Doug64

I was taking pictures during a 400 km brevet and saw 3 Surly LHTs there. However, one of them may have been a Surly Cross Check. Maybe these folks should subscribe to the Touring Forum and become enlightened about long distance riding

This is a LHT.


The cyclist in front is riding a LHT, and if I had to guess those are 30 or 32 mm tires.


I know the the guy in the yellow jersey, and he is riding a carbon frame bike. Five out of 6 bikes in this picture had fenders.

KPREN

I find this whole light weight setup thing to be very interesting and worth my time to study. It seems as though I must learn the hard way even though what everyone says makes perfect sense. I want it all and it seems as though I must be beaten into submission with compromises in order to find my fit in this touring world. It's quite apparent to me that I must develop the attitudes that go hand in hand with what tickles my fancy for touring. I love off grid dirt touring on gravel and sandy two track roads. I don't mind a rough trail. I don't like to be uncomfortable. Next summer I am planning on doing a combination of the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route and the Western Wildlands Route. Right now, there are things in my current setup that are absolute energy budget busters.
I am torn and driven at the same time. I think bicycles are positively awful contraptions to travel any distance on They are flimsy, dangerous contraptions that subject the rider to untold evil natural elements and second-class road status that is rough to endure. Read any long-distance journal and it's full of hardships and worry. I have not read a journal yet that wasn't full of *****ing and sending stuff back home. So why would a well to do, comfortable old man decide to challenge the remote elements on a bicycle knowing full well the hardships that await? Because the human mind is never healthy with status quo and comfort. Adventure and excitement are highly stimulating and ultimately rewarding. I am a master innovator and problem solver and I have come across nothing in my lifetime that ticks all the compromise and problem boxes quite like bicycle remote dirt touring verses the comfort quotient. It's highly stimulating and exciting to realize that "it's a GD bicycle in a harsh environment with a kick ass feedback loop. The challenge of course is doing it while enjoying the best comforts of life that is possible under the circumstances. Flimsy ass dangerous bicycles introduce uncomfortable mandatory compromises. it is forcing me to redefine what comfort really means and that is exactly what is being discussed in this thread. Going lighter means a much more responsive great feeling bike but compromises what most people believe comfort really is. I am personally struggling with what comfort really means. I am reluctant to spend money before I sort that out. The clock is ticking down to next summer.
I have gone heavy and don't like the way the bike feels and handles. I find it acceptable at about half the weight I have been carrying and that is still above what most of you all are striving for. It's quite stimulating to try to sort it all out. That is much of the fun. What to leave out, what to buy and what to change is all spinning in my head. I am no longer of the belief that I can just throw money at the bike and solve the problems. I have what I believed is the perfect new bike for a DIY build price of about $12,000 but I now question that belief. For $2,000 I can make a decent bike out of what I have.
Another elephant in the room is the fact that I could stand to lose 30 lbs. That alone would solve a lot of issues. Of course, easier said than done, especially at 67 yo. Lighter is definitely going to be a part of going forward right now in my thinking. I am dumb on gear and clothing and that can probably make a large difference. Spend after educating myself seems better than going through multiple purchases trying to get the right thing.
Anyway, enough rambling for now. Assumptions and definition differences always make for a colorful discussion, and I am liking this one so far.

tcs

Interesting. I can't imagine changing in and out of 'civies' to spend 45 minutes mid-day in a little town's local history museum or just to grab a meal at a crossroad cafe. Do you forgo bike-optimized clothing entirely while cycletouring?

staehpj1 

I have never been too worried about looking like a cyclist when on a bike tour. If it is just for the day I figure I can definitely be forgiven my fashion faux pas. I have not done the two days in the Smithsonian kind of thing on tour, but I just might buy some walmart clothes for the days and mail them home if it isn't the end of the tour. As it is I have often just worn running shorts and a tech tee if I didn't want to be in bike shorts and jersey (I often use the tees instead of taking jerseys), The running shorts and tees are part of my regular gear. I did buy some trail running shoes for a week in the Yellowstone Valley but have never bought civiliian clothes for on a tour. Wait, in a sense I sort of have. At the end of one trip I have stayed a week with family and picked up some shorts, shoes, and a few tee shirts. It was inexpensive stuff that I figured I could use any way. I didn't carry any of it on the tour though.

BTW, taking the cleats off of my bike shoes would make them acceptable for the Smithsonian in my mind. Wearing Crocs or whatever other footwear was carried (If I had any) would also not bother me.

I can well imagine needing an upgrade in clothing for some special situation. I'd address those situations on a case by case basis, but likely carrying clothing coast to coast because I wanted it for 2 days at the end wouldn't be my answer.

staehpj1 

It has been quite a while since I have been canoe camping. So to be honest I have not really packed all that light on a canoe trip. I did pack moderately light in the Adirondaks a few years back. I tend to use the same spreadsheet as a starting point for both touring and backpacking (it has many options), but it would require a lot more tweaking for a canoe trip (a couple more tabs maybe and some extra items on existing tabs).

Doug64

Just an opinion:

My wife and I generally take some lightweight, but “presentable” clothes on a tour. Where we tour governs how presentable they are.

Many of our tours include flying or train travel to the beginning or coming home at the end. I like have a pair of lightweight travel pants and a nice shirt to wear. My long sleeve sun-shirt works well for both riding and flying. My wife has her outfit dialed in.

When we tour we don’t avoid large cities, especially if we are in a different country. While we prefer the small towns and rural areas, I believe that spending some time in the larger cities gives me a better feel for the country and its people, food and culture. I like to have something that I can wear in a nice restaurant or museum. We’ve toured through 11 countries and have visited many of their largest cities. I also think that even in small towns it is a show of respect to dress appropriate to the setting. Sometimes I don't quite reach that bar. Sure, it is OK to wear cycling garb for breakfast or lunch, or even for dinner if I’m still on the road. But I don’t think showing up at a restaurant in cycling clothes if staying at a hotel or in a nearby campground is appropriate.

There are a lot of places where a pair of shorts and a T-shirt are the things to wear.

My wife often takes this light weight, cool, dress.

indyfabz

^^*This^^^

When I toured Andalucia I stayed everywhere from beach campgrounds to Sevilla and Córdoba. I packed a decent (but lite) pair of long pants and a long sleeve shirt with a collar. I remember putting on my rain pants and jacket to enter a bar/restaurant while en route to a campground because it was crowded with older folks who had probably come from Sunday services. I didn’t want to offend anyone.

Tourist in MSN

I do not do 45 min trips in a museum, but I wear my bike clothes in restaurants on travel days. Mostly I was talking about taking a day for sightseeing in civies. I am there to enjoy the trip, the bike is my means of travel in the outdoors, and I like camping.

Most of my tours have had all day long days of sightseeing where I did not travel to another place for the night, but my travel days are usually not spent on sightseeing either. There have been a few days where I only traveled a half day, made camp or got to the hostel, and then spent the rest of that day sightseeing, after I clean up and change to civies.

I just looked at my schedule for my last tour:
Arrive in Halifax NS. It took 30 hours to get there from Madison WI. Planned to stay 2 nights, includes food shopping, butane shopping, packing, extended to 3 days due to heavy rain.
Rode 5 days.
WInd bound 1 day. Very dull campground with nothing to see.
Rode 1 day.
Wind bound 1 day. National Park on Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island, but not much to see.
Rode 6 days.
Wind and rain 2 days, campground in Antigonosh (spell?), NS, no real sightseeing but did laundry and some shopping.
Rode 6 days. The last two days was the start of a six day rainy stretch.
Sightseeing and rain 2 days, stayed at a Hostel in Charlottetown PEI. (This was on Canada Day weekend.) This was not part of my plan, this was a spur of the moment decision when I saw a forecast of 5 days of continuous rain (it actually was 6 days), the hostel was not full so made a reservation.
Rode 3 days. (First day was rain.)
Was ahead of schedule, did 3 days sightseeing in a Provincial Park on Bay of Fundy, as I needed to waste some time and this was a really nice park with hiking trails for that.
Rode 3 days.
Arrive in Halifax, stayed a couple nights at the hostel before flying home. Did some sightseeing.

Thus, rode 24 days, stuck for 6 due to weather but did some sightseeing on a couple of those wet days, and pure sightseeing 3 days. This does not include time in the city with the airport where I started and finished (Halifax, NS). Overall a nice relaxing trip for someone that is 65 years young.

stardognine

Yeah, what's that called? That has to be FAR better than loading up the panniers. 🙄😁

elcruxio

No me you asked, but I'll give my take anyways.

For me it's not civvie clothing but rather having a wash and a fresh set of clothes everyday. That way I don't stink to high heaven even after a full day of riding and can go into a restaurant or museum without having to worry about offending the people around me.

My touring clothes in general are not that cycley as I typically wear a long sleeved collared shirt with bib shorts. Though when entering a restaurant or other establishment I'll put on a pair of baggy shorts as to not be distracting to patrons / employees.

I do carry a full set of civvie clothes (boxers, cotton t-short etc) and a pair of walking shoes for off bike days. You can walk in SPD shoes, but they're not great for 20+ kilometer distances, hence the extra shoes.

indyfabz

He’s talking about changing into street clothes mid-ride for something like a meal and then changing back to finish the ride.

As mentioned above, I have covered up but have never changed into street clothes mid-ride and then back into my riding clothes.

staehpj1 

I am more likely to do 45 minute stops in museums or other points of interest. Full day stops are pretty rare for me. Most weeks there will be none. I think we took one full day on the Trans America and even on that day rode a few miles to a new camp. On the ST, I don't recall taking any days off. I did take a week in the Yosemite Valley on the SC to hike and sight see, I took a day once to just enjoy the area in Oregon, and I took a couple days in Dodge City sick as a dog debating bailing on the trip. I don't recall any bad weather days off. I had some fairly horrendous weather but typically got bored and rode by mid day any way even during a deluge. I will say that I have been lucky to have not had too many really bad weather days other than extreme heat and forest fire smoke. My luck with those has been poor. I have had a good bit of cool to cold weather, but not bad enough that I minded. I don't mind overnight sub freezing temps especially if it warms to the 50s during the day which it usually has on my tours.

I tend to spend my touring days riding every day with breaks during the day spent enjoying the scenery, taking short hikes where available, talking to the local folks or other riders, or maybe checking out touristy stuff. I do all that but the riding is central to all of it. I don't think of it as a vacation where the bike is my transportation. I think of it as a ride from point A to point B. All the good stuff along the way just automatically goes along with that.

GadgetGirlIL

Bike plus gear (including waist pack) = 56 pounds. This picture was taken without my lights, GPS, camera and a few other items not on the bike. I just loaded everything on it for this weekend's overnight and hauled out the bathroom scale. The bike probably weighs around 25 pounds when I ride with just a few bags to hold tools and food. So about 31 or so pounds of gear. Rider plus clothing and shoes is ~174 pounds. Glad I lost the Covid pounds.

I will be staying in hotels every evening.

staehpj1 

I just had a thought on apropriateness/inapropriateness of clothing when wearing clothes from athletic activities in restaurants and so on. It occurred to me that my bike clothes were probably no worse than stuff I wore in the past after activities when I stopped for a drink or a meal. I recall the distant past stopping for a beer and maybe a burger in a bar next to the take out of a whitewater river. We'd stop in wearing sopping wet river gear PFD sprayskirt and all. It wouldn't even occur to me that I was wearing a big survival knife on my chest. Probably a wonder we didn't get thrown out. It was a biker bar though so dress code was no doubt lax. Similarly I have had many a stop after muddy trail rides on dirt bikes or mountain bikes. Again never gave it much thought. Maybe I was rude. If so I wasn't the only one.

I figure that folks generally understand that you are doing some active sport that means you won't be dress up to social norms. Most will cut you some slack.

To be clear I wouldn't have stopped in at a place that was real fancy. That helps in having some slack. I have eaten in nicer places in my running shorts, sometimes over tights and with a tech tee or maybe my warm shirt in the early evening after a shower. I go before rush and if I am that worried about how I am dressed I might explain my situation and ask. I have never been turned away and if I got hard looks I didn't notice. Starting with something like "I am riding across the country and..." generally opens doors. I imagine you can't play that card on short tours,

boomhauer

If you are bike touring in a dry environment (low humidity) you don't have to worry so much about stinkng up a restaurant.
This is one of my concerns because everyone watches you dismount you bike and walk into the restaurant.
In arizona, or such, I discovered this wasn't too much of a concern. In Missouri, in the summer, I worry about it.
A collared shirt seems to garner more respect no matter where I'm at. Weird.

mev

An anecdote on bicycle clothing...

In 1995, there was a car ferry between Portland Maine and Yarmouth Nova Scotia.

That year I had cycled the US Atlantic Coast from Key West to Saint John New Brunswick and decided I would cap things off with a short trip over Labor Day Weekend: Drive to Portland, overnight ferry to Yarmouth, cycle to Halifax and then fly back to Portland via Boston.

It turns out the ferry company had figured out a new technique of marketing the Portland/Yarmouth trip as a mini-cruise to those in Maine: back and forth with a day in Yarmouth and gambling in international waters.

As I boarded the ferry with my bike, there were staff with drinks with umbrellas. I overheard one woman go up and discretely inquire about the dress code at dinner on this cruise. Fortunately a somewhat non-committal response.

However, it did have me thinking, I hope I don't end up accidentally at her table to destroy that cruise experience...

Now as far as ultra-light goes, I probably err on side of bringing a little too much than too little. With electronic toys and avoiding past breakdowns contributing. However, also agree whether lightweight or not - one wants to prepare appropriately.

For example on that tablets vs filter discussion I'll just note that I've done some cycling in arid regions where there isn't groundwater to either treat or filter so in those cases I also bring extra water as appropriate. For example in both northern Australia and Western Argentina there were places with more than one day ride between water points. So lightweight or not, it was prudent to have water...