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Miyata 1000 - wheels and hubs

Old 09-25-23, 08:24 PM
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Miyata 1000 - wheels and hubs

Hey everyone
I bought this 1991 model a few months ago and am prepping it for some heavily loaded touring (front and rear panniers) in Europe that I'm planning in the spring - I'm 185 llbs.
Right now, it has...
Front - Matrix Vapor 36 spoke rim, with Shimano Parallax STX RC hub
Rear - the original Araya WO-VX - 300 36 spoke rim, with original Shimano Deore DX hub
I've been doing some research, and I'm thinking that these need to be replaced for what I'm planning. I really don't want to be stuck on the side of a road because of poor decision and little foresight. If I do replace them, I'm thinking a complete wheelset makes the most sense for me and my abilities.
Any recommendations or insight is appreciated.
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Old 09-25-23, 08:54 PM
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I couldn't agree more, a new heavy duty wheelset is worth its weight in gold when touring. You can duct tape and zip tie a lot of problems when touring to get you by, but wheel problems can stop you cold and are not a lot of fun. If you have a competent wheel builder around you, I'm sure he could put together a nice 36 spoke wheelset with the appropriate spaced hubs.
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Old 09-25-23, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
I couldn't agree more, a new heavy duty wheelset is worth its weight in gold when touring. You can duct tape and zip tie a lot of problems when touring to get you by, but wheel problems can stop you cold and are not a lot of fun. If you have a competent wheel builder around you, I'm sure he could put together a nice 36 spoke wheelset with the appropriate spaced hubs.
I figure the rims being single walled to start are not strong enough, but neither is the original rear shimano hub?
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Old 09-25-23, 09:14 PM
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Hard to go wrong with Mavic A 719 or A 319, DT Swiss TK 540, or Velocity Dyad 36 hole rims. If money is tight I would consider Sun Rhyno's or Mavic 119, though they might take a little longer to true up during the build.

And at this point Stuart and other very knowledgeable builders will state that you also can't go wrong with butted spokes. IMO, there are many hubs that would be acceptable.

Last edited by robow; 09-25-23 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 09-25-23, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob63
I figure the rims being single walled to start are not strong enough, but neither is the original rear shimano hub?
Deore DX was shortlived, but quality(what I've read).
I wouldn't hesitate to use a Deore DX hub if it can support the number of cpfs I want on my cassette.

But yeah, get some double walled rims that are well designed and finished. H plus Son Archetype would be another, in addition to what has already been mentioned directly above.
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Old 09-25-23, 11:42 PM
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Velocity dyad. As bulletproof as they come.
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Old 09-26-23, 07:05 AM
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It is getting harder to find a 36 hole rim brake hub, you likely will need to use a disc hub but there is nothing wrong with that in the rear. If you later bought a frame with quick release dropouts and disc mounts, the wheels would transfer over to that so there is an advantage to buying a disc hub.

I am partial to the XT hubs that have steel axles like the M756A. They are reasonably priced. If you do a search for Shimano rear M756A price you find they run about $50. This is an 8 to 10 speed hub. I do not know if that is a 7 speed bike or what it is. If you need to run 7 speed cassette to match a shifter, I think the 8 speed hub can be adapted to work but I am not sure how to do so.

Front, if you will ever want a dynohub, get it now. The cost is the cost of the hub minus the cost of the other hub that you would have bought. But if you get one later, you probably will buy a new wheel, or at least the cost of hub and also spokes. You can run a dynohub with nothing attached to it, so if you got one and prefer to wait before you buy lights or USB chargers, you could. I tour with a SP PV8 front hub. On this forum, there have been three reports of SP failures by forum users, but that is a small number. Dynohubs do not include the skewer, you would need to buy one separately.

Mavic A719, Mavic A319, Velocity Dyad, these are the options I would look at for rims. Those are good for tires in the 28 to 40mm width range.

Butted spokes are better than straight gauge. I used to buy Wheelsmith DB14 spokes but they are no longer made, I have no specific recommendations. The last wheel I built, I used Sapim butted spokes, there was nothing wrong with them and I would probably use them again.
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Old 09-26-23, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
It is getting harder to find a 36 hole rim brake hub....
Harder how? I just looked it up and they are still readily available. You can have a dozen shipped to your door today without much of a fuzz. Now if you are talking 40 hole rims the choices are smaller but not harder to find.
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Old 09-26-23, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by abdon
Harder how? I just looked it up and they are still readily available. You can have a dozen shipped to your door today without much of a fuzz. Now if you are talking 40 hole rims the choices are smaller but not harder to find.
Several models of rear hubs that used to be made in a 36 hole rim brake version are now disc only for 36 hole. You can still get a Deore and a few others, but that probably won't last much longer either since OEM parts now are predominantly through axle.
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Old 09-26-23, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Several models of rear hubs that used to be made in a 36 hole rim brake version are now disc only for 36 hole. You can still get a Deore and a few others, but that probably won't last much longer either since OEM parts now are predominantly through axle.
Mah bad, you be right. I was thinking rims.

There are tons of new old stock 36h hubs all over the place. We are not about to run out of them anytime soon.
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Old 09-26-23, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by abdon
Mah bad, you be right. I was thinking rims.

There are tons of new old stock 36h hubs all over the place. We are not about to run out of them anytime soon.
I built up another dynohub wheel two years ago. I was thinking of future proofing it by buying a through axle hub and also buying the adapters I would need to put it in conventional dropouts with a quick release, but when I saw the higher price for the hub, plus cost of the adapter parts, decided to buy the standard axle version.
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Old 09-26-23, 12:08 PM
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If I had that Miyata 1000 in my hands, I'd place a straight edge over the rim brake tracks and look for the concave shape that indicates wear. Then I would look for cracks at the spoke holes in the rim. Then spin the wheels, dragging a tool over the spokes, No concavity to the brake tracks? No cracks? Nice even sound to the spokes? Is the wheel reasonably true running through the brake blocks with no vertical dips indicating pothole hits? If yes to all - do I really want to jump through all those hoops to replace wheels that are here, work and operate perfectly with everything else?

The world's been circled on single wall rims. These wheels are not junk (assuming those tests I outlined passed). Carry spare spokes (2 for the front and non-drive side rear, 2 for the drive side. Taped under the left chainstay with Scotch tape, they are out of the way and not seen. Run good, largish tires. Perhaps 38c but that might be a little tight in back. I'd have no issues running 35c Paselas front and rear. Pumped to where they squish 1/4 to 1/3 of the rim height unloaded with gear and rider, they'd be ready for just about anything.

The modification I would make (or see that it can be done) is to go friction on the shifters, not index. Then, should the OP be stuck in backwoods wherever in say Eastern Europe, all he has to do to get rolling again after a wheel killer (there are events that will kill any wheel, mega dollars spent doesn't matter) all he needs to do to get rolling again is find a wheel of similar OLD. Adjust the limit screws, brake pads if no longer the original 27" or 700c and ride on. Those shifters - I believe I saw that they were bar end shifters - almost certainly can be set up index or friction. Friction replacements are not hard to find. (Can't imagine Rivendale couldn't get them in your hands in less than 5 days. Probably can be swapped without re-taping the bars.)

All this on the theme of KISS - Keep It Simple, St... A core principal of many successful offshore sailors. Now, if those wheels are run down, abused or poorly made, take the advice of the posters above. (Poorly made - Miyata 1000 - I don't think that would be a winning bet. High end Miyata is good stuff. Says the owner of a Pro Miyata and put 27k on a 610 until I shortened it in a crash. The excellent 610 cantis live on; worn by my custom Mooney.
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Old 09-26-23, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Deore DX was shortlived, but quality(what I've read).
I wouldn't hesitate to use a Deore DX hub if it can support the number of cpfs I want on my cassette.

But yeah, get some double walled rims that are well designed and finished. H plus Son Archetype would be another, in addition to what has already been mentioned directly above.
cpfs?
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Old 09-26-23, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob63
cpfs?
Cogs that are slipping (one keyboard key to the right, then left). Think that makes them confused moderates.
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Old 09-26-23, 05:44 PM
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I wouldn't bother replacing the wheels unless there was some obvious damage to them.
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Old 09-26-23, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
If I had that Miyata 1000 in my hands, I'd place a straight edge over the rim brake tracks and look for the concave shape that indicates wear. Then I would look for cracks at the spoke holes in the rim. Then spin the wheels, dragging a tool over the spokes, No concavity to the brake tracks? No cracks? Nice even sound to the spokes? Is the wheel reasonably true running through the brake blocks with no vertical dips indicating pothole hits? If yes to all - do I really want to jump through all those hoops to replace wheels that are here, work and operate perfectly with everything else?

The world's been circled on single wall rims. These wheels are not junk (assuming those tests I outlined passed). Carry spare spokes (2 for the front and non-drive side rear, 2 for the drive side. Taped under the left chainstay with Scotch tape, they are out of the way and not seen. Run good, largish tires. Perhaps 38c but that might be a little tight in back. I'd have no issues running 35c Paselas front and rear. Pumped to where they squish 1/4 to 1/3 of the rim height unloaded with gear and rider, they'd be ready for just about anything.

The modification I would make (or see that it can be done) is to go friction on the shifters, not index. Then, should the OP be stuck in backwoods wherever in say Eastern Europe, all he has to do to get rolling again after a wheel killer (there are events that will kill any wheel, mega dollars spent doesn't matter) all he needs to do to get rolling again is find a wheel of similar OLD. Adjust the limit screws, brake pads if no longer the original 27" or 700c and ride on. Those shifters - I believe I saw that they were bar end shifters - almost certainly can be set up index or friction. Friction replacements are not hard to find. (Can't imagine Rivendale couldn't get them in your hands in less than 5 days. Probably can be swapped without re-taping the bars.)

All this on the theme of KISS - Keep It Simple, St... A core principal of many successful offshore sailors. Now, if those wheels are run down, abused or poorly made, take the advice of the posters above. (Poorly made - Miyata 1000 - I don't think that would be a winning bet. High end Miyata is good stuff. Says the owner of a Pro Miyata and put 27k on a 610 until I shortened it in a crash. The excellent 610 cantis live on; worn by my custom Mooney.
Lots to the think about here.
On the one hand, buy wheel parts (maybe keep the Shimano DX rear hub), and find someone to build these wheels, or find complete used wheelsets somewhere that is in decent condition.
Or, as you are suggesting, figure it out - I just don't know if I know enough to KISS. I did check the rear wheel brake tracks, slightly concave (too concave?), no cracks, no major evidence of wear. I will be riding in slow touring mode (20 km/hr tops), so if the wheel does give, it will die slowly and safely...these are some of my thoughts.
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Old 09-26-23, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob63
Lots to the think about here.
On the one hand, buy wheel parts (maybe keep the Shimano DX rear hub), and find someone to build these wheels, or find complete used wheelsets somewhere that is in decent condition.
Or, as you are suggesting, figure it out - I just don't know if I know enough to KISS. I did check the rear wheel brake tracks, slightly concave (too concave?), no cracks, no major evidence of wear. I will be riding in slow touring mode (20 km/hr tops), so if the wheel does give, it will die slowly and safely...these are some of my thoughts.
Just found this on another forum...so my comment above about the wheel being slightly concave may be part of the original design and not a sign of wear after all.
​​​​​​
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Old 09-26-23, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob63
Lots to the think about here.
On the one hand, buy wheel parts (maybe keep the Shimano DX rear hub), and find someone to build these wheels, or find complete used wheelsets somewhere that is in decent condition.
Or, as you are suggesting, figure it out - I just don't know if I know enough to KISS. I did check the rear wheel brake tracks, slightly concave (too concave?), no cracks, no major evidence of wear. I will be riding in slow touring mode (20 km/hr tops), so if the wheel does give, it will die slowly and safely...these are some of my thoughts.
Tell us how deep the concave is on your brake tracks. Rims good for side to side wobble as you spin them? Do you have a good mechanic in town? Consider having him assess them and better the true if needed and wheels are keepers for touring. That shouldn't cost much. (You would be smart to have him do the same for any used wheels you pick up .)

Bicycles aren't rocket science. And with older technologies you can find bright people who can fix or improvise your bike throughout the world. And you might get a roof over your head and a dinner in the process.
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Old 09-27-23, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Tell us how deep the concave is on your brake tracks. Rims good for side to side wobble as you spin them? Do you have a good mechanic in town? Consider having him assess them and better the true if needed and wheels are keepers for touring. That shouldn't cost much. (You would be smart to have him do the same for any used wheels you pick up .)

Bicycles aren't rocket science. And with older technologies you can find bright people who can fix or improvise your bike throughout the world. And you might get a roof over your head and a dinner in the process.
Hard to measure but I'd say 1 or 2 mm in concave space. I think I'll take your advice and have a good mechanic make a judgement on them. Thanks.
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Old 09-28-23, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob63
cpfs?
Cogs.

Wow, that first attempt of mine wasn't close.
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Old 10-03-23, 08:30 PM
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Now head over to the Classic & Vintage section and start a thread about the bike to show off some photos
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