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I've done my research and looking for feedback on a new touring bike

Old 12-07-22, 02:09 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
17mph vs 17.01mph was meant to show that while one speed is faster than the other, that doesnt give a full picture as to which is best. If the 'slower' tire is more comfortable then perhaps the .01mph is worth giving up.

Me pushing back is because of the firm insistence that someone shouldnt go above 35mm. It may be a barrier that you want to stay under, but its quite arbitrary since some 38mm tires roll faster than some 35mm tires. And the rest- well its just been pseudo intelligent justifications for you being so rigid.
Your main argument, that aerodynamics and weight is somehow a big issue, is a joke.


Oh, and I have 35mm tires on my commute/tour bike right now.
17mph vs 17.01mph is the same logical fallacy I just explained to you. If you can't comprehend it I'm not sure if there is any more point in me explaining again.
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Old 12-07-22, 02:21 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
You can end your post right there. All the rest is just filler.

If you don't care about faster, good for you. That's your personal choice.
I'm confused. You're here arguing for fast but as I've understood you ride marathon plusses? That's not a fast tire. Surprisingly fast for what it is yes but still a slow tire.

If you truly cared about fast you'd be riding tubeless supple tires and wouldn't be so concerned about width. Width matters less than tire choice.

Personally I like my tires 40+mm because I've only ever done road tours in developed countries and by doing so racked thousands of clicks of gravel. It would seem that the most interesting routes are often gravel.
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Old 12-07-22, 02:27 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
I'm confused. You're here arguing for fast but as I've understood you ride marathon plusses? That's not a fast tire. Surprisingly fast for what it is yes but still a slow tire.

If you truly cared about fast you'd be riding tubeless supple tires and wouldn't be so concerned about width. Width matters less than tire choice.

Personally I like my tires 40+mm because I've only ever done road tours in developed countries and by doing so racked thousands of clicks of gravel. It would seem that the most interesting routes are often gravel.
I use different tires depending on the terrain I'm expecting to experience on a particular tour. I have some Marathon Pluses in the closet yes, but I also have some Marathon Supremes. I have 21mm road tires too that I use for credit card tours. Different tour, different tires depending on conditions.

I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
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Old 12-07-22, 02:41 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
I use different tires depending on the terrain I'm expecting to experience on a particular tour. I have some Marathon Pluses in the closet yes, but I also have some Marathon Supremes. I have 21mm road tires too that I use for credit card tours. Different tour, different tires depending on conditions.

I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
So take a bottle and fill em and pump em at destination.

21mm is obsolete. Not even the pro's use 21mm anymore. That's track width these days. There really isn't a single good reason for 21mm on the road.
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Old 12-07-22, 03:05 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
So take a bottle and fill em and pump em at destination.

21mm is obsolete. Not even the pro's use 21mm anymore. That's track width these days. There really isn't a single good reason for 21mm on the road.
Obsolete since what cutoff date? I've had these tires in my closet for going on ten years. They rarely get used. But I'm not going to throw a pair of tires out just because I saw something on TV. They will be thrown out when they are worn out or when they rot from age, whichever is earlier.
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Old 12-07-22, 03:19 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
I use different tires depending on the terrain I'm expecting to experience on a particular tour. I have some Marathon Pluses in the closet yes, but I also have some Marathon Supremes. I have 21mm road tires too that I use for credit card tours. Different tour, different tires depending on conditions.

I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
Ok, this explains a lot and makes discussing the topic further a dumb thing to do.


Hey OP- good luck on finding the bike you want. A Fairlight Faran would be sweet!

I clearly didnt stay away from the touring forum long enough.
All this thread needs is cycco to chime in.
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Old 12-07-22, 03:35 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ok, this explains a lot and makes discussing the topic further a dumb thing to do.


Hey OP- good luck on finding the bike you want. A Fairlight Faran would be sweet!

I clearly didnt stay away from the touring forum long enough.
All this thread needs is cycco to chime in.
​​​​​
I bought them years ago when I was an expat in China riding their ungodly perfect roads. Now I'm back and these tires don't see much use. As I keep saying, ride tires that suit the condition.

​​​​​
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Old 12-07-22, 03:41 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Touring is the new General.
Because Yan showed up
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Old 12-07-22, 04:28 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
An interesting google search, however, when you actually do the math and add approximately 400 grams to the wheels. Then accelerate to say 30 km/h the amount of so-called additional energy required is approximately 3 watts. Your constant exaggeration and selective use of facts are silly. But since you like the google defense please review (https://www.renehersecycles.com/tire...-vs-real-road/) and point out the flaws with the logic.
And once you are at speed, the extra mass act like a flywheel in a car, which makes maintaining the speed easier.
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Old 12-07-22, 04:31 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
Because Yan showed up
Looking like another add for the ignore pile.
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Old 12-07-22, 04:34 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
Because Yan showed up
Canít ignore that, and how, others chose to respond.

Time to bounce.
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Old 12-07-22, 04:41 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Gord, the other poster, complained that a sloping top tube of more than 2" is ugly and limits use.


This bike is a gravel 2x 29er I guess, so reasonable enough to call it speced to be a tour bike. This seat is way up for a basketball player type it looks like, 3" above the stem, not normal at all. The rack mount height isn't bad at all compared to the high tires. It's slope isn't much more than 2", hardly any resemblance to Surly Troll type bikes that have a brace at the seat tube/ TT joint. Does that make sense?? NO.
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Old 12-07-22, 04:49 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
This bike is a gravel 2x 29er I guess, so reasonable enough to call it speced to be a tour bike. This seat is way up for a basketball player type it looks like, 3" above the stem, not normal at all. The rack mount height isn't bad at all compared to the high tires. It's slope isn't much more than 2", hardly any resemblance to Surly Troll type bikes that have a brace at the seat tube/ TT joint. Does that make sense?? NO.
My road bikes and gravel bike have 3" of saddle to bar drop. It's quite common to see, actually.
My touring bike has 2.5" of saddle to bar drop.

^ that is determined by body geometry- arm length, torso length, and leg length. Your ignorance thru judgment is showing out big time.

As for you saying that tip tube angle isn't much, it's more than the amount you said looks bad, which is why I posted it- to show it actually isn't bad looking. Can you even follow your own criticism?
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Old 12-07-22, 11:32 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
My road bikes and gravel bike have 3" of saddle to bar drop. It's quite common to see, actually.
My touring bike has 2.5" of saddle to bar drop.

^ that is determined by body geometry- arm length, torso length, and leg length. Your ignorance thru judgment is showing out big time.

As for you saying that tip tube angle isn't much, it's more than the amount you said looks bad, which is why I posted it- to show it actually isn't bad looking. Can you even follow your own criticism?
That Fairlight is pretty nice I think I am close to sold on it. Reynolds 853, plenty of tire clearance or so it seems. 2x compatible, a nice looking Carbon fork with internal dynamo and brake routing (though curious on max rotor size they say 140/160 but no max listed) and it looks quite clean. The Faran which is 631 and has a Surly style zit fork is pretty nice as well I wish they had the head tube of this on the Secan and I would Secan and destroy my bank account to buy one. I could swap the fork with one of those Cinq forks or Rodeo Sporks which I think can do 180 but at least can mount racks.

Back to your topic most of my road bikes have a similar saddle to bar drop though I am kind of liking something a little less droppy these days. Like you said it is all based in body geometry and of course your own comfort but that is again heavily based back into fit. I know people who are most comfortable in those more "aero" positions and I know people who are riding a chopper heck I have seen one guy who has long arms and bars probably 2 feet up and he rides a lot and seems comfortable.
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Old 12-11-22, 10:45 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Hi everyone,

I've done a ton of research, read the magazines, watched a lot of touring videos on YouTube and been to the bike shops. I'd like to find out what is popular among the crowd here for primarily road touring with a "Little bit of gravel or off-road" versus a straight "adventure bike", one that can do it all.

On the road side I'm leaning toward a Fairlight.
On the adventure side I'm leaning toward a Surly, Kona or Salsa, with Surly leading the pack.

I'm a big rider, 6' 1" and 220. I'm 64 and ride every day and backpack and hike all the time too. I used to work in bike shops for years when I was a young man so I know my way around bikes but have never "toured".

Money is not a concern. I want a bike that is rugged and can take the punishment at the sacrifice of some added weight. Steel is almost a must, aluminum maybe but carbon is out.

For those that tour on roads, what do you ride and for those that adventure bike, what do you ride. I'm talking long tours here, 800+ miles.


---
So what are you getting? My $.02 ruling out frame materials is kinda silly since design and geometry determines optimum use. Determine your preferred riding posture and make the seat/bars fit that. Make sure the tires have air. Once youíre riding all the stuff about specs doesnít matter. What other people ride is what other people ride.
Do you know where you like the bars to be relative to the seat? Do you have a preference for drops or upright bars? If you havenít figured that out then the other stuff is putting the cart before the horse.
From my old and out of shape perspective 90% of popular bike design is skewed towards high energy output and responsive handling that 75% of the riding public doesnít have the skills to utilize. I used to race in my 20ís and owned a bike shop during the 80ís and presently have a 26Ē wheel Surly LHT, Rivindell ClemSmithJr, Surly Cross Check, REI DRT 2.2. The CrossCheck has drop bars and the rest Jones bars.
I wouldnít look to four panniers for light touring.
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Old 12-11-22, 12:02 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Thanks for the feedback folks.

Not interested in "ultra light" touring, at this point. I'll lose more pounds off my middle section instead of cutting weight off the bike. Off the body doesn't cost a dime.
Not a fan of titanium or carbon so that alone usually keeps costs in control....generally....
Not a fan of Rohloff.
I'll probably opt for a more lightly weighted 4x panniers setup instead of two heavy bags.
Agree with stardognine, I like wide tires so probably 37's minimum..and coupled with a steel frame it's a pretty smooth ride already. My daily exercise bike is a Wabi Special with 30's.

My goal is not break neck speed but take my time and enjoy the ride, nature and people. I like to fly fish and I'm a photo buff also so going to make time for that. That extra gear weight will be spread across the 4x panniers. When I backpack in the wilderness for 3 to 10 days I carry a 70L pack, which includes room for my camera and fishing gear. I go pretty light but that's carrying everything on my back. I figure spreading the weight around 4x panneirs would be best for balance on the bike. I'm all ears if folks think differently though. Remember, I'm a back packer but not a bike tourer so I have a lot to learn.

I'll probably do some "credit card" touring through some areas but will be camping in between.
What is the weight you would carry in a 70L pack?
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Old 12-12-22, 11:03 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
What is the weight you would carry in a 70L pack?
I did a week in Glacier National Park with 55 lbs. gross weight. IIRC, the pack is 85L. My guide carried 78 lbs. gross in his big Dana Designs pack. That was way back in Ď03. Today, my tent and sleeping bag alone would shave probably 5 lbs.
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Old 12-12-22, 03:37 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
What is the weight you would carry in a 70L pack?
When I did Glacier Waterton loop with ACA about a decade ago, I had a pair of Ortlieb front loaders (25 liters), pair or back loaders (40 liters) and a handlebar bag (roughly 5 liters) that summed up to about 59 pounds including the pannier weight and empty handlebar bag weight. I also had another rack top bag, but not citing the weight of that as that would exceed the 70 liter criteria you specified. This does not include the rack weights and does not include water bottle weights.

One day I got very bored waiting at the campground for others to roll in, since I had a luggage scale with me I measured the weights, thus have a rather precise weight for those specific bags. That is the only time that I have actually measured my bag weights on a trip.

ADDENDUM ADDED A DAY LATER:

Some people on this forum compare backpacking gear with bike touring gear. I am much more careful about weight with backpacking, as that weight is on my feet, not on wheels. This past summer did two weeks of backpacking. My 70 liter pack weighed about 42 pounds at the start, that included about 12 pounds of food (6 days of food, re-supplied another 6 days of food after a week) and about 3 pounds of water. The empty weight of that backpack is 5 pounds and 1 oz. Subtracting food, water, and pack weight, the contents of the 70 liter pack was about 22 pounds. Thus, for backpacking my weight is a lot lighter than the bike touring weight cited above.

Last edited by Tourist in MSN; 12-13-22 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 12-12-22, 08:33 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
When I did Glacier Waterton loop with ACA about a decade ago.
Heh. I did that loop with the GF back in Ď09. Except for one three day trip, I hadnít done a tour sinceí00. Roosville, Sparwood, Pincher Creek then Waterton Village, where we were supposed to have a rest day. We learned that the west side of Logan was not going to be open, so we rode to St. Mary the next day and then did a century around the park to W. Glacier and on to Sprague Creek Campground so we would at least have a chance to ride some of the west slope of GTS. The GF was so spent she walked into the menís room by accident.

While the east side didnít open, we were able to make it to Logan Pass sans gear and then back down. Had a great meal at the lodge that night. Headed back to Whitefish the day after that.

I donít know how much weight I was carrying, but it was a lot. The 3P tent was 6.5 lbs. Fun trip.
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Old 12-12-22, 09:39 PM
  #95  
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What is the weight you would carry in a 70L pack?
With camera and fishing gear from 50 to 60 lbs on a 5 day trip. On a 3 day trip I carry less food so I take a smaller pack but it still weighs around 45 to 50 pounds with the same gear.
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Old 12-12-22, 09:43 PM
  #96  
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So what are you getting?
I haven't made up my mind yet but leaning toward a Surly Disk Trucker or the Fairlight Secan, but I need to call them to see if the Secan can handle quad panniers.
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Old 12-13-22, 10:32 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
With camera and fishing gear from 50 to 60 lbs on a 5 day trip. On a 3 day trip I carry less food so I take a smaller pack but it still weighs around 45 to 50 pounds with the same gear.
Wow, good for you. I never wanted more than 30-35 lbs.
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Old 12-13-22, 09:49 PM
  #98  
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Wow, good for you. I never wanted more than 30-35 lbs.
​​​​​​​

Yeah, minus the camera and fishing gear my pack would weigh about the same.
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Old 12-16-22, 08:23 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
I haven't made up my mind yet but leaning toward a Surly Disk Trucker or the Fairlight Secan, but I need to call them to see if the Secan can handle quad panniers.
The Secan fork is not built to handle front panniers. It is built to hold 'anything' cages and a max of 3kg per blade.

The Faran frame with its steel fork is designed to handle a front rack and panniers.
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