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Tubus Logo Classic vs Logo Classic Edelstahl (stainless)

Old 07-10-22, 07:49 AM
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smasha
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Tubus Logo Classic vs Logo Classic Edelstahl (stainless)

I'm actually considering a Tubus Logo Classic Edelstahl (stainless) for my new bike. I live and ride near enough to the sea that I don't want to risk rust, and aluminum/aluminium racks tend to not last more than 5-10 years for me; this makes stainless the "affordable" option.

The "regular" version of the Logo has small "nubs" on the rails (red circle, pictured below), apparently to keep the pannier hooks from sliding backwards. Those nubs seem like a good idea… But the stainless version of that rack does not have those nubs.

Aside from wondering why the nubs are missing from the stainless version (my first guess is that it has to do with nuances of welding stainless steel) I'm wondering how the lack of nubs affects the functionality/usefulness of this rack.

Anyone have experience with one or both versions of this rack?

I'll most certainly be using Ortlieb QL2.1 back-rollers with it.

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Old 07-10-22, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by smasha View Post
I'm actually considering a Tubus Logo Classic Edelstahl (stainless) for my new bike. I live and ride near enough to the sea that I don't want to risk rust, and aluminum/aluminium racks tend to not last more than 5-10 years for me; this makes stainless the "affordable" option.

The "regular" version of the Logo has small "nubs" on the rails (red circle, pictured below), apparently to keep the pannier hooks from sliding backwards. Those nubs seem like a good idea… But the stainless version of that rack does not have those nubs.

Aside from wondering why the nubs are missing from the stainless version (my first guess is that it has to do with nuances of welding stainless steel) I'm wondering how the lack of nubs affects the functionality/usefulness of this rack.

Anyone have experience with one or both versions of this rack?

I'll most certainly be using Ortlieb QL2.1 back-rollers with it.
G’day Smasha,
just a quick note to let you know the Tubus Stainless in my experience (Nova/ Cosmo) is more rust resistant than rust proof.
A slight oxidisation manifesting as discolouration for the most part is what you might expect.
This is easily remedied and occurs very slowly so isn’t the bitter pill it might sound.
Living coastal I made my purchase decision based on a dislike of the visual aspects of rusty racks, due to being fussy about my bikes aesthetic.
Probably every two years my racks get to a point where I give them a light scrub with a green pot scourer which does a great job to my eye. The green scourer is a light duty version, likely a coarse plastic rather than a more serious steel one.
I can’t offer any info on your mentioned racks, but if your a fan of the look of brushed stainless (they aren’t polished or chrome-like), I don’t think you’d be disappointed.
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Old 07-11-22, 05:49 AM
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On a different thread recently someone noted that the "Classic" and "EVO" versions had different bottom rack mounts, the classic was more like plate where the EVO had a three dimensional shape. On this page, teh EVO feet are called 3D Feet.
https://www.tubus.com/en/products/re...oduct/logo-evo

The view from the rear shows different bottom mounting point shape.
https://www.tubus.com/fileadmin/user...Evo_TZ_2.0.pdf
https://www.tubus.com/fileadmin/user...lstahl_1.0.pdf

Are the feet a big deal? Not really, I have a Racktime Addit rack on another bike, that is plate, not 3D, and that has not been any problem. That said, if you have a disc mount that might interfere with the rack mounting, the 3D might give you a bit more clearance.

Also on those tech drawing pages, there is a very slight difference in some dimensions and shape, but it is minor. I had trouble fitting my Carradry panniers to my Logo EVO (steel), I had to fabricate some different lower pannier hooks to make those panniers fit. Looks like the two racks are so similar in dimensions, that I would have had the same problem with the stainless one.

Regarding rust, I have had minimal issues with my steel Logo EVO. Occasionally when I noted some chaffing through the black that was worn down to bare steel, I added some black nail polish (has the brush in the cap, very convenient) which only takes a couple minutes, cost a buck at Dollar Tree. (Do that outside in case it drips.) My five week tour on Pacific Coast, month long tour in Iceland, two weeks in Southern Florida and Florida Keys, and five weeks in Canadian Maritimes, were all near the sea, that did not appear to be an issue for rust at all.

Side note: I always recommend blue (removable) thread locker on all rack bolts. Last time I bought any, this is what I bought.
https://www.truevalue.com/6-ml-remov...hread-locker-1
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Old 07-11-22, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
G’day Smasha,
just a quick note to let you know the Tubus Stainless in my experience (Nova/ Cosmo) is more rust resistant than rust proof.
A slight oxidisation manifesting as discolouration for the most part is what you might expect.
This is easily remedied and occurs very slowly so isn’t the bitter pill it might sound.
Living coastal I made my purchase decision based on a dislike of the visual aspects of rusty racks, due to being fussy about my bikes aesthetic.
Probably every two years my racks get to a point where I give them a light scrub with a green pot scourer which does a great job to my eye. The green scourer is a light duty version, likely a coarse plastic rather than a more serious steel one.
I can’t offer any info on your mentioned racks, but if your a fan of the look of brushed stainless (they aren’t polished or chrome-like), I don’t think you’d be disappointed.
Aesthetics are more important than I'd like to admit, and under normal circumstances I do love the look of stainless and titanium, but… For this, my primary concern is longevity, and part of longevity means not having it stolen; a prerequisite to not having it stolen is to not have it coveted. People can't covet what they can't see, and a black pannier rack on a bike is "invisible" to most people. Aside from using "security bolts" to attach it to the bike, I'm wondering about having the rack painted charcoal or black by an auto-body shop, using some tough baked-on paints.

Of course, 99% of the wear would be on contact points with a pannier bag, so maybe a can of spray-paint would work just as well.

I'm not concerned about surface discolouration, as long as it doesn't rust through. Likewise, if I do get it painted, I'm not worried about a few wear-spots in the paint.
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Old 07-12-22, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by smasha View Post
I'm actually considering a Tubus Logo Classic Edelstahl (stainless) for my new bike. I live and ride near enough to the sea that I don't want to risk rust, and aluminum/aluminium racks tend to not last more than 5-10 years for me; this makes stainless the "affordable" option.

The "regular" version of the Logo has small "nubs" on the rails (red circle, pictured below), apparently to keep the pannier hooks from sliding backwards. Those nubs seem like a good idea… But the stainless version of that rack does not have those nubs.

Aside from wondering why the nubs are missing from the stainless version (my first guess is that it has to do with nuances of welding stainless steel) I'm wondering how the lack of nubs affects the functionality/usefulness of this rack.

Anyone have experience with one or both versions of this rack?

I'll most certainly be using Ortlieb QL2.1 back-rollers with it.

re the NUBS, mine does not have them, but what I do is I face the pannier lower mounting tab facing backwards, so it engages the INNER sloping , angled, rack tube. This keeps the rack from sliding backwards, and the rear mount of my pannier goes on the part of rack horizontal tube right where the nub would be.
This means that the pannier clip mount is stopped from going forward by the inner slanted tube (to the left of your red circle) and the rear facing lower pannier tab stops the pannier from moving forward.

this "counter positioning" or "two opposite holding positions" is the secret to using Ortlieb panniers properly on any rack.
You want, or you HAVE to have to opposing holding forces between one of the top pannier mounts and the lower tab mount--this is a simple way to stop pannier movement in either direction.
Like others here, I "fattened" up my rack rails so that the two pannier upper mounts (without inserts) go onto the rack rails with no play at all, eliminating vibration by a large amount. I used rubber tubing and black tape, hockey stick and electric tape, and in my opinion, this helped on trips I have done over a lot of rough roads, reducing constant vibrations on the pannier mounting hardware.

re your comment on your aluminum racks only lasting 5-10 years, is this because of wear on the mounting points by the panniers? If so, try layers of tape, this will help a lot.
My aluminum racks last and last and last, although one of them does have wear points, but it keeps on working fine.

going from what you say, if aesthetics are super important to you, you really best use protective tape for your racks. To me there is no downside to this, it doesnt show if you use clear tape, and it very much stops rubbing issues--plus you can amuse yourself and reapply tape any time you want, plus it keeps the racks in great shape rubbing wise.
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Old 07-12-22, 08:45 AM
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Ideally, I want the bags' bottom hooks to be facing forward and down at about a 45° angle, because:
  1. a forward-facing hook helps secure the bottom of the bag when braking, and
  2. a downward-facing hook helps secure the bag over bumps
On rough rides, and the hard-braking that can be part of commuter riding, a rear-facing hook is really not ideal, at least not for me. Now I'm wondering if I should go with the "regular" steel racks, and some tubing over wear-points. It might be prudent to use the tubing either way, which would kind of make the stainless rack worse, without the nub.

My alu racks have shown wear under the hooks, and other contact points, but they've all failed from metal fatigue just above where they've been mounted to the frame. That said, the two that I've blown through were both Topeak Super-Tourist Disc racks, and with the old commuter bike I need the extra width around the disk brake. I'm wondering if an Axiom Streamliner 29er DLX might hold up better on a newer bike… Or for a fraction of the cost of a Tubus, would it only last for a fraction of the time?
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Old 07-12-22, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Ideally, I want the bags' bottom hooks to be facing forward and down at about a 45° angle, because:
  1. a forward-facing hook helps secure the bottom of the bag when braking, and
  2. a downward-facing hook helps secure the bag over bumps
On rough rides, and the hard-braking that can be part of commuter riding, a rear-facing hook is really not ideal, at least not for me. Now I'm wondering if I should go with the "regular" steel racks, and some tubing over wear-points. It might be prudent to use the tubing either way, which would kind of make the stainless rack worse, without the nub.

My alu racks have shown wear under the hooks, and other contact points, but they've all failed from metal fatigue just above where they've been mounted to the frame. That said, the two that I've blown through were both Topeak Super-Tourist Disc racks, and with the old commuter bike I need the extra width around the disk brake. I'm wondering if an Axiom Streamliner 29er DLX might hold up better on a newer bike… Or for a fraction of the cost of a Tubus, would it only last for a fraction of the time?
What panniers do you use? I use a Ortlieb Rollers (back and front) that are over a decade old, they may have changed the hooks since. The upper hooks have a clamping hook at the bottom that holds the pannier to the upper rail quite firmly. I do not use the inserts for the hooks that are for different rack diameters, instead i have some plastic tubbing over the wear points. It is clear plastic from the hardware store, 3/8" ID and 1/2 " OD, slit lengthwise. Initially wrapped electrical tape over the tubing, but that sometimes started to unwrap, now I put small zip ties over the electric tape.

First photo before I used zip ties. This bike has unusually long chainstays, pannier is a bit further forward on my Logo than on my other bikes. Note my lower hook is where you said it works poorly for you, but with my upper Ortlieb hooks holding the panniers on really well, that lower hook can work there. I also used some of that hardware store tubing on the lower part of the rack to prevent chaffing. When I brake or hit bumps, the panniers do not shift, the lower hook stays there quite well. Lower hook might come unhooked if I crash, but if I crash, I would expect some things to get unhooked. I have only crashed this bike once with panniers on it, I do not recall the pannier hooks coming loose.



The rack below is an aluminum Racktime Addit. That shows the short zipties I also used on the plastic tubing. This is on a bike with shorter chainstays. You have to look very close to see the clear tubing and zip ties, I was in a hurry to take the photo as the sun was about to set.



This photo is better at showing the tubing on the Racktime rack, with small zipties.



I also have some Carradry panniers, but for purposes of discussion here, my Ortlieb photos are much better.

Regarding fitting a rack on your bike with a disc brake, I can't comment on that, my brake on the above bike is out of the way of the rack.

Do not rule out Racktime racks (aluminum), they are made by teh Tubus company, but sold under a different name. I do not know if Racktime is sold in USA again or not, for a while it was not sold here.
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Old 07-12-22, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
What panniers do you use? I use a Ortlieb Rollers (back and front) that are over a decade old, they may have changed the hooks since. The upper hooks have a clamping hook at the bottom that holds the pannier to the upper rail quite firmly. I do not use the inserts for the hooks that are for different rack diameters, instead i have some plastic tubbing over the wear points. It is clear plastic from the hardware store, 3/8" ID and 1/2 " OD, slit lengthwise. Initially wrapped electrical tape over the tubing, but that sometimes started to unwrap, now I put small zip ties over the electric tape.
I've got the older yellow QL1 Ortliebs like yours, but mine have been retired. Now I've got QL2.1 Rollers, front and back.

Looks like the top hooks on your back-rollers are held firmly in place between the vertical rails. Ideally, the hooks would be spaced wider apart, but the QL2.1 flexes less than the QL1, so that might not be so bad. Not sure about the spacing and alignment, but it looks like there's room to move the bottom hook farther forward, and point it more down, which is what I'd do. So the stainless version might be alright for me.

Now I have to check the Tara front-rack, to see if/how the bottom-hook can face forward, without being too high.
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Old 07-12-22, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Ideally, I want the bags' bottom hooks to be facing forward and down at about a 45° angle, because:
  1. a forward-facing hook helps secure the bottom of the bag when braking, and
  2. a downward-facing hook helps secure the bag over bumps
On rough rides, and the hard-braking that can be part of commuter riding, a rear-facing hook is really not ideal, at least not for me. Now I'm wondering if I should go with the "regular" steel racks, and some tubing over wear-points. It might be prudent to use the tubing either way, which would kind of make the stainless rack worse, without the nub.

My alu racks have shown wear under the hooks, and other contact points, but they've all failed from metal fatigue just above where they've been mounted to the frame. That said, the two that I've blown through were both Topeak Super-Tourist Disc racks, and with the old commuter bike I need the extra width around the disk brake. I'm wondering if an Axiom Streamliner 29er DLX might hold up better on a newer bike… Or for a fraction of the cost of a Tubus, would it only last for a fraction of the time?
re the direction the tab/hook faces--I guess all I can say is that the way I have mine set up, it has been very sturdy. I only had the lower tab pop off once, when I hit a big pothole on a downhill once in Guatemala because I was gawking at the fantastic scenery, the sun was low so lots of sun/shade/sun/shade and I was just into Guatemala and still accustomed to the better paved roads in Mexico , so was a bit complacent going down this hill.

not to say another setup would work well.
I'm not overly concerned about braking forces, I come from a motorcycle background, and for me, bicycle braking forces just arent that much--but again, if you can get your setup to work the way you want, Im sure it will be fine. Dont forget though, that with my top rear hook being up against the rack part, this stops teh pannier from moving forward under braking, and it does work well.

bottom line, I have this setup, but other ways would work, I'm just too lazy to go and change things--I went through different tryouts when I got the rack, and found this one to work, and using this rack and panniers over the years has been successful, so stay it does.

re your alu racks breaking--that is odd. Like you say, I wonder if its that specific model, who knows, or maybe you really overload your panniers a lot with groceries (which I find is waaaay heavier than touring loads often) and or maybe you have narrower tires at higher pressures and you are someone who rides hard and fast over rough stuff a lot?
I know some people are hard on things in how they ride.
I say this because neither myself or any of my riding friends have ever had a rack break, and I've been riding for a long time with rear racks, going back to the 80s.

anyway, good luck with rack/pannier setups.
All of the racks mentioned are really good racks, even the Racktime ones, and I put a Streamliner on one of my wifes bikes, and they seem to be a really solid aluminum rack to my eyes. Tougher than other racks I have had for 20, 30 years.
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