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Old 05-27-22, 06:45 AM
  #26  
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Here's Laurence Brophy, 88, at the finish of his 900+ mile Lands End to John o'Groats (LEJoG) ride. He self-reported to have 'slept rough' (camped) on this cycle tour.



Mr. Brophy took the known record of 'oldest LEJoG rider' from 87 y.o. Donald Wells, who said one day's lodging fell through and he spent that night on a park bench!

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Old 05-27-22, 08:16 AM
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Off topic a bit, but... Do any of you older guys user heart rate to guide daily exercise levels? I not as inclined to when I ride these days and certainly don't on tour, but on the rowing machine I always found it useful. When I decided to start rowing again I realized that I was unsure what to use as a maximum heart rate to calculate target rates. Also the HR band had bit the dust. So I have been just rowing with out the monitor. I got a new band now. The 220 minus age was always way off (low) for me in younger years. I am unsure if that is still the case. I am less inclined to do a big push to actually figure out what my real max is than when I was young.

My inclination is to use the calculation start and adjust upwards gradually as needed until it feels like 80% and set that adjusted value as the new 80% value, Then calculate any other zones from there
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Old 05-27-22, 09:01 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
...Do any of you older guys user heart rate to guide daily exercise levels?
Not a digital one but yes, I monitor my heart rate. I no longer ride far or long but my rides are Short Steep Up and Downs that are a real challenge for me. I have to be careful as some times I put out that extra effort to breach the hill and am just barely capable of remaining on my bike. Gasping for breath, and feeling my eyes, neck, and the veins in my forehead bulging from pressure as I twist the front wheel back and forth to keep balance like a tight rope performer with no net. That's a pretty good indicator of over doing it.

I was once making my way back home after one of my short rides on a ranch light gravely road up from the river. There were dry riverlets of erosion on my climb but somehow I was able to plow up to the crest. Up top I was wasted and managed to brace myself against a mail box next to a ranch grate. A few minutes latter a lady my age came barrelling down her dusty drive to check out her mailbox. She eyed me from behind the grate, truck door open, and shot gun I am sure on the seat. I waved at her a with a gasp and said, "Just made it up the hill from the river...". She said, "Honey, I don't even drive the truck down there any more. Come on to the house and cool off." It was a good day and taught me that I need to deal with my disabilities and count age as being one of them.
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Old 05-27-22, 09:30 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Off topic a bit, but... Do any of you older guys user heart rate to guide daily exercise levels? I not as inclined to when I ride these days and certainly don't on tour, but on the rowing machine I always found it useful. When I decided to start rowing again I realized that I was unsure what to use as a maximum heart rate to calculate target rates. Also the HR band had bit the dust. So I have been just rowing with out the monitor. I got a new band now. The 220 minus age was always way off (low) for me in younger years. I am unsure if that is still the case. I am less inclined to do a big push to actually figure out what my real max is than when I was young.

My inclination is to use the calculation start and adjust upwards gradually as needed until it feels like 80% and set that adjusted value as the new 80% value, Then calculate any other zones from there
I sent you a private message with a copyrighted paywall article that I saved to my hard drive years ago.

Another one, I saved this to my hard drive in 2016, but this is not paywall so listed the link here:
https://www.roadbikerider.com/why-th...a-is-wrong-d3/

About a decade ago I asked my Dr about max heart rate, he did the 220 minus age thing. And I did a stress test at about that time on a treadmill, asked the cardiologist that was supervising the test about max heart rate, she did the same thing, 220 minus ... etc.. In both cases I specified that I was asking about it for bicycling. From what I have seen in the literature, the 220 minus age number underestimates things for many people, so I generally hold to that as that would include some safety factor. (I am not a medical professional, do not assume that I know anything other that the references I cited.)

I have not had a heart problem, but I do not want to get a heart problem so I use an HRM to tell me if I am working too hard. That often tells me to stop pedaling on steep uphills, in those cases I can walk my bikes up hills at a steady pace with lower heart rate.

Two of my friends had stents installed in the past decade, both were cyclists, one took a trip to a hospital while in the middle of the bike ride. One of them used to be slower than me, but with his stent he became much faster than me.

Since I only use my HRM to look for a current number, not any averages or GPS tracking or anything like that, I use a cheap HRM that also has a digital stopwatch and no other features. Uses older electronic technology, not ANT+ or bluetooth. The big numbers makes it easy to read without reading glasses. I leave this on my bike exposed to weather, no problems with water ingress on my 2019 Canadian Maritimes tour that was a very rainy five weeks.
https://www.sigmasport.com/en/produk...d-series/id-go

The Sigma one that I cited above is on the left side of my stem cap in the photo below. With a heart rate of 87, I obviously was not woking too hard:




If you get one, get one that has good waterproofing, photo is the one that died on me half way thru my Iceland tour. The company that made it has gone out of business.




Stay safe and healthy.
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Old 05-27-22, 10:04 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I sent you a private message with a copyrighted paywall article that I saved to my hard drive years ago.

Another one, I saved this to my hard drive in 2016, but this is not paywall so listed the link here:
https://www.roadbikerider.com/why-th...a-is-wrong-d3/

About a decade ago I asked my Dr about max heart rate, he did the 220 minus age thing. And I did a stress test at about that time on a treadmill, asked the cardiologist that was supervising the test about max heart rate, she did the same thing, 220 minus ... etc.. In both cases I specified that I was asking about it for bicycling. From what I have seen in the literature, the 220 minus age number underestimates things for many people, so I generally hold to that as that would include some safety factor. (I am not a medical professional, do not assume that I know anything other that the references I cited.)

I have not had a heart problem, but I do not want to get a heart problem so I use an HRM to tell me if I am working too hard. That often tells me to stop pedaling on steep uphills, in those cases I can walk my bikes up hills at a steady pace with lower heart rate.

Two of my friends had stents installed in the past decade, both were cyclists, one took a trip to a hospital while in the middle of the bike ride. One of them used to be slower than me, but with his stent he became much faster than me.
I have used the monitor mostly to hit target ranges for workouts. Most often that was to stay in a nice 70-80% aerobic zone, but sometimes a (60-70&) temperate or even (50-60&) low intensity zone. Back in the day the calculated range was so low as to be almost a whole zone off. I could easily reach the calculated maximum.

From what I read in the PM the calculation may be likely to be even further off at older ages. So it seems less reasonable to rely on it. I think I'll just make a judgement call on what feels like an 80% effort after some time at using the monitor with the erg. I'll include some harder and easier efforts to reality check what seems right. It should help that I have an idea of what an 80% effort felt like in the old days.
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Old 05-27-22, 10:29 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I have used the monitor mostly to hit target ranges for workouts. Most often that was to stay in a nice 70-80% aerobic zone, but sometimes a (60-70& temperate or even (50-60& low intensity zone. ...
...
We clearly are using it for different purposes, you are using it to guide training and exercise, I am using it to avoid unhealthy overexertion.
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Old 05-27-22, 02:01 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
We clearly are using it for different purposes, you are using it to guide training and exercise, I am using it to avoid unhealthy overexertion.
To some extent I am doing the same by staying in the range of a desired training zone, but yes my primary goal for it is maximizing training effect.
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Old 05-28-22, 05:05 PM
  #33  
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I've always buried the 220 minus my age. At one time, I ran across another formula which was more involved, but that one seemed to predict my max more better. Sorry I have no memory of even where I found it.
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Old 05-29-22, 05:09 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
I've always buried the 220 minus my age. At one time, I ran across another formula which was more involved, but that one seemed to predict my max more better. Sorry I have no memory of even where I found it.
There are a few different ones that do a little better (MaxHR = 208 – 0.7 x Age is one). They don't take into account that we are individuals and don't conform to any of those formulas. They are probably close enough to give a very rough idea for just about everyone and reasonably accurate for 80% of us.

If you want more accuracy than that you kind of need to get on the bike, an erg, or treadmill and push to the limit. It isn't as simpile as just pusing to that limit though. Also running, rowing, and cycling maximums are apparently different (cycling is apparently lower).

It is recommended that you do it in controlled conditions like a treadmill erg, or stationary trainer. For the bike they say to start with a good warm up. Then ride at 100w (power meter required), increasing 20w per minute until exhaustion. The highest rate during the ride is the max HR. This just isn't something I think I ought to be doing at my current age and fitness level. If I had been traing hard for the past good while and was very fit and looking for a competitive edge. I might do this to establigh numbers to optimize a training plan, but for an old guy riding to maintain some general fitness level it is pretty over the top and probably dangerous.

Any way... My new Polar band arrived and I did the first rowing workout with it. The HR numbers correlated with numbers I would have guessed based on my perceived effort, the 220-age formula, and my assumed correction for that calculation being low. So I have what I think are some workable numbers for training zones and I am good enough with that. I'd like to have a real number, but figure I don't really need it and it isn't worth the effort or risk.

The following are a few links on testing for max HR if anyone is interested:
https://analytics.rowsandall.com/201...um-heart-rate/
https://www.triathlonvibe.com/traini...um-heart-rate/
https://www.runnersworld.com/trainin...ax-heart-rate/

Here is an interesting NYT article on HR and the 220-age formula.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/h...hallenged.html

Edit:
After looking at this a bit, working the numbers, and doing another workout. I suspect that the 208 – 0.7 x Age might be pretty close for me at my current age. I am calling it close enough in any case. I am not at optimum fitness which makes it harder to get a good fix on a number, but I am getting nice steady readings and reasonable recovery upon stopping so I am happy. Recovery rate is pretty key after all.

I had geeked out on all of this stuff years ago when racing but had forgotten most of it. Reading the stuff in the links was an interesting refresher for me.
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Old 05-29-22, 09:36 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Here is an interesting NYT article on HR and the 220-age formula.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/h...hallenged.html
Indeed. And I'd concur that it's the recovery profile (how fast your pulse is coming down post-effort) that is a more interesting metric. After taking to running, this is where my profile has changed the most. By far.
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Old 05-30-22, 06:29 AM
  #36  
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FWIW, I just did a ride with the HR monitor. The 220-age says MHR is 149. The 208 – 0.7 x age says MHR is 158. The ride data says that I either casually go way into the red and recover really fast or they are both pretty low. I am betting on the latter as I am not in that great shape for such quick recovery having been pretty sedentary lately. My point being I'd advise not trusting either formula, it could just as well be off the other direction for some people. I'd suggest using it as a starting point, but doing some reality checking.
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Old 05-31-22, 10:00 PM
  #37  
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Maybe should be filed under TMI

I'm probably the only old guy who doesn't like to drag himself out of his tent to pee in the middle of the night. Especially since the tent I use is not much bigger than a bivouc sack.

https://eurekacamping.johnsonoutdoor...g/solitaire-al


A friend of mine told me how upset his wife was when one night in Death Valley he spilled the contents of his urinal all over the tent floor. It got me thinking and I decided to investigate what was available. I don't always know how many nights my tour will last but it will probably only last as long as the supply of bags I've brought with me.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I started touring again 5 years ago after I retired. I think it had been almost 40 years since my last overnighter.


I wish I could go back and tell my younger self to slow down and not worry about how far I went each day. The best scenery of my Big Sur ride last year was stopping in the middle of bridges and looking up the canyons, out to the mouth of the creeks where it met the sea, and straight down at the rocks and logs piled on them.
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Old 06-01-22, 05:01 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by kevmcd View Post
I'm probably the only old guy who doesn't like to drag himself out of his tent to pee in the middle of the night. Especially since the tent I use is not much bigger than a bivouc sack.

https://eurekacamping.johnsonoutdoor...g/solitaire-al
Wow that is interesting. I remember the older version of this tent. I owned one and it had some nice features, but was a big fail for me for a couple reasons. I wound up selling it for a few reasons.

The original Solitaire had really lousy fiberglass poles that had frequent breakage due in part to poor quality and in part to the tight radius of the bends. The weight was not very good for the size in part because of the fiberglass poles and in part because of the need for 8 stakes (the supplied ones were heavy steel). A good bit of weight could be saved by using MSR needle stakes or similar, but the fiberglass poles were still an issue. Some people replaced the poles with aluminum, but it wasn't a real easy replacement because the tight bend required meant that thinner than standard poles that would take a tighter bend were needed.

It looks like they solved most of the previous problems. I'd quibble with the listed "minimum weight". I am guess that assumes carrying no stakes. This tent really needs them all to keep the fly off of the mesh if it is to remain dry and ventilated. It does take some care to manage condensation, so don't button up too tight.

The ability to peel back the fly for stargazing is nice. The ability to zip open the whole top is as well.

I found it roomy enough and even had room to bring in a little bit of gear. It looks like a nice tent for just over $100 in this current incarnation. Perfect for the budget conscious camper who doesn't require a lot of sprawling space. Just be sure you aren't getting the old model with fiberglass poles and get some lighter stakes. The original one had three guy out points and 8 stakes so I think there were 11 stakes. 4 were the absolute minimum for it to stand, but it needed more to keep the fly off the mesh. I think it pretty much needed at least 8, so the weight of the stakes was critical and investing in some light ones was well worthwhile.

I have no logical need for one, but I am almost tempted to buy one now that they have decent poles when I see them as cheap as $86. I already have a Spitfire 1 that is a better inexpensive tent. I just like it that they finally did what they should have done years ago with this model.

I think I recall a much more expensive version that wasn't very available. That was in the distant past. I may be wrong, but I think it had titanium poles and was much more expensive. I never saw one or even saw one for sale online.

BTW, I hate it that folks call these little tents bivys. They definitely are tents, not bivys IMO.
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Old 06-01-22, 06:19 AM
  #39  
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82 y.o. woman attempts Lands End to John o'Groats. Follow her daily:

https://le-jog.co.uk/
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Old 06-01-22, 06:36 AM
  #40  
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Protein in diet and aging.

A good article about protein in diet in NY Times, paywall site, link is at:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/24/w...scle-loss.html

I do not want to get in trouble for copyright violation, but I think pasting one paragraph from the article is acceptable:

Ms. Dodd recommends that generally healthy adults who are 65 or older
consume at least 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. For
a person who weighs 150 pounds, this means incorporating about 68 to 82
grams of protein into your daily diet. Ms. Dodd cautioned, however, that
protein needs can vary depending on oneís circumstances. Older adults
who have a wound or injury might need slightly more protein to help with
their healing, she said, while people who have kidney disease might be
advised to reduce their protein intake. Varying levels of physical activity
may also change the calculation. Itís a good idea to consult with your
health care provider before making any significant changes to your diet.
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Old 06-01-22, 08:52 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
.................

I found it roomy enough and even had room to bring in a little bit of gear. It looks like a nice tent for just over $100 in this current incarnation. ........
.
The low price works well with my self-deceptive psychology. Since I spent so little on the tent it allows me to rationalize an unlimited number of times that I deserve to bail whenever I get unnecessarily uncomfortable and spend the night in a $150 hotel room. If I had bought a $400 tent I might make myself tough it out so the expense wasn't wasted.

I really like the new air mattresses. I have a collection of 1970s thermarests in the basement that are only suitable for use on political prisoners.
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Old 06-02-22, 05:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by kevmcd View Post
The low price works well with my self-deceptive psychology. Since I spent so little on the tent it allows me to rationalize an unlimited number of times that I deserve to bail whenever I get unnecessarily uncomfortable and spend the night in a $150 hotel room. If I had bought a $400 tent I might make myself tough it out so the expense wasn't wasted.
That actually is a good mode of operation. The rationale is bogus though. Getting a room now and then is great if you enjoy it and can afford it. Enjoy the pool, hot tub, launry facilities, and "free" breakfast. Watch some TV. Use the wifi. Charge all your devices.

Doing that and still enjoying a bargain on the tent is fine IMO. I never have any regrets for buying my inexpensive Spitfire 1. I mostly use hoopless a hoopless bivy these days, but still love that Spitfire. Maybe the best $100 I have spent. Too bad it is no longer made.
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Old 06-03-22, 09:06 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
FWIW, I just did a ride with the HR monitor. The 220-age says MHR is 149. The 208 – 0.7 x age says MHR is 158. The ride data says that I either casually go way into the red and recover really fast or they are both pretty low. I am betting on the latter as I am not in that great shape for such quick recovery having been pretty sedentary lately. My point being I'd advise not trusting either formula, it could just as well be off the other direction for some people. I'd suggest using it as a starting point, but doing some reality checking.
So yeah more data continues to say that both formulas are pretty worthless. They suggest that I can go into the red for 20 minutes without much discomfort and recover in a couple minutes. I absolutely am not in that great of shape so my MHR number must be quite a bit higher than either formula suggests. I guess my best option is to go by feel and eventionally settle on a range that I call aeronic and then set the other ranges around that. At 71 YO, I figure riding unsupervised until ready to drop, just to get a number is probably a very bad idea unless I want to wind up dead, which I don't. So my plan will have to be good enough.
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Old 06-13-22, 06:50 PM
  #44  
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69 here. I can still go from 5;30 am to about 4:00 pm with a full load on my bike. Usually 3 breaks, more if it is freakn hot weather. Just posted a little update on my thread today and I'll add more soon. Touring Japan, mostly so far the southern part. Oily fish is my main diet. I think it helps with the joints, but don't know really.
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Old 06-14-22, 01:46 PM
  #45  
irwin7638
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Unlike you I've never been one for trips longer than 10 days. I just turned 70 and still am taking 3 or 4 trips a year ranging from 3-10 days in different interesting locations. Still camp as much as possible and I really can't see an end to it. I ride everyday, all year, in Michigan. I don't train for the trips, I just don't use my car in town, ride instead and participate in occasional club and charity rides. That seems to be working.
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Old 06-14-22, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by biker in japan View Post
Oily fish is my main diet. I think it helps with the joints, but don't know really.
Probably the Omega 3 fatty acids. Omega 6 will cause inflammation - I try to keep my Omega 3 to omega 6 ratio as high as I can. Sure helps my joints - especially the mechanically-altered ones from various injuries that are arthritic. When possible I stick to the SMASH fish:
Sardines, Mackerel, Anchovies, Salmon and Herring.

Cheers
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Old 06-23-22, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
82 y.o. woman attempts Lands End to John o'Groats. Follow her daily:

https://le-jog.co.uk/
She made it! 28 days, 1522 km over the road (946 miles in old money).

"I am getting very used to being on the road, and I feel quite claustrophobic when I have to stop riding." - Gina Harris



“How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?” — Satchel Paige
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