Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

RWGPS Paved/Unpaved Modality

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

RWGPS Paved/Unpaved Modality

Old 08-17-21, 11:50 PM
  #1  
jamawani 
Hooked on Touring
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,738
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 59 Posts
RWGPS Paved/Unpaved Modality

Just discovered today that RWGPS has implemented a new paved/unpaved modality.
It is automatically implemented in all maps - current & previous - with dotted lines.
It's lousy and inaccurate - and users received no notice beforehand.

The problem when you have any program which locks you in -
Is that it is difficult to transport out your files.
Because they are unique to that program.

But I am very disappointed in RWGPS.
Again.
jamawani is offline  
Likes For jamawani:
Old 08-18-21, 12:54 AM
  #2  
mschwett 
pretty much a newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 548

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 188 Posts
i noticed this as well, or rather noticed that it was not accurate initially. one obvious paved segment which was mis-categorized has now been fixed.

personally, i think it's a useful feature. i like to know when i'm going to be going off-road. also, it's VERY easily turned off. one click and it's gone from the map, another and it's gone from the elevation profile. it's also very clearly explained.

https://ridewithgps.com/help/surface-types

mschwett is online now  
Old 08-18-21, 12:57 AM
  #3  
jamawani 
Hooked on Touring
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,738
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 59 Posts
For many people it may be nice.
But I have hundreds of routes filed - some for cycling organizations -
And I should not have to go back and "fix" all of them.
jamawani is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 04:46 AM
  #4  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33,850
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15379 Post(s)
Liked 9,155 Times in 4,524 Posts
I noticed the same thing two days ago. Wildly inaccurate. It showed paved that I have ridden on countless times as being unpaved. And Iím not talking rural roads.

I think it would be very useful if it were accurate, but how do I know if an unpaved road is being accurately presented as such if it inaccurately represents paved roads?

Last edited by indyfabz; 08-18-21 at 04:50 AM.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 04:50 AM
  #5  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,471

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata drop bar conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(purchased new), '88 GT Tequesta(purchased new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 drop bar conv

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 473 Times in 280 Posts
Exporting files from RWGPS is easy..in KML, GPX..etc standardized file formats. In those formats you can take them anywhere and use them. A bulk export would be nice, but exports are only one at a time as far as I know.
fishboat is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 04:56 AM
  #6  
jpescatore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ashton, MD USA
Posts: 1,217

Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Disc, Jamis Renegade

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 261 Times in 191 Posts
Just did a group ride this past Saturday, downloaded the RWGPS .gpx file the ride leader posted and magically many roads had turned into dirt/gravel roads. Didn't really impact anything - these were all roads I know. I'm sure they will rectify the problem, not planning on using RWGPS to go any route planning until they do.
jpescatore is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:01 AM
  #7  
John N
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 381

Bikes: Co-Motion Americano Pinion P18; Co-Motion Americano Rohloff (stolen), Thorn Nomad MkII, Robert Beckman Skakkit (FOR SALE), Santana Tandem, ICE Adventure FS

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 35 Posts
I don't seem to have it the new "feature" on all my routes

I have the free version. I looked at my settings and the "Surfaces" line is missing on some routes. Some of the newest created routes are non-Surfaces but almost all of the older ones are Surfaces. Go figure.

I have noticed also that if you use the "Map" map setting instead of the "RWGPS" map setting, it doesn't show the various surfaces. It looks like they have maybe tried to incorporate some of OSM Cycle map's look.
John N is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:14 AM
  #8  
John N
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 381

Bikes: Co-Motion Americano Pinion P18; Co-Motion Americano Rohloff (stolen), Thorn Nomad MkII, Robert Beckman Skakkit (FOR SALE), Santana Tandem, ICE Adventure FS

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
....how do I know if an unpaved road is being accurately presented as such if it inaccurately represents paved roads?
I just always cross reference Google's satellite view if in doubt. Except for areas of the country that use a more bluish/black gravel (like the Palouse area of Washington) I can almost always tell if it is gravel or pavement by either the color and/or if there are tell-tale signs, i.e. tar cracks, patterns in the road, a change of color from side streets, etc. Sure it would be nice if the maps were totally accurate but many times the underlying map data from the state government is wildly out of date.
John N is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:28 AM
  #9  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33,850
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15379 Post(s)
Liked 9,155 Times in 4,524 Posts
Originally Posted by John N View Post
I just always cross reference Google's satellite view if in doubt. Except for areas of the country that use a more bluish/black gravel (like the Palouse area of Washington) I can almost always tell if it is gravel or pavement by either the color and/or if there are tell-tale signs, i.e. tar cracks, patterns in the road, a change of color from side streets, etc. Sure it would be nice if the maps were totally accurate but many times the underlying map data from the state government is wildly out of date.
I know how to check. My question was somewhat rhetorical.

Here is day one of a tri[ I have planned for next month. Looks like it got most of it correct, but there is definitely one mistake. That first section shown as unpaved is 100%$ paved. I rode it three years ago.

[url=https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37033501]Dashboard ∑ Ride with GPS

The map for Day 2 as at least one mistake. If you look at Street View where one road meets another, one of the road I will be riding looks unpaved. But if you switch to Satellite View you can clearly see that it's paved and even has a median stripe.

Last edited by indyfabz; 08-18-21 at 07:36 AM.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:44 AM
  #10  
mibike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I think this will be nice once the data is better. After finding this I've been updating all ore club routes. I've also been updating OSM for the roads I know the surface type of. See https://ridewithgps.com/help/edit-routing-data
mibike is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 08:02 AM
  #11  
John N
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 381

Bikes: Co-Motion Americano Pinion P18; Co-Motion Americano Rohloff (stolen), Thorn Nomad MkII, Robert Beckman Skakkit (FOR SALE), Santana Tandem, ICE Adventure FS

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 35 Posts
Again, to me RWGPS is just using the crappy data that is out there, just like OSM Cycle does. Yes, I wish the data was accuate but if it is their sources that are bad. They are only showing what was given to them. If you don't like the new look ( I don't either), just unclick Surfaces and use the Map map method.
John N is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 09:16 AM
  #12  
mschwett 
pretty much a newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 548

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 188 Posts
i generally like RWGPS, except for a few very annoying bugs in the app that they havenít been able to fix. their support was very responsive and professional but ultimately unhelpful. as a result i really only use it for route planning and visualizing upcoming elevation profiles while riding.

i donít entirely trust their interpretation of roads and trails, so i do usually run a quick common sense check, or if iím really not sure about an area, iíll switch it to vehicular routing and make it show me definitively public paved roads.

i fail to understand how anything is lost with the new data - itís not like it somehow prevents you from making the route, riding the route, etc. if you donít trust or like the data just ignore it? does it actually damage the route data somehow? i looked at a dozen of my old routes on the phone app and they look exactly the same.
mschwett is online now  
Old 08-18-21, 11:55 AM
  #13  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33,850
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15379 Post(s)
Liked 9,155 Times in 4,524 Posts
For one, I can see someone blindly trusting it and avoiding roads listed as unpaved which are, in fact, paved. (As we know, not every paved road is available to check out on Street View, and satellite imagery can be inconclusive.)

Interestingly, this afternoon I looked at another route I mapped out maybe a month or so ago. It now shows a random 0.3 mile stretch somewhere in the middle of of an 8 mil road segment as unpaved when it's not. I am curious to know how something like that happens. It's not like it was paved any time recently. I think I first traversed that road by car 45 years ago on the way to a week down the Jersey shore.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 01:24 PM
  #14  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 7,443

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1847 Post(s)
Liked 1,106 Times in 701 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Interestingly, this afternoon I looked at another route I mapped out maybe a month or so ago. It now shows a random 0.3 mile stretch somewhere in the middle of of an 8 mil road segment as unpaved when it's not. I am curious to know how something like that happens. It's not like it was paved any time recently.
I've started informally calling some of my fair city's streets "allegedly paved." Maybe somebody heard me and decided streets and roads like that are now unpaved?

pdlamb is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 01:26 PM
  #15  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33,850
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15379 Post(s)
Liked 9,155 Times in 4,524 Posts
If only it were that. Just rode it a few weeks ago. Smooth as ever.

Now I am curious to check my other mapped routes.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 02:14 PM
  #16  
mschwett 
pretty much a newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 548

Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 188 Posts
whatever the data set is, it has some very random little glitches.

somehow this one partial segment of downtown city street is unpaved.

mschwett is online now  
Old 08-18-21, 08:25 PM
  #17  
jamawani 
Hooked on Touring
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,738
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 59 Posts
It's beginning to look like another Edsel roll-out.
jamawani is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 09:36 PM
  #18  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,280

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3300 Post(s)
Liked 1,241 Times in 917 Posts
Personally, I'm in awe at the excellence of RWGPS. I planned an entire 2 week tour in the Czech Republic with it, and the data was flawless, though it's always possible to be confused or taken aback when things don't look like you expected. I have hundreds of routes planned with it. If I want to check out if a road is gravel, I zoom in using Satellite view. That works well IME. I'll leave Surfaces turned off, no need for it. It's remarkable how well it can estimate my riding time for a new route.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 05:56 AM
  #19  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,471

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata drop bar conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(purchased new), '88 GT Tequesta(purchased new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 drop bar conv

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 473 Times in 280 Posts
Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
It's beginning to look like another Edsel roll-out.
Well..if RWGPS is a such total disappointment..there are a dozen or two other applications you can use..for free..pick one and go. That'll shown'em..or develop your own system and do it the "right way".

I've used RWGPS for years and it's been excellent. So they try something new and it needs some tweaking..not unheard of in the R&D world. They'll figure it out. (It's good to know of the potential for errors..the edsel thing is a bit much..)

Last edited by fishboat; 08-19-21 at 06:00 AM.
fishboat is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 08:25 AM
  #20  
jamawani 
Hooked on Touring
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,738
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Well..if RWGPS is a such total disappointment..there are a dozen or two other applications you can use..for free..pick one and go. That'll shown'em..or develop your own system and do it the "right way".
Hey Fishboat - -

I've been using RWGPS for years - and paying for it, too.
Yes, I can go elsewhere, but as a long-term paying customer, I expect better.
And, no, I shouldn't have to go out and make my own website.
That's what I have been paying for over the years.

At least, that's how the customer service model used to work back in 1958.
Acceptable loss has replaced customer retention -
When marketing discovered that it is cheaper to hustle up new customers that make good.
In addition, Ford couldn't change how your Edsel operated once you bought it back in 1958.
You know - like switching where the brake and gas pedals are.

Forgive me, but I though one of the aspirations of the digital age -
Was more choice, not less.
jamawani is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 09:02 AM
  #21  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,471

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata drop bar conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(purchased new), '88 GT Tequesta(purchased new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 drop bar conv

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 473 Times in 280 Posts
Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
Hey Fishboat - -

I've been using RWGPS for years - and paying for it, too.
Yes, I can go elsewhere, but as a long-term paying customer, I expect better.
And, no, I shouldn't have to go out and make my own website.
That's what I have been paying for over the years.

At least, that's how the customer service model used to work back in 1958.
Acceptable loss has replaced customer retention -
When marketing discovered that it is cheaper to hustle up new customers that make good.
In addition, Ford couldn't change how your Edsel operated once you bought it back in 1958.
You know - like switching where the brake and gas pedals are.

Forgive me, but I though one of the aspirations of the digital age -
Was more choice, not less.
Let's start a petition to regain the CS of 1958..that'll go far. Man screams at cloud..more news at 11!

I worked in RDE for 30+ years. Sometimes, sometimes a launch of something new has unintended consequences. The people in RDE are overwhelming trying to do something valuable and useful..you know..like you think you're doing. Their career isn't based on, "..let's see..how can we hose our customers today!"

Rather than giving them a proctology exam on day 2 of a launch, maybe report the issue to them and wait a bit to see how they handle it? If they ignore the issue a month or two down the line, well, then I suppose it's open season. If they lose business..it's their problem. If you need to go somewhere else..take a deep breath..you might learn something..like exporting files in a generic, industry standard, easily transferrable format.

That said..thanks for making us aware of the issue..though all of us users would have noticed this quite soon anyway. The rest of the (continued) drama..is just... needless drama.

..and the ignore list goes N+1
fishboat is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 09:56 AM
  #22  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 5,457

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2225 Post(s)
Liked 971 Times in 567 Posts
Obviously there are issues with the underlaying data base. It does nothing to show where a paved road transitions to dirt on the section I just checked, Adirondacks, NY
Steve B. is online now  
Old 08-19-21, 11:30 AM
  #23  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,012
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3325 Post(s)
Liked 820 Times in 571 Posts
I think the idea that this feature "ruins" RWGPS is overwrought.

Moving off of RWGPS for this feature seems drastic. And what you move to might end up implementing it too.

It's easy enough to ignore it or turn it off.

I wonder what data they are using and whether they use OSM with the OSM maps.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 08-19-21, 12:05 PM
  #24  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 5,457

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2225 Post(s)
Liked 971 Times in 567 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I

I wonder what data they are using and whether they use OSM with the OSM maps.
Good question. I've only seen one online map data base that does an OK job at showing you what road is gravel/dirt and what's asphalt and that is Gaia GPS. Even there you need to consult the legend to verify road surface as they let you download a lot of different maps, Gaia Topo, USGS Topo, Nat'l Geo, etc... Gravel Maps does some good stuff, but it functions like TrailForks in that a road surface would be indicated as gravel IF somebody road and tracked a ride, then uploaded or traced a route.
Steve B. is online now  
Old 08-19-21, 12:10 PM
  #25  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,012
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3325 Post(s)
Liked 820 Times in 571 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Good question. I've only seen one online map data base that does an OK job at showing you what road is gravel/dirt and what's asphalt and that is Gaia GPS. Even there you need to consult the legend to verify road surface as they let you download a lot of different maps, Gaia Topo, USGS Topo, Nat'l Geo, etc... Gravel Maps does some good stuff, but it functions like TrailForks in that a road surface would be indicated as gravel IF somebody road and tracked a ride, then uploaded or traced a route.
Heck, I wonder where anybody gets the data. Gaia is getting it from somewhere.

​​​​​​At the present, I'd expect this info not to be great.

Focused things like trailforks is probably fine but it's also limited in coverage. Also, the data they have is access limited (unlike info in OSM).
njkayaker is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.