Rob63

I'm planning to install bar end shifters to a mid 90's Trek 520, currently with a 3 x 7 speed cassette. I intend to use friction as my means of gearing, and because I intend to use friction, does it matter if I buy a 3x8 or 3x9 or any other bar end shifter size? Won't it work regardless?

veganbikes

Just get friction shifters. If you are sticking with friction you are going to get better shifters if you just get pure friction shifters. This is what I would recommend: https://www.gevenalle.com/product/audax/ integrated shifters and brake levers but without the complexities of STI or Ergopower or Doubletap and the good reliability of bar end or downtube shifters.

irc

You are correct. It doesn't matter. 3*8 or 3*9 friction bar ends are moving the derailleur the same total distance across the cassette. So either will friction shift on a 7 speed cassette as it is not any wider.

Yan 

No, bar end shifters are not universally compatible in friction mode. Some bar end shifters do not pull enough cable through their range of motion. See below:
Do bar end (barcon) shifters have different pull ratios? Max?

You'll be fine with that 7 speed cassette though.

But why not get an indexed bar end shifter? What's the negative? They are dual mode and can be set to friction whenever you want.

Tourist in MSN

Shimano derailleurs, 8 and 9 speed are the same. Only the shifters are different. I do not know about 7 speed but I would be surprised if it was different. (Dura Ace 8 speed might be different.)

Shimano 8 speed shifter pulls 2.8mm of cable per shift, Shimano 9 speed pulls 2.5mm per shift and 7 speed pulls 2.9mm of cable. (Dura Ace 8 speed is different.)

I think any friction shifter that will work with 7 or 8 or 9 will work with the other speeds, but a 7 speed shifter might pull less total cable so that might not.

Note that a 9 speed shifter does not pull much cable at all per shift at only 2.5mm, so if you are shifting friction only, the 9 speed might be a bit more fiddly to shift.

The front shifters on the Shimano 8 and 9 speed bar end shifter sets were friction only. It you can only find the front shifters (some bike coops have buckets of old parts, I think the front are more common to find used than the rear), the front shifter might work fine for either 7, 8 or 9 in the rear if you really want it to be friction.

I am not sure why you want it to be friction only, I have three bikes with 8 speed rear indexed Shimano BS64 bar end shifters (they are getting hard to find) that work great in indexed mode. I would not want to go back to the days of friction for rear shifting.

RH Clark

I would get a 10 speed friction shifter. It should pull enough cable for anything, at least up to 10 sp. Just in case you want to change up later. Your rear derailleur would determine the amount. I've used Microshift's 10 speed shifter that does click or friction both road and mountain. I've interchanged them in friction mode. It's my favorite way to shift.
The reason I prefer friction is because once you master all the nuisances, you have zero shifting problems ever again. As long as your derailers are set correctly the only thing that can go wrong is you. I have one bike that has rusted exposed cables. I keep telling myself it needs new cables, but it keeps shifting perfect. Now I want to see just how far they can go without breaking.

79pmooney

My one dip into the index world was with the SunTour Command shifters. No better than OK with SunTour FWs (1995 so very early index) and just barely worked with the Sachs FWs I used as the SunTours got hard to find. Yes there was friction mode and it worked, but ... in friction mode it was mediocre, nowhere near the high standards I always saw from SunTour and expect.

Good friction is a joy to use once you've learned. Better that straight friction are the ratchet shifters (SunTour Power) and I hear, the retro-spring shifters. If I were going to bar-end shifters, I'd look for the Command shifters. I raced them in the '70s and have them on a couple of bikes now. Last pair I bought used. Took it apart to rebuild. So, so simple inside they look like they should last centuries of daily use, re-built every 15-20 years.

Never really thought about those Power shifters a lot before now, but they really should go on the list of bike parts to be made to eternity like the Mafac RACER calipers. Only re-designed to more teeth (and better metal if that is needed for the additional and now smaller teeth). Smaller teeth for finer clicks to go with 9-speed and higher cassettes. Might need to adjust barrel size for more cable pull also.

Tourist in MSN

If you mean the Shimano bar end shifters of the 1980s, I used some. They had a spring in the shifter to counter the spring in the derailleur, so they had a light touch. But, I had to keep adjusting the friction on them, it did not stay in adjustment. So, the frequent adjustment was a clear downfall on them. This says 1970s, but I thought I bought mine in the 1980s, so maybe they were old stock.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...d3c5b&Enum=104

I never owned the Suntour ratchet ones, but a friend had them and was very happy with them.

Rob63

Are most dual mode?

Rob63

Hm. Interesting option. A little pricey for me right now, but you've got me thinking ...

phughes

I run the Silver1 by Rivendell. I used the bar end pods that came on my LHT. They now have Silver2 shifters. You can buy the bar end pods from them as well. The Silver shifters are very nice. They are friction only and have a ratchet inside like the old SunTour shifters.
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting

79pmooney

I was thinking the French ones whose manufacturer has slipped my mind. I've never had either in my hands.

veganbikes

It is well worth it. I have them on my touring bike and wouldn't want anything different (at least functionality wise, would love SRAM S500 levers instead of the Tektros) In the end if the functionality and rideablity of the bike improves and you will have the bike long term then the cost is low. If this is a temporary stop gap then it might be expensive. I always look at long term cost as the most important.

Yan 

The ones made by Shimano and Microshift are.

Jeff Neese

The short answer to your question is yes, it will work. That's the beauty of friction shifters - they're damn near universal. I use Dia-Compe ENE shifters on an 8 speed cassette, and even on the lowest gear there is still more room to pull cable. (It stops because of the limit screw on the derailluer, not because the lever is at maximum pull). I have them on a 6 speed bike as well as the 8 speed.

If you want to do index shifting then there are compatibility issues, but that's not what you asked.

RH Clark

Just an FYI, I love this derailleur.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/shi...-rd-m310-17167

I use it with my friction shifters on a Miyata 610. It works great with 3 sets of wheels, The original 27" with 6 speed, A 700c set with a 7 speed mega range and a 700c set with 9 speed.
It's just too good for how cheap it is.

Rob63

Thanks. That's what I wanted to hear. I just didn't want to buy bar ends and not have them work.

Rob63

I just got this at a local bike co-op (left one only), and a lead on the right one. I'm doing some reading and it may not be compatible, even in friction mode. It seems most bar ends would be compatible, but maybe not this one specifically?

sloar 

I’ve used the old Suntour Barcons with 9 and 10 speed cassettes with no problems.

djb

Rob, have you used friction shifting before, ie or are you 20 something and keen on it because Russ from pathlesspedaled does it, or did you use it 40 or 50 years ago like some of us and yearn for the persnickety shifting days?
Serious question.

If you are going to spend money on new ones, I'd suggest getting microshift ones, let's say 9 speed minimum, so you can do the retro friction thing, but in future perhaps use them in index mode on another bike.
You should find with 7 speed that they shift well.
I personally haven't friction shifted since the 80s, indexing just plain works, but have at it if you want.

Rob63

Fair question. I'm a little of all of the above. I've used friction most of my life, and index for the last ten or so. I've been touring for a few years and am planning a 6 month tour next year and so am setting up an older bike. I also prefer to work with systems I understand and can repair if need be - be it friction or index. Money is always an issue so am asking questions to support my decisions. I'm not a luddite but do prefer simpler tech, especially when slow touring is my objective.Thanks for your clear and direct recommendation - it is appreciated.

djb

np, I have 9 spd microshift stuff that came on my Gevenalle shifters that I put on my touring bike, also for same reason as you, wanted a simple system for long trips. Only caveat is that I didnt feel like going bar end shifters, and took a chance buying the gevenalles, figuring I could sell them if I didnt like them--but liked them right away and still like them after I guess 6 years now--but they werent cheap, a good 200 bucks.
Ive never set them to friction, never had an urge, not even to try out. (heck, even my tourer I bought in 1990 or 91 with downtube index 7 spd shifters still shifts perfectly well after all these years, never ever gave me a problem indexed)

you could be lucky and find some older barends used, Im fairly certain all of them have the option to go to friction, even the shimano ones, but then I guess you have to take into account if they are in good shape if really old. Hit and miss, and frankly, probably not that many out there used, especially after covid and the recentish hip popular thing that has become commonly seen on the web.

Tourist in MSN

I first used bar end shifters (Shimano friction) in the early 1980s, or maybe late 1970s. And I liked them for the same reason that bike touring folk liked them at that time, you had a choice of bar end shifters where you could keep both hands on the handlebars or you could take one hand off the handlebar to shift on the downtube.

And I bought my first set of indexed bar end shifters in 2004 (indexed in rear, friction front). And I have been sold on indexed rear shifting ever since. I have Shimano, not Microshift. And I can adjust them to work in friction if I chose to, but do not do so.

If you get the Microshift ones, you might want to put a dab of removable (blue) thread locker on the screw that holds them together. More on that here, I mentioned that as a possible solution in post 8, someone with more experience than me confirmed that in post 17:
Front friction shifter problem (Gevenalle)

I like bar end shifters for touring, have them on two touring bikes and also on my folding bike for the reason I mentioned above, you can shift with your hands on the bars. And historically bar end shifters had the reliability box checked. Now, brifters are pretty reliable too, but I am staying with bar ends for touring. My road bike has brifters, front and rear. Rando bike is brifter rear, downtube friction front.

Bar end shifters, I think stainless cables is a must. I always try to buy stainless, but apparently a galvanized one somehow got into my spares collection. And I blame hand sweat for corroding my shifter cable after only four years, photos below.

ThermionicScott 

Simplex Retro-friction? I've heard they'll make friction-shifting believers out of a person.



https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...=104&AbsPos=25

Tourist in MSN

If Simplex made a shifter with a spring to counter the spring in the derailleur, that is news to me. But those look like they have something going on inside them. They are big enough to hide the spring within if they have springs. Before you run out and buy any Simplex, the Simplex shifters that I had experience with had a smaller radius for the groove that the cable sat in, thus the lever moved a much greater angle for a given amount of cable pull.

When I built up my rando bike in winter of 2015/2016, my previous experience with brifters was not favorable but I decided to give a rear brifter another try. Bought a used Campy on Ebay. As a temporary shifter for the front, I put a vintage Huret friction downtube on the bike, the Huret thumbscrew was not a M5 so I needed to use something else. It is still there, so it is no longer temporary. And I eventually decided that I liked the rear brifter, so it is still there too.

I do not mind friction for the front. With a triple crank, you have to get used to figuring out exactly where the lever needs to be for the middle ring, the inner and out rings are simple as the lever is pushed all the way to the stop. Eventually muscle memory is pretty good at getting the middle ring lever position figured out. The old Huret is in the photo below.