UniChris

Looking for some thoughts on sizing and design of panniers to be used for up to a few days of credit card touring, which would augment the trunk bag I'll be using for day rides.

Went to the shop to try a used road bike (my first ever), came home with a new gravel bike. Hey, it was what I could get now in my size, and I'm more likely to do the occasional canal towpath or dirt road than ever ride in a paceline. Definitely turning in better times than my around town hybrid, getting used to the drop bars and hoping they're easier on my hands than last week's 78 mile ride with a single hand position was. But spent more than I wanted to, so have to stay budget on accessories for now.

Have an upcoming single overnight trip planned - 85 mile paved rail trail (I did it last summer the other direction on a unicycle, but homewards so didn't need to carry much), hop on a train, spend the night with relatives, then do a casual group ride the next day before catching a ride with family driving back my way, so the idea is to sew up some trial panniers that I can use to put the overnight and weather-unpredictability oriented stuff in, then take them off and do the group ride with just the trunk bag that I made by sewing webbing loops for velcro straps to the bottom of a little Walmart tote.

One of the key challenges with a pannier seems to be heel clearance. Borrowed an open top grocery carrier one for contemplation and find that my heel strikes it, though if I moved the attachments forward to move the pannier back, that might work. So one thing I figure I need to do is go tape an empty cardboard box on the rack and try riding around to identify what the forward limit of a pannier is.

Another is stiffeners. I found a pair of inserts from an old dead duffel bag that are 13 x 11 inches, tempting to use those the tall way though worried they'd project off the back of the rack a bit - and I'm illogically hesitant to cut them. Also have some 8.5 x 11 inch 1/8 HDPE cutting boards that seem like they'd make very sturdy bases for a compact bag - though maybe "too small". Part of me is tempted to play it safe structurally by making the little ones, figuring even if I later make bigger they little ones could still be useful now and then for kids jackets on local family rides, or maybe I could figure out a way to put them on the 3 bottle cage style brazeons on each front fork with some sort of bar looping over the tire skipping the need for a true front rack. There is a chance though that if I go with the little ones, the jacket I set off riding in may end up bungeed to the top of the trunk bag in a stuff sack.

If I go with the larger size and the more flexy duffel bag liner pieces, I've considered sewing a diagonal channel into the back to be able to insert an aluminum or even wooden "batten" to keep the lower rear corner in position - though my guess is that the more I stuff in them, the more they'll bulge away from, rather than into, the wheel. If I use the larger pieces, I also wonder about putting a stiffener along the top inside edge to cover how they'd project off the back of the rack.

What about how wide to make them? I'm leaning towards 5 inches, in a boxy shape to keep things simple, if I go with the smaller size maybe I'll go 6 inches wide.

What's going to happen if there's no floor stiffener piece? Weather is predicted to be dry for this first ride, so I've considered cutting some cardboard to stuff in there, maybe putting it in a ziplock bag first just in case.

Attachment is planned to be small loops of webbing at the upper inside edge, through which I can feed parachute cord running over/around the rack as that gives me flexibility to join them or use them singly and position the pannier attachments either side of or interlocking with the trunk bag ones. I'm not going to go with hooks over the rack rail as I figure that doesn't really get me much compared to tying them on, and mine aren't going to project above the top of the rack since the trunk bag overlaps the rack an inch on each side.

Closure wise, what I'm tempted to do is put a horizontal zipper about 1/4 of the way down the side, then back this up with one or two adjustable webbing straps that loop all the way around the bag and rack vertically with the idea that these can be cinched tight for whatever level of fullness there is, and will take the load off the zipper. There will be a flap on the top side that overlaps the zipper - though the goal is water resistance, in a driving rain I'd be counting on the contents being internally bagged.

Fabric is some bright green nylon packcloth I've used backpacks and triangle bags in the past; I'll get a tiny bit of water leakage at the seams so plan on putting clothes in inner bags, but a backpack I previously made out of this was functionally a bucket where water is concerned. Alas it picks up grime that doesn't easily wash out and has faded over several years of sunny rides, but those are problems for the future.

gauvins

Interesting project.

1. I'd avoid a zipper at all cost. Velcro, maybe. Fastex buckles preferably.
2. No need for a bottom insert. Your luggage will do the trick. (Essential on the back, though, to reduce the risk of something getting caught in your spokes)
3. This being said, Ortlieb rollers are the reference. There are occasional bargains on EBay and such. It may not look like it, but robust, waterproof, safe and convenient panniers are a critical component.

mtnbud

Why not consider a bike packing system. Strap a dry bag under the seatpost https://bikepacking.com/plan/bikepac...iy-seat-packs/ and another small one on the handlebars. I bought some "Rockbros" bags because they were inexpensive-ish, but decent quality. I just mocked up some pvc fork brackets after seeing Tihabeneros example.

Here's what I came up with:

Pvc skeleton before cleaning up. The canals are to isolate the zip ties.

A section of innertube streched over the pvc with straps added

The innertube keeps the bracket from sliding.

On the bike. Have tested on pavement, but not offroad yet.

andrewclaus

Before going through that effort, look at the Arkel Dry Lites. They're pretty minimalist and affordable. The back stiffener is a pair of removable dowels, for instance.

My first tours were with various duffel bags and loose gear tied to the handlebars and rear rack, many decades before the term "bikepacking" was invented.

Doug64

I made both sets of panniers for our road bikes. I modeled then after normal size panniers, but made them smaller and with more taper on the front side. They were made out of coated packcloth, with sealed seams they were water resistant. For light road trips they worked well. Our daughters used them for several years, until mom and dad got them each a set of Ortlieb panniers for Christmas.

The backing for the panniers is .032 sheet aluminum. The fabric used on the backs is Cordura. It sounds like you have experience sewing so you should do OK. I learned to sew as a parachute rigger, and still think knowing how to sew is a curse




The mounting system and taper are visible in this picture.

UniChris

The undesirability of a zipper might be a lesson I'm going to have to learn for myself...

Fortunately, I was just able to borrow a single Ortleib zip-lock style closure pannier, so if the DIY project falls through, that will be an option for the possible near-term ride if a bit awkward in how its mounting clips will push up one side of the trunk bag. But I can make it work and it has the capacity for the alternate clothes I want to haul if my DIY efforts fail.

While I was picking that up I also looked at my brother in law's set of other-brand roll closure panniers which have been a notorious pain to get into. Part of the problem is that they're both a roll closure and then another flap on top of that, so there are just too many steps. Looks like the Ortleib branded ones are just the roller, that might be a bit simpler to fabricate and use.

Still, the temptation of a zipper...

At least the borrowed oddball Ortleib let me figure out the heel interference limit, so I think I'm going with my smaller cutting board backers for now - using the larger ones I'd really need an aluminum reinforcement at the top the handle the amount of extension behind the rack, and I didn't buy that Harbor Freight ruler when I was there getting webbing straps this afternoon - maybe next time.

Those amazing pictures suggest your sewing skills are quite more ambitious than mine. There was a time long ago when I had ambitious projects in another realm, these days it's more lift the sewing machine the onto the table the night before a ride and crudely but functionally improvise. Still a sewing machine is a tool like any other and important that it be i the realm of familiarity.

I like the simplicity of this! And for me it would be even simpler as my fork has a three screw version of a cage mount on each side. But I noticed sticking a flimsier bottle cage on one that it seemed to vibrate a lot. I'm thinking if I make the smaller panniers and put them on the rear now, I may later try to move them to the front by just drilling/punching holes for the cage screws in the backer and an internal aluminum doubler strip. It will be awkward to install the screws with a multi-tool from the inside of the bag and maybe a leak point, but simple and solid. However, if I do that I think I'm going to bend an aluminum inverted-U strap that will go between the two and loop over the tire to give some geometric reinforcement so that they don't vibrate quite as much at road speeds. And that would be part of upping my current credit-card plans to camping ones.

Still, the simplicity of your stuff sacks on the forks... and then I think about something like cutting up some 3-liter soda bottles to give them just a tiny bit more definition.

Tourist in MSN

If you have clipless pedals, you can attach your shoes with the cleats to the pedals, that gives you a pretty good way to see where heel worst case scenario for heel strike is. Add an inch of space to make sure.

Not sure why your are doing this, there are low budget options for panniers. But if you really want to make some, go for it. Some on this forum in past years have made panniers from kitty litter buckets. Do you have any friends or family that buy kitty liter?
https://www.adventurecycling.org/blo...-own-panniers/

Stiffener, have you considered Coroplast? In some communities it is often used for political lawn signs. I bought a big sheet at Home Depot a few years ago, when I have another project I still have left over.

None of my panniers has a floor or bottom stiffener, only on the side that is against the rack. I pack them tight enough that they hold shape.

I hope you realize that many if not most people buy a different saddle for touring instead of the stock one on the new bike. It is not clear to me if your first day is 85 miles on a brand new saddle on a brand new bike that you have not tried for much distance yet.

Good luck.

mtnbud

I like that idea - I've also read of the idea of buying a cheap bucket and cutting it up.

UniChris

I'm still in flatland. Kind of self preservation on the unicycle, and I figure if I can do a century on them there, I can on the bike of current plans as well. Plus on two recent group rides I've watched the same person fall painfully on her side once per ride while trying to get used to them.

I'll admit as of the moment the number of things I'd need to accomplish before heading out makes doing the upcoming ride with light bulky clothing in the single borrowed ortleib is looking tempting.

Thought about that, noticed some cheap wastebaskets in the store yesterday that were temptingly shaped, but more for replacing the milk crate on my grocery bike than for my gravel bike plans.

I have an eye out for it, stuff is sadly expensive if one can't find castoffs. I can get the more traditional HDPE, shipping just doubles the price of it.

The distance doesn't really feel like a stretch since I've been doing 50 anytime on whim all winter and over 200 total last week including a 78. But yes, new bike does raise some concerns. I have a 35 mile ride on it so far and 49 total, and yes, it's a little different than what I'm used to. So thanks for making me not feel so silly about the plan of stuffing the cheaper, firmer saddle I did a 78 miler on last week in one of the panniers so that I can switch to that if I need to. Also, there is theoretically an option of diverting halfway through the ride and hopping on a train that will meet the already planned train leg. Or I suppose just turning around and heading home from about the point 30 miles in where I'd make that diversion.

I do figure I need to do a few miles test ride with an equivalent amount of stuff in whatever I'm packing it in the night before setting out.

robow

Where are the "kitty litter bucket" pannier enthusiasts when you need them ?

mtnbud

Here are mine:
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I'm thinking UniChris would probably have heel strike issues with kitty litter buckets, but I love mine. They're waterproof and easy to pack. They also make a great chair and an ice bucket...

UniChris

Oh well, hard to argue with simplicity.

A rolling we shall go...


Actually a little hard to roll because it's practically airtight. My buckles for the strap ends may be arriving relatively late in the afternoon, may have to just sew some loops in the webbing and cinch in down with some rope to do a loaded test ride up the local trail

Uncertain yet if I'm going to need some internal straps to hold the cutting board in the back, but can sew those to the exposed inside seam allowances (lazy) if I need to. What I do need to do is go put some painters tape on the rack and carefully mark where the trunk bag attachments fall and where these will so that I can deconflict them.

Overall I think the sizing is definitely small, but two of these and the trunk bag should be enough for the pending trip, and I can do something larger later and relegate these for odds and ends on local family rides, or try to convert them to front mounting on the fork braze-ons.

Right now I still have enough fabric on hand to make two more in a zip style, but probably not a second roller and two zip style, so I need to test this a bit and decide it's going to work before I cut out a second of this style.

M Rose

I have been thinking about making my own panniers as well. What​ did you end up using for material and thread?

Tourist in MSN

I am half joking with this post, that said you could skip the bike completely. I snapped this photo about six years ago. But I did not meet the owner so I know nothing about how their trip was going.



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headwind15

A long time ago, I wasted about 4-5 days, trying to make my own panniers. I gave up and went to the local LBS and found some in their close out bin for $20. Best thing I ever did. Looking on E bay, I see panniers starting at $20. I don't see any advantage to making your own.

UniChris

I've tended to go with a backpack on the unicycle except for water bottles and a small toolbag on the frame - I've seen packing loadouts that look reasonable, but in my opinion it's important to keep anything on the front narrow in the hope that in an "unplanned dismount" you can run out your momentum on your feet, so anything that might trip is a concern. And stuff an the back can't be too wide or high either, as you have to be able to straddle that to mount up - preferably aided by the momentum of a couple of walking steps. What I need to do is figure out how to get a third water bottle up front, and figure out a way to attach a handle directly to the seatpost rather than through a unicycle saddle so that I can experiment with using a bike saddle on it - after 50 miles or so a unicycle saddle (even a flatter and more minimal one than pictured) takes far more toll than a bike one.

As for choice of what to ride, if I were doing this only for my own purposes I might take the unicycle, but part of the point is to join a road-bike oriented group ride the next day, and pace wise I'm going to need the bike (minus the overnight stuff) for that - apart from reluctantly admitting it's more effective for grocery shopping, compatibility for riding with others (beyond the kid-paced family rides where I can take the uni) is a main motivator of why I finally got back into bikes.

Tourist in MSN

If you need ideas for your unicycle, I cropped this out of my original photo before I photo reduced the one I previously posted. This way you can better see what that owner did on his.

UniChris

That's more to brace the handlebar against the seatpost, the primary attachment is still to the saddle.

Better touring rigs use a larger diameter pole fore and aft that supports the bags and has the narrow handlebar mounted to its top, though carrying camping gear on a unicycle is beyond my plans.

UniChris

Made some mistakes with how I sewed the webbing that I'll need to fix after doing the other one right from the start, but the good news is that stuffed with clothes and a spare saddle I didn't notice it at all riding around the neighbourhood, in terms of any of movement, weight, or just having it on one side.

I think I do want to leave a spot for a little Velcro strap around the rear diagonal rack support to make it a little more immobile but it's workable without. And the postman just delivered my set of webbing buckles, which look sturdy enough for this use. Plus even though not quite flat they'll engage either way with is potential useful for the roll ends.

Going to sew the webbing to the other one before I sew the bag itself.

robow

Other than self satisfaction, but you're right, you can often find inexpensive quality on eBay.
Of course back in the day, remember those Nashbar seasonal clearance deals, they would practically give those panniers away.

UniChris

Bike's ready, but not sure I am.



Well, almost ready. Had to finish the webbing ends and still need to prep some lengths of cord and heatshrink their ends, plus make a couple backup straps for the trunk bag, but went and rode around a bit and the panniers seem fine.

More iffy on if I'm ready for a serious ride even after riding very little this week. If I cancel the trip I may go do an out and back in a different direction with the luggage mounted, or may go through with it but opt for meeting the train at 50 miles.

UniChris

87 mile day went well, actually, though we'll see how my knee feels about the group ride tomorrow.

Panniers worked very well.

My one concern is that although the webbing that attaches them runs down the back and a bit up the front, the cutting board stiffener is just stuck in there, so the fabric carries the way the weight wants to pull them a little away from the rack.

I think I'm tempted to rivet (or more likely screw and nylock) the stiffener through the main fabric to the webbing at the top. That also gives the opportunity to consider using fabricated rail hooks, though webbing loops and parachute cord tying the two together at a spacing that just spans the rack worked well.

And in the future I want to work out a way to distribute more weight on the front than just the bottle cages I had there. Not sure if that's moving these to the front and making larger but perhaps thinner ones for the back, or making mini ones for the front for tools type items or what... depends a little on what real plans I make, vs the present shakedown scope family visit and way to get to a destination ride.


Mile 54 of 87.

Tourist in MSN

Sounds like (1) you have not quit touring, (2) everything that was packed on the bike stayed packed on the bike, and (3) nothing broke. So in that regard this was a success. Great. When you have plans for improvement, that means this was the first of many trips.

SapInMyBlood

Hold on: did you do a century on a unicycle?

UniChris

Nine of them ;-) And for silly reasons want to hold off doing my first on the bike one until making that ten with this summers first.

Main challenge apart from needing a longer day is the greater toll a unicycle saddle makes. Though yesterday's bike ride makes me confident a bike century is there whenever I choose to claim it - or may pick a different hiller route to make it interesting.

(What's also proven true I hadn't expected is that I needed the past several months to gain range on the bike - different muscles used on the longer cranks, different techniques)