from Kansas to understand them.

=======================

RWGPS is showing what OSM says about the surface. In the same way that it shows what OSM (or Google) says where the roads are located.

Last edited by njkayaker; 08-30-21 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 08-31-21, 08:39 AM
  #39  
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mhhhhh I don't get the discussion ....

enjoy your ride,

important that you plan your route on small little tarmac roads or (in my case) unpaved gravel roads ....

that's it, more or less of it I don't care, IMPORTANT do not plan on NATIONAL roads or other BIG stuff with lots of motorised TRAFFIC.

remember when we used paper maps? ))))
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Old 09-08-21, 04:18 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
I did three quick test routes that I know.
All have errors. All county-maintained roads.
Test2 errors are a glitch in the app.
Test1 & Test3 have errors on about half the miles.
YMMV

Test2 - Montana - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331140
Test1 - Wyoming - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331091
Test3 - Kansas - https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37331235

...fyi..a link posted on a google mapping thread n the General Discussion forum

https://ridewithgps.com/help/edit-routing-data
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Old 09-09-21, 08:14 AM
  #41  
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I scanned through this thread as I use RWGPS some also. I noticed the dashed lines show up and didn't think much of it. Thanks for the details in the thread - now it all makes sense.

For what it is worth, I got on to RWGPS planning a trip a couple years ago (I had some glitches in getting up and running with it, there is a thread or two I had on it in the electronics forum - if anyone is reading this and is having challenges getting the files in to a Garmin unit - look up those threads - I hammered through the file set up and import, if I recall correctly).

The biggest help I have found with RWGPS on trip planning is steering around roads and getting a reality check on elevation. I was able to trim several miles of road out of a ~20 mile starting run to my south starting point of the Ohio to Erie (where I access it). The route loops through several local public and metro park trail networks that, otherwise, I wouldn't have found. It is a lot of knitting through the trails - but that was what was precisely what RWGPS allowed me to route through.

Good stuff. Get creative, think outside the box, and keep options - especially on tour.

There was a guy I ran in to several years ago that told me about "quarter tours". Their group would ride a road to a dead end, or where they couldn't go any further, then flip a quarter. Heads turn right, tails turn left. When I think of "thinking outside the box" on tour - I think that takes the cake. Needless to say, RWGPS gives you quite the opposite of the quarter flip. Although, I do admit, it would be interesting some day to do a "quarter tour".
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Old 09-14-21, 02:26 PM
  #42  
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I received a marketing email today from RWGPS with a link to a description of the Surface Types feature. It looks like you're able to correct the surface type in your route if you know that what's displayed is incorrect. The article also gives a link to make permanent updates to OpenStreetMap if you want to contribute to the accuracy of the dataset.

All in all, this is a great feature that will only get better as more people use it.
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Old 09-15-21, 07:47 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by niknak View Post
I received a marketing email today from RWGPS with a link to a description of the Surface Types feature. It looks like you're able to correct the surface type in your route if you know that what's displayed is incorrect. The article also gives a link to make permanent updates to OpenStreetMap if you want to contribute to the accuracy of the dataset.

All in all, this is a great feature that will only get better as more people use it.
IOW, we're crowdsourcing this thing. Please give us information for free that we'll turn around and re-sell back to you.

I'm more likely just to turn this "feature" off.
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Old 09-15-21, 08:45 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
IOW, we're crowdsourcing this thing. Please give us information for free that we'll turn around and re-sell back to you.

I'm more likely just to turn this "feature" off.
You can still make surface type changes to your routes if you want. It won't permanently affect the base maps because RWGPS doesn't own OpenStreetMap. You don't have to contribute to OpenStreetMap. Not sure why you'd want to turn a feature off that adds more customization to the routes you make, but you do you.
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Old 09-15-21, 09:21 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
IOW, we're crowdsourcing this thing. Please give us information for free that we'll turn around and re-sell back to you.


RWGPS has always displayed OSM data (crowdsourced data). Now, it's just displaying additional data from OSM.

RWGPS isn't charging more or requiring you to add the information.

RWGPS also provides a free subscription.

Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I'm more likely just to turn this "feature" off.
Turn the feature off and things will be exactly like they were before.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-15-21 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-15-21, 04:27 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
IOW, we're crowdsourcing this thing. Please give us information for free that we'll turn around and re-sell back to you.

I'm more likely just to turn this "feature" off.
RWGPS does offer quite a bit of value add to a basic OSM map. I don't think it's out of line to charge a fee. Their free subscription and its capabilities is a downright gift to anyone that would like to sign up. No idea why folks have such angst with RWGPS. If it's an issue..fortunately for them there's always some other option.
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