Doug64

IMO, respecting the environment and No Trace camping do not make wild camping acceptable in many situations. It is more about respecting the laws of the country you are a guest in, and respecting private property.

Besides, this might break his budget:
"500 € per person
In the Netherlands, wild camping is strictly forbidden and, unlike in other countries, it is also not permitted to camp on private property. This regulation is strictly enforced in the Netherlands. As a result, wild camping is not possible. If you are caught, you may be fined up to 500 € per person."
Wild camping in the Netherlands

skookum

So even if you have permission it is illegal to camp on private property?

I think Netherlands is a great country for a first bicycle tour, but I wouldn't go in winter.

JaccoW

As someone who lives here I would love it if even half my riding was unpaved. I have to go out of my way to find unpaved cycling paths and many of the hardened shell paths that used to be common are now being paved over with concrete because old people on electric bikes wanted to ride at full speed and kept crashing.
It is more common in the East of the country when riding through country lanes and the natural reserves there.

I love riding in the cold and can even appreciate snow and rain. But I went on a tour last year during lockdown and was miserable. No restaurants and no coffee so my lunch was always eating my food in front of the supermarket outside.
And there are talks of going back into lockdown right now.

imi

Wild camping may well be illegal… as well as taking a pee by the side of the road.

This may be controversial (or lead to a good discussion), but I consider it a human birthright to sleep (and pee) outside in nature as long as it does not disturb anyone or leave a mess.

I do not see myself as a ”guest” in anyone’s made up ”country” but as a human being living for a short while on the earth.

staehpj1 

I hope someone will clarify this. I am wondering the same. If so it seems pretty bizarre to me.

imi

I wonder if this is referring to Sweden where it is legal to camp on private property without permission.

”In the Netherlands, wild camping is strictly forbidden and, unlike in other countries, it is also not permitted to camp on private property.”

djb

I'm sure the issue here isn't peeing by the side of the road, but the fact that Holland is a tiny country, fairly densely populated, with lots of tourists, and it's just trying to keep things in order.

As with most things, using common sense is key.

I do know that in Holland there are simple little free campgrounds along bike paths, I've read of these in the recent past.

imi

Yes, I have never understood the "common sense" of wild camping being illegal.

skookum

I think you might be right, it is a contrast with the "allemannsretten" of some of the Scandinavian countries, that they are trying to emphasize.

djb

here we get into the "in a perfect world vs reality" thing, wild camping included.
I'm sure most of us here are respectful, mature people, who when we need to , or choose to, wild camp, we leave no trace and no one knows we have done it.
The reality is that is a densely populated area, the last thing anyone wants to see is garbage and human kaka and toilet paper left strewn around, which unfortunately, people do.

there are a lot of clueless, don't give a rats arse about this sort of thing people in the world, heck I even see it regularly with toilet paper scattered around areas that are an obvious good pee place.

skookum

Derail here to talk about random camping in Canada.
There has been a lot of controversy the last couple of years about about random camping in the foothills of the Rockies, especially the Municipal District of Bighorn which is located NW of Calgary.
My experience there is that the beautiful places to camp are covered with human excrement. It is really quite disheartening. Rather belatedly they are trying to control the use of the area with fees and porta potties.

I am sure most of us on this forum are capable of camping in such a manner that nobody would ever know we have been there. Its definitely not true of everybody.

I can totally understand why a small densely populated country like the Netherlands would not want people wild camping. Out of respect for the country and its people I would not wild camp even though i know how to do it and leave no trace.

I think it is a great country for a cycle trip, but please respect the land and its people.

imi

I find it so hard to understand what you mean. What has wild camping to do with disrespecting people or nature?

axolotl

Here are the current travel restrictions and rules for visiting Thailand:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/t...-19/index.html

Arrival procedures: https://www.tatnews.org/2021/10/thai...antine-test-go

Basically, if you're fully vaccinated and from various countries including USA, Canada, UK, Australia, & NZ, you can enter, you spend your first night in an approved accommodation while awaiting new test results, and then you're free to travel withing the country assuming a negative test result. One of the requirements is proof of travel health insurance. All in all, their procedures and rules make more sense than most other countries' rules that I've seen for foreign visitors.

You'll have much nicer weather than in the Netherlands, much lower prices, and better food. But there will be virtually no bike paths, and far fewer people who speak English (or Dutch). And it's not as flat as a pancake, like most of the Netherlands is. I did a great loop once out of Chiang Mai, biking along the borders of Myanmar/Burma & Laos. Another time I did a nice route through northern Laos and northern Thailand. In 2 trips, I had just one day of rain total, because it's the dry season in the north. All in all, much better and more reliable weather than I experienced in the Netherlands in midsummer.

Edit: BTW, the Covid new case rate in NL is currently about 3 times higher than in the USA, and going up. Of course, nobody knows what the situation will be anywhere 2 months from now. But as JaccoW wrote in post #28, there is talk of reimposing Covid restrictions in NL. If you're intent on biking somewhere in Europe in January, Portugal or parts of Spain make much more sense for a variety of reasons.

Tourist in MSN

Thank you.

I no longer bother to argue with people that have no respect for rules. In their mind they are always right since rules do not apply to them.

imi

Do you take a pee by the side of the road when touring? If I understand correctly, this is illegal in many states in the USA, and even a sexual offence in some.

It's not that I don't think the rules apply to me. Of course they do, and if caught I will happily pay the fine or whatever for sleeping under the stars on my home planet wherever I happen to be. I've been doing that for over forty years and never been fined, as I'm pretty good at not disturbing people, not leaving a trace, and being polite to police officers on the few occasions they have talked to me.

Do I respect a rule that makes the most natural of human behaviour (sleeping), illegal? No

Tourist in MSN

Pasted:
AMSTERDAM, Nov 11 (Reuters) - The Dutch government on Thursday was considering whether to impose Western Europe's first partial lockdown since the summer, as new coronavirus cases jumped to the highest level since the start of the pandemic.

From: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-experts-recommend-western-europes-first-lockdown-since-summer-2021-11-11/

surlylhtfan

Well, I bought my ticket. A little over 3 weeks there

HobbesOnTour

To where?

djb

Thailand or Holland I guess.
If it's Holland it's going to potentially be rather tricky, depending on the timing.

surlylhtfan

Ha, NL.

djb, why do you say it might be tricky? Covid-lockdown, yes, I can see that then (if that happens I may not go). But I figure if things are not working out weather-wise I can stay at an airbnb in the countryside or smaller town for a week or two, or one of the year-round campgrounds with a kitchen (I'm starting a list going now - would happily take any suggestions).

I've already spent time in Amsterdam and and am not interested in spending much time in cities in general.

I am going for 3 weeks, not 4. I'm going to make sure I'm somewhat 'established' with comfortable camping options for the new years weekend.

Calsun

Do you really enjoy bicycling in the dark? Much of the country has only 2 hours of daylight in November and December. Also two out of three days you will be bicycling in the rain. Better to go to Italy or Spain or even better, to New Zealand.

djb

ya, I was thinking the logistics of a lockdown, ie cafes closed etc. Don't know if you lived through any covid lockdowns but while grocery stores were open (often with restricted numbers of people allowed in at one time, hence waiting in line to get in--I did this a lot at stores last summer, especially during busy hours) its very possible that other stores will be closed, non essential ones.

but you dont say when you are going, so its all a moot point, as situations are fluid. (I reread what you wrote, appears you'll be there at end of Dec)

I hope you have good quality, full rain gear. Not my idea of fun, but its your trip.

imi

About 8 hours of daylight in midwinter, although there are penguins and polar bears.

indyfabz

Correct, but does one need an abominable snowman canister to protect food?

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/neth...erdam?month=12

imi

I think if you just bring your Yeti-Spray™ you’ll be fine