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Installation of rear rack - too far back?

Old 06-03-22, 06:03 AM
  #26  
saddlesores
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
...BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved/modified the bosses when they found out the original placement was a bad idea. Just guessing, but my bet is the top one was either found to be in a bad position for their rack or originally farther forward and in a bad place to stress the stay. Maybe I am all wet here, but I picture someone saving face by saying lets move them and call them water bottle cages.

In any case it is the kind of quirky crap I expect from Surley.
well, judging by their BS-we-so-cool-we-use-old-typeface-text website, and the middle-aged, potbellied, soiboi-wanna-be-hipster with the goatee and sk8er-boi outfit talking about the "experience" instead of telling us how the darn thing ridez........

.....i'd guess it was some cubicle-dwelling weekend-bike-warrior that specifically designed this BS "gravel bike" to NOT accept standard racks but to carry a couple useless bluetooth-enabled-tell-me-when-to-pee water bottles in the one place they're guaranteed to bounce out of.

........and charge $2000 for the prib'lidge.

great video, by the way........."look at me, ma, i'm poppin' a wheelie! look, ma! looooooooooook!!!!!"
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Old 06-03-22, 06:19 AM
  #27  
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You bunch of grumpy old bastards, I liked the goofy video!
Jump\stutter cuts and all.
Why the potbelly dude, who the hell knows why?

But yes, surly have always been the Kool guys not like regular bike companies, but also yes, marketing marlarkey is just that-- it was the same in all the eras and always will be.

I actually prefer their goofy niche aesthetic to a slick Spesh thing, but in the end, their bikes are just bikes, and the 1x (one buy--buy one now, buy a double later! HA, just came up with that right now. I'm trademarking it boys and girls!)
....the 1x and bikepacking are just what's in now kids, that's the world.

I do laugh though cuz a friend has a bike, built up and sold with a 1x 32t chainring, she didn't know any better, but recently changed it to a 36t, where if the goddarn thing had a double, she'd have been happy. Cost savings boys AND people are scrambling to buy this sheet too!
Win win
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Old 06-03-22, 06:55 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I actually prefer their goofy niche aesthetic to a slick Spesh thing, but in the end, their bikes are just bikes, and the 1x (one buy--buy one now, buy a double later! HA, just came up with that right now. I'm trademarking it boys and girls!)
....the 1x and bikepacking are just what's in now kids, that's the world.
Their flavor of hype always rubbed me the wrong way, but so does most marketing hype. I can look past it if I actually like the product though. I think maybe I got off the wrong foot with Surly since my first exposure to them was the LHT which I very much did not like. I rode one and it was everthing I disliked about a touring bike. To be fair that may just mean I don't really like real touring bikes, but it is what it is. If I had been introduced to the Cross Check first and maybe bought one in it's drop bar incarnation I may have had a higher tolerance for their other bikes and marketing BS.
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Old 06-03-22, 07:19 AM
  #29  
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This POS takes the cake for stupidest useless bike design I've ever seen. LOL.
SELL it and start over.

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Old 06-03-22, 07:43 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
This POS takes the cake for stupidest useless bike design I've ever seen. LOL.
SELL it and start over.
I wouldn't go that far. Maybe if what you wanted was a traditional touring bike. It certainly isn't that. It looks like it is probably fine for what it was designed to do, lightly loaded bikepacking. It can probably be pressed into service for a bit heavier duty too. That said, yes it is probably a poor excuse for a "fully loaded" touring bike.

Annother possible suggestion is to keep the bike and pack more like the bike was intended for. Trim the load and use rackless bags. That also would be a good fit.

Then there is the cobble a rack and panniers to fit it approach. Less than ideal IMO, but it would work. Lots of folks do similar or worse. Probably just as good IMO as the setups I see with 60# of stuff strapped all over the bike using a rackless system.
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Old 06-03-22, 10:11 AM
  #31  
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I bought some Lezyne water bottle cages but had so much trouble getting bottles in or out, quit using them. They were quite well designed if you were going to be bashing your bike over a really bumpy course, they would probably work well back there without the bottles falling out. I have seen some photos of bikepackers using them for bottles on front forks.

But better would be the Blackburn Outpost cages to strap on a tent or something like that. Unlike the Salsa cages, the Blackburn fit in a two hole layout.

I have seen some bikes that had a three bolt pattern in a seat stay designed to mount a Salsa cage on a straight instead of bent seat stay, that would make more sense.

I have ranted too many times about my experience with Surly refusing to warranty my LHT frame which I eventually put in a recycle bin that I won't bother repeating that rant here.

Originally Posted by djb View Post
You bunch of grumpy old bastards, I liked the goofy video!
...
I lost track of how many times I heard the top of a beer can opened on the video. If I was 40 or 50 years younger, that might be appealing.
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Old 06-03-22, 10:28 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
But better would be the Blackburn Outpost cages to strap on a tent or something like that. Unlike the Salsa cages, the Blackburn fit in a two hole layout.
That was my thought as well, but it may not suit the volume of stuff the OP is trying to carry. Maybe with a seat bag and two of those he could get by. A bit of gear trimming may also be in order though if he is willing.
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Old 06-03-22, 11:09 AM
  #33  
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I believe that if OP used the bottom mounting bolt and a rack like the Blackburn Expedition or any other rack where the mounting strut is centered on the rack it would work fine. IMO the bike is OK, it is the design of the rack that is causing the problem.

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Old 06-03-22, 11:23 AM
  #34  
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I tend to agree with Doug about the rack. I never did get the surly racks, pricey, heavy and with those weird extra bolts that could loosen.
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Old 06-03-22, 12:25 PM
  #35  
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My concern would be how well the mounting points are attached to the tubing and whether or not there is enough reinforcement there. When you consider that the Salsa Anything Cage has three bolts, yet they carry a lot less weight than a full 40 liter pannier on the side of a rack, a frame builder would be the best one to say if a mounting point intended for a water bottle cage is strong enough for a loaded rack.

My heavy duty touring bike uses M6 rack bolts instead of M5 which is typically used for racks because you want a heavily loaded rack to be attached quite firmly.
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Old 06-03-22, 12:53 PM
  #36  
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That is a good point. Surly's site does not mention a rack for the Ghost Grappler in any of its rack or bike information.

However, I toured on the bike I raced and the "fender mounts" did just fine. The only modification was a set of clincher rims,my "training wheels", instead of the sew-up wheels, which had nothing to do with the rack.

1972 Peugeot PX10, which was never intended to mount racks.




I know this has been posted dozens of times, but.....

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Old 06-03-22, 02:34 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I tend to agree with Doug about the rack. I never did get the surly racks, pricey, heavy and with those weird extra bolts that could loosen.
I agree completely.
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Old 06-03-22, 02:45 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post

see bottle cage mounted to seat stay at 1:50

Immediately after showing the water bottle mounts he says the bike is rack compatible but does not give any further details. I would suspect that because the 'water bottle bosses' are brazed into the steel frame the same as rack mounts would be, there should be no problem mounting a rack, but the one OP has is obviously not ideal due to the way the load hangs waaay out behind the wheel. I would check with Surly to be sure.
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Old 06-04-22, 01:30 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
Immediately after showing the water bottle mounts he says the bike is rack compatible but does not give any further details. I would suspect that because the 'water bottle bosses' are brazed into the steel frame the same as rack mounts would be, there should be no problem mounting a rack, but the one OP has is obviously not ideal due to the way the load hangs waaay out behind the wheel. I would check with Surly to be sure.
this is also immediately after he mentions the 3-pack mounts on the down tube.......
.....giving the ability to carry provisions to get "out of wife-range for a night or two."

i would bet hipster dude means salsa-anything-rack style "racks" and not traditional tubus/blackburn cargo/luggage racks.

will the welded bottle bosses hold up to full panniers? dunno, need to ask the experts.
but it's a steel frame, so one of those seatpost-mount racks with 4 P-clamp legs bolted to the seatstays should be fine.

another option would be a BOB trailer.....depending on OP's chosen routes.
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Old 06-05-22, 12:50 PM
  #40  
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I think thatís the way itís supposed to look
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Old 06-05-22, 01:48 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post


I think thatís the way itís supposed to look
Yep, and that is why that rack doesn't work right on his bike where the bosses are directly over the axle. .
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Old 06-13-22, 10:33 PM
  #42  
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I was basically sold on the Ghost Grappler for a while there, but life interfered. Still, upon seeing that wacky bend in the seat stays, I immediately thought "Salsa Alternator rack." The GG doesn't have the alternator dropout system (see below), but that weird bend with the high bolt would seem to favor the Salsa rack for the rear.

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Old 06-14-22, 12:53 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Yep, and that is why that rack doesn't work right on his bike where the bosses are directly over the axle. .
Aren't all track bosses directly or almost at the axle area on all bikes?
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Old 06-14-22, 03:57 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Aren't all track bosses directly or almost at the axle area on all bikes?
Most, but have a look at post #40 in this thread. Surly has some frames that have them part way up the seat stay on models where the disc brakes are potentially in the way of a regular rack. They have this special boss location and rack to on those models. I don't know if anyone else does that or not or if it is just a Surly thing.
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Old 06-14-22, 05:24 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Aren't all track bosses directly or almost at the axle area on all bikes?
I think we had this conversation a few years ago. We discussed Racktime Addit. You were looking for a rack, I mentioned the Addit but commented that if the mounts on the dropouts were up high that might not work well.

Some frame manufacturers started to mount rack mounts up higher when they switched disc brake mounts from seat stays to chain stays. I initially did not like the Addit rack on my Lynskey, it was mounted waaaaaay up high.



Eventually I mounted the rack on the lower fender mounting points and also drilled new holes in the rack to lower the rack a bit more.



Not all racks can be drilled that way, the Addit has flat aluminum plate at the mount, that worked out nicely.



The fenders are mounted inside the dropouts, the rack on the outside. The fender mounting is up higher than the cassette, so that does not interfere with chain movement when shifting.

If anyone tries drilling like this, precision is important to make sure that the rack mounts symmetrical, if the two holes are not precisely drilled right the rack could be off center or rotated slightly.

Lynskey is not the only company with those high mounting points, many others did that too.
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Old 06-14-22, 05:49 AM
  #46  
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Thanks guys, I remember now.
I still think he could use the lower hole with spacers, but I don't have the bike or rack in front of me.
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Old 06-14-22, 06:10 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Thanks guys, I remember now.
I still think he could use the lower hole with spacers, but I don't have the bike or rack in front of me.
I have no doubt he could just buy almost any normal rack. In some cases it may require a little spreading and bending of the rack legs and/or a spacer on the bolt at the braze on, but I have not seen any where it didn't work out with existing mount points assuming there are some provided near the axle. Interestingly, IME the more you spend the more trouble there is likely to be mounting it.
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