Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Gearing down a 3x10?

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Gearing down a 3x10?

Old 09-16-23, 10:22 AM
  #51  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,210
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 969 Times in 792 Posts
just an example of a cassette, and yes there are often close ones with triples, but it depends on the specifics

this was just to illustrate gearing.
djb is offline  
Old 09-16-23, 12:26 PM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,189

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3456 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 1,133 Posts
Originally Posted by L134
So many essentially duplicate gears!
Sometimes it can be really tough to get rid of them.

You really need to also consider, are those duplicates ones that are so cross chained you would never use them? In a previous post in this thread, I posted this link to the gearing on my light touring bike with an eight speed cassette, and half step plus granny crank.
https://gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS...N=MPH&DV=teeth

That has quite a few duplicates, but since I avoid using the two most cross chained gears on each chainring, I effectively have 18 gears, not 24. All the duplicates disappeared, they are light gray on the graph. I have nice close gear spacing on the upper part of the gearing range where I spend most of my time, and a few widely spaced gears for the steep up hills.

But, sometimes, manufacturers never ran the calculations and sold bikes that are full of duplicates. I ran the numbers before I settled on chainring sizes for my chosen cassette size, so I got rid of the duplicates before they happened.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 09-17-23, 07:30 AM
  #53  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
FYI, I re-measured my cassette, and it is indeed a 12-30.

Also, I've found the critical conversation around 'duplicate gears' somewhat misguided. When I'm in a certain chainring, it's like a 'mode' and I shift up and down within that, dealing with the subtle ups and downs, without ever having to shift both rings at once. If there were no overlaps, then there'd be long stretches where you're changing both rings frequently, and that sucks ass. I've ridden a bike with a setup like that, and in certain kids of terrain it was annoying as hell. So, overlap, to me, is a feature and not a drawback.

And, hopefully not sounding too defensive, but for the people slagging on the high range of this - in 2013 it was one of the first tourers that had discs and brifters rather than rim brakes and barcons. It was marketed as 'a touring bike that's actually a fun ride without a load', with lighter tubing and adjustable chainstays, so the road triple made sense in that context. I didn't really think about it, I just rode it stock, I've been to 18 countries so far and rarely had to walk. (Probably because I also tour using an ultralight bikepacking mentality even when I do use panniers.)

That said, I'm not as fast as I was back then, so I need to gear down a bit. Ten years ago I'd have thrown on a goatlink GRX setup, but I'm getting cheaper as I get closer to retirement, and the time/effort to sell the old group is significant in a small country like Sweden.
schnee is offline  
Old 09-17-23, 11:07 AM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 702

Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 174 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee
So, overlap, to me, is a feature and not a drawback.
And, to me, this is one of the great beauties of bicycles - they are so easily and relatively inexpensively adaptable in so many ways to our own personal preferences!
L134 is offline  
Old 09-19-23, 07:06 AM
  #55  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,210
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 969 Times in 792 Posts
hiya, I just remembered something I forgot to mention.
Usually with triples, you have about 10 teeth difference in size between chainrings, like your 52/42/30 or a mountain bike 42 jor 44/32/22 or thereabouts. When you have bigger differences between chainring sizes, like when I changed my 50/39/30 to a 26, there is now a 13 tooth difference to when I switch from mid to small ring, A long time ago I changed my first touring bike from a 50/40/28 to a 50/40/24 to get lower gearing, so 16t difference.
Especially with that 16t difference, you tend to have to shift up two gears at the back when going to the small chainring, and with my present 13t difference, I often shift two gears up also, or one if I am slowing down quickly on an uphill.

not a big deal, and easy with sti shifters, but you just want to be aware of this if you have more than the more typical 10 more or less teeth difference between chainrings.

For me, this slight inconvenience is totally fine, and having lower climbing gears is the more important thing.
It is easy when coming to a steep climb, to just get part way down the cassette in the mid ring, then at the right cadence, just switch to the small chainring, click up a gear or two and then as you slow down more on the climb, keep shifting down at the rear again.
Pretty standard triple riding that has all the advantages of a triple with touring.
djb is offline  
Likes For djb:
Old 09-19-23, 01:57 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanks, noted. I'm looking into options now.
schnee is offline  
Old 09-20-23, 02:26 PM
  #57  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee
Thanks, noted. I'm looking into options now.
I just got done (20 min ago) swapping my 3x9 Tiagra road triple 50/39/30 to a Sugino XD2/XD600 48/36/26. I was hoping to do it with the existing FD, but I couldn't get good indexed shifting so I bought an old FD-M510 derailleur and it seems to be working much better. I've had a 11-34 cassette shifted by a Shimano XT RD-772. I originally had STI/brifters but went flat bar a few years back. Was using a JTEK shiftmate for the front.
Smitty2k1 is offline  
Old 10-03-23, 08:56 PM
  #58  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1

Bikes: Trek Pilot 5.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Changes I made

I have an Ultegra triple that started with 30, 39 and 52 chain rings. My LBS provided me a 26 inner ring.

i also switched the rear derailleur to an XT 9 speed, the cable pull is the same as 10 speed road.

i installed a 11 - 36 Shimano mountain cassette 10 speed.

a new longer chain was also installed.

Last edited by Robert S; 10-03-23 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Robert S is offline  
Likes For Robert S:
Old 10-04-23, 08:30 AM
  #59  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Hautes-Pyrénées
Posts: 117

Bikes: Saracen Conquest. Claud Butler Majestic. Viking VK500. Crossmaxx 28" Pinion.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 20 Posts
I've just realised I have forgotten to mention that the Sturmey Archer CS-RK3 can be inserted into the transmission, providing 33% up or 25% down from a direct drive gearing. It isn't guaranteed that the existing cassette will fit onto it, or that the chainline will be unaffected, but it may be simpler than buying new cassette/chainring/derailleur componentry. In general, for efficiency, direct drive is used in all cases, except when a granny gear is needed for steep ascents, or an overdrive for high speed descents,
Xavier65 is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 08:49 AM
  #60  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,210
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 969 Times in 792 Posts
Originally Posted by Robert S
I have an Ultegra triple that started with 30, 39 and 52 chain rings. My LBS provided me a 26 inner ring.

i also switched the rear derailleur to an XT 9 speed, the cable pull is the same as 10 speed road.

i installed a 11 - 36 Shimano mountain cassette 10 speed.

a new longer chain was also installed.
your triple and my FSA triple both have a bcd that allows this, newer triples do not and the smallest ring is limited physically to a 30t because of the distance between the bolts.
I always forget the bcd numbers, but thats the key thing.
djb is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 08:53 AM
  #61  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 28 Posts
It would be nice if chainrings were available by themselves in a variety of sizes.
Since I increased my cadence during this past summer I find I now very rarely use my large 42T chainring (3x8) (22-32-42 / 11-32).
I'd get more useful gear ranges if I could lower the upper two. And the crank I'm currently looking at (because I can't replace just the rings) is a 22-32-44 which is even worse.
Paul_P is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 10:56 AM
  #62  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,189

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3456 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 1,133 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul_P
It would be nice if chainrings were available by themselves in a variety of sizes.
....
Sometimes they are, but there are a lot of different bolt circle diameter BCD combinations. This can help you figure out what you have, and once you know the specifications, it makes it easier to look for the chainrings you want.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html

I have bought Stronglight and TA chainrings, they are European so you might have to order from Europe, which can raise shipping costs. And for more common sizes, like 110mm BCD five arm, there are lots of choices out there. I bought several that were generic brand for cheap prices several years ago.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 02:08 PM
  #63  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 702

Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 174 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul_P
It would be nice if chainrings were available by themselves in a variety of sizes.
Since I increased my cadence during this past summer I find I now very rarely use my large 42T chainring (3x8) (22-32-42 / 11-32).
I'd get more useful gear ranges if I could lower the upper two. And the crank I'm currently looking at (because I can't replace just the rings) is a 22-32-44 which is even worse.
Check Peter White Cycles.
L134 is offline  
Old 10-12-23, 04:31 PM
  #64  
irc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 117

Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Pacer, Spa Steel Tourer, Kona Kula

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 27 Posts
Spa Cycles deliver to the USA and do a 10 speed compatible triple where you can specify what size rings you want

.https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s109...-TA-chainrings
irc is offline  
Old 10-13-23, 08:51 AM
  #65  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Thanks, but I'm a strong clydesdale, square tapers and I don't get along.

I've regretfully had to put this project off for a bit - my rear wheel can't hold spoke tension for more than two months anymore, so the rear rim is toast. Looks like I'm getting new wheels. (No sense doing them piecemeal.)

On the one hand, damn, there goes my budget. On the other hand, I've literally ridden the wheels off the bike! So, that feels like an accomplishment.

--

Finally, I'm dithering on where to go with gearing. I'm considering everything from swapping in a modern mtb/trekking 3x10 setup, or going wide-range 2x10 GRX with a Sugino 44/30 crank, or just saying 'screw it all' and go 1x Apex. At a certain point, it then becomes a conversation about brifters vs. bar-ends, cable vs. hydraulic brakes, and that starts to look like too much. I'm stuck in analysis paralysis.

I've changed my strategy - I'm just going to start riding it again as much as I can, and take on the issue of the drivetrain if and when it becomes the limiting factor. I'll have a better feel for what I need once I'm on the road enough.

Last edited by schnee; 10-13-23 at 12:12 PM.
schnee is offline  
Old 10-19-23, 08:01 AM
  #66  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,210
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 969 Times in 792 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee
Thanks, but I'm a strong clydesdale, square tapers and I don't get along.

I've regretfully had to put this project off for a bit - my rear wheel can't hold spoke tension for more than two months anymore, so the rear rim is toast. Looks like I'm getting new wheels. (No sense doing them piecemeal.)

On the one hand, damn, there goes my budget. On the other hand, I've literally ridden the wheels off the bike! So, that feels like an accomplishment.

--

Finally, I'm dithering on where to go with gearing. I'm considering everything from swapping in a modern mtb/trekking 3x10 setup, or going wide-range 2x10 GRX with a Sugino 44/30 crank, or just saying 'screw it all' and go 1x Apex. At a certain point, it then becomes a conversation about brifters vs. bar-ends, cable vs. hydraulic brakes, and that starts to look like too much. I'm stuck in analysis paralysis.

I've changed my strategy - I'm just going to start riding it again as much as I can, and take on the issue of the drivetrain if and when it becomes the limiting factor. I'll have a better feel for what I need once I'm on the road enough.
late reply to this.
All the best with future decisions. From the few heavier riders I know, it certainly seems logical to get the right set of wheels for you, just to avoid issues in the future. You'll want to look into hub details in case you ever want to use the wheel for 11 speed--I don't know all these details but might be worth informing yourself now so you don't find yourself limited to 10 speed going forward (I just can't recall the details of which freehub stuff can go to 11 speed)
Going back to cranks, I don't know but it seems a 1x would be rather limiting going from how you say that you ride--but again, good luck going over the pluses and minuses of each option and coming to the right conclusion for you.
cheers . By the way, your written English is excellent, congrats.
djb is offline  
Old 10-19-23, 08:08 AM
  #67  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by irc
Spa Cycles deliver to the USA and do a 10 speed compatible triple where you can specify what size rings you want

.https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s109...-TA-chainrings
​​​​​​​Wow that crankset looks great and seems to be an incredible value. Really wish I knew about this a month or two ago.
Smitty2k1 is offline  
Old 10-19-23, 01:50 PM
  #68  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
All the best with future decisions. From the few heavier riders I know, it certainly seems logical to get the right set of wheels for you, just to avoid issues in the future. You'll want to look into hub details in case you ever want to use the wheel for 11 speed--I don't know all these details but might be worth informing yourself now so you don't find yourself limited to 10 speed going forward (I just can't recall the details of which freehub stuff can go to 11 speed)
Thanks for the warning - I use DT Swiss 350 hubs, so the shells are easily swappable to different standards, so it's fairly futureproof.
schnee is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.