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Move up to a larger frame size?

Old 11-04-23, 01:48 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Paul_P
I've read a lot about the saddle adjustment fore and aft being what determines being able to lift one's hands off the bars or not, which affects how much weight is being carried by the hands.

And that moving the saddle back will make it easier, not harder to do so. I admit I find this counterintuitive and I think it might depend on how much power you're applying to the pedals.

If there's any merit to this argument, then one should consider the saddle position first, then worry about stems and handlebars to bring the grips to their proper place for the desired riding posture.
I can't comment on ability to take your hands off the bars, but I agree that you should get the saddle in the right spot relative to the pedals before you start messing with stem changes or moving the stem up or down.
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Old 11-04-23, 02:25 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by abdon
Saddle position like any other geometry adjustment is part personal but also factors in mechanical advantage. I used to be into hills, the longer and steeper the better (can't do them like I used to). So, for me and my body I benefited from having my saddle way back.
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interesting point. I've found that having the saddle back a bit "feels" like I have more leverage, but I just dont know if its in my head and/or how much is affected by all the small details of seat height too. I know when putting a seat back, you lengthen the leg extension, and should lower the saddle a smidge--and Ive found one has to be careful not to have too much extension, putting a bit more pressure on your underbits.
Its all so detailed and personal all these minutia stuff, certainly not easy to pinpoint a black and white answer, but rather than listening to ones body and making SMALL changes to see if things feel better or worse.
Hell--this summer I took my bike to Scotland and stupidly spent a week riding before I realized the seat was set too low. I figured I was feeling weaker than normal due to being old, not riding enough before the trip, being affected by the cold weather (stiff legs) but as soon as I twigged to it, I felt more normal again--damn stupid on my part, but just an example of how a small change here and there can make a real difference to ones riding--surely compounded by being older also and slowing down.
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Old 11-04-23, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
interesting point. I've found that having the saddle back a bit "feels" like I have more leverage, but I just dont know if its in my head and/or how much is affected by all the small details of seat height too. I know when putting a seat back, you lengthen the leg extension, and should lower the saddle a smidge--and Ive found one has to be careful not to have too much extension, putting a bit more pressure on your underbits.
It has to do with the particular muscle engagement that it provides. your quads, the collection of muscles in the front of your upper legs, are the strongest muscles in your legs. During aerobic high cadence cycling they are not as significant (albeit they provide the bulk of the work off the top of the pedal stroke, but you are sill having a lot more full leg involvement) but for climbs where you are cranking revolutions in semi-anaerobic mode, a saddle back position promotes the leg angles for more quad involvement.

Heck the reason why people instinctively climb off the saddle to fight a hill is because of that; they are trying to engage their legs in the strongest position they can muster. You do that for a while and you'll feel your quads burning from lactic acid build up, showing you which muscles are carrying the bulk of the effort. One caveat here; some people may tend to get off the saddle more often because their cranks are longer than they should be. That is so because the longer crank length creates a geometry where leg engagement calls for the quads to muscle through the revolution. If your intent is for high cadence then too long a crank would be counter productive for that goal. So would be too far a saddle possition.
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Old 11-04-23, 02:56 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by abdon
It has to do with the particular muscle engagement that it provides. your quads, the collection of muscles in the front of your upper legs, are the strongest muscles in your legs. During aerobic high cadence cycling they are not as significant (albeit they provide the bulk of the work off the top of the pedal stroke, but you are sill having a lot more full leg involvement) but for climbs where you are cranking revolutions in semi-anaerobic mode, a saddle back position promotes the leg angles for more quad involvement.

Heck the reason why people instinctively climb off the saddle to fight a hill is because of that; they are trying to engage their legs in the strongest position they can muster. You do that for a while and you'll feel your quads burning from lactic acid build up, showing you which muscles are carrying the bulk of the effort. One caveat here; some people may tend to get off the saddle more often because their cranks are longer than they should be. That is so because the longer crank length creates a geometry where leg engagement calls for the quads to muscle through the revolution. If your intent is for high cadence then too long a crank would be counter productive for that goal. So would be too far a saddle possition.
Pretty much how my uninformed instincts say to me.
Also that's my take on crank length also.
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Old 11-04-23, 03:27 PM
  #30  
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OP- once you have fit dialed in, so saddle height is good, stem length and angle are good, etc- take that to a ship and ask them to cut the cables to proper lengths. Good lord there is a ton of excess cable in that picture. That stuff can easily get in the way if it's flopping around with excess length.

But I'd you do it after you have the fit set, you won't end up with it possibly too short.
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Old 11-05-23, 07:08 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by abdon
Heck, the reason people instinctively climb off the saddle to fight a hill is because of that; they are trying to engage their legs in the strongest position they can muster. You do that for a while, and you'll feel your quads burning from lactic acid build up, showing you which muscles are carrying the bulk of the effort.

One caveat here; some people may tend to get off the saddle more often because their cranks are longer than they should be. That is so because the longer crank length creates a geometry where leg engagement calls for the quads to muscle through the revolution. If your intent is for high cadence, then too long a crank would be counter-productive for that goal. So would be too far a saddle position.
Getting off the saddle to climb puts your center of gravity further forward to enable putting out increased power to accommodate the grade. Same thing for sprinting---out of the saddle and forward over the bars for increased power.

You're right, of course, that seated climbing with the correct saddle position and gear choice is usually more efficient, especially for long climbs.

That said, feather-weight riders like myself can stand and climb efficiently for 15 or 20 minutes with no burning of the quads.
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Old 11-05-23, 08:31 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
OP- once you have fit dialed in, so saddle height is good, stem length and angle are good, etc- take that to a ship and ask them to cut the cables to proper lengths. Good lord there is a ton of excess cable in that picture. That stuff can easily get in the way if it's flopping around with excess length.

But I'd you do it after you have the fit set, you won't end up with it possibly too short.
when I looked at the specs of this bike, it seems that it has hydraulic brakes.
Also, it appears that the loop of brake lines on this bike could easily be pushed forward of the fork. In the photo we see the big loop of the front brake behind the bars, but hopefully it can be pushed out of the way so the loop is in front, out of the way of your knees

. There is a curious "junction" in the housings, I'm not familiar with hydro brakes but didnt think that they have this--but this bike certainly has some sort of junction joining up thing in the brake line-two clearly seen things that look like barrel adjusters on a cable shifting housing.

if they are hydro brakes, then changing cable length would cost more to do at a shop wouldn't it? (again, no experience working oh hydros)
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Old 11-05-23, 11:12 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Getting off the saddle to climb puts your center of gravity further forward to enable putting out increased power to accommodate the grade. Same thing for sprinting---out of the saddle and forward over the bars for increased power.

You're right, of course, that seated climbing with the correct saddle position and gear choice is usually more efficient, especially for long climbs.

That said, feather-weight riders like myself can stand and climb efficiently for 15 or 20 minutes with no burning of the quads.
That is correct but if you look at the hip joint angles at somebody pedaling off the saddle you'll notice that they are at much stepper angles in order to maximize quad muscles engagement.

If you love them hills you could consider leg weight lifting exercises. While the fast twitching muscles that are utilized during anaerobic output do not contribute as much to fast cadence aerobic pedaling, they shine on them hills. One psychological reason why you don't experience the burn is because of the slow/fast muscle fiber distribution on your legs, more of the aerobic ones than the other.
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Old 11-05-23, 03:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by djb
when I looked at the specs of this bike, it seems that it has hydraulic brakes.
Also, it appears that the loop of brake lines on this bike could easily be pushed forward of the fork. In the photo we see the big loop of the front brake behind the bars, but hopefully it can be pushed out of the way so the loop is in front, out of the way of your knees

. There is a curious "junction" in the housings, I'm not familiar with hydro brakes but didnt think that they have this--but this bike certainly has some sort of junction joining up thing in the brake line-two clearly seen things that look like barrel adjusters on a cable shifting housing.

if they are hydro brakes, then changing cable length would cost more to do at a shop wouldn't it? (again, no experience working oh hydros)
They are trp hyrd brakes- so cable actuated hydraulic calipers. The hydraulic fluid is contained within the caliper itself and it uses traditional brake cables to compress the fluid which engages the pistons.
I saw the junction too, I'm guessing that is a brake housing split which allows you to adjust the cable tension. Some STI shifters used to have them for shift cables up near the lever. Thars me best guess at least.

Anyways, it's pretty simple to adjust the cable length for these brakes since it is just a traditional cable and housing cut. But a shop could obviously do it too.
I just mentioned taking it to a other shop since the OP's REI store is who set the bike up, looked at the absurd cable length and routing, and tjiught 'nailed it'.
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Old 11-05-23, 04:21 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
They are trp hyrd brakes- so cable actuated hydraulic calipers. The hydraulic fluid is contained within the caliper itself and it uses traditional brake cables to compress the fluid which engages the pistons.
I saw the junction too, I'm guessing that is a brake housing split which allows you to adjust the cable tension. Some STI shifters used to have them for shift cables up near the lever. Thars me best guess at least.

Anyways, it's pretty simple to adjust the cable length for these brakes since it is just a traditional cable and housing cut. But a shop could obviously do it too.
I just mentioned taking it to a other shop since the OP's REI store is who set the bike up, looked at the absurd cable length and routing, and tjiught 'nailed it'.
ah yes. A friend of mine has a bike with another brand of cable/hydros--this didn't occur to me with these. Odd to have that housing split there, my friends brakes have a cable adjuster turnee thing right on the caliper, I adjusted it once for her.
So yes, a much easier thing to do than shortening a pure hydro setup.
I still wonder if the housing could simply be pushed towards the front of the bike and will be out of the way easily and not be a problem.

re housing length-I have some Jones H bars that I like using on my commuter and also on my fatbike in winter. When I have the H bars on the fatbike, I usually slap on an old set of mtb bars on my commuter, but as I set the housing length for the Jones bars (quite wide and backswept) , the housings are quite long with the regular mtb bars on, but its not a big deal really. They are out front and not an issue--yes, these are drop bars, but it might be alright with them also as long as the housings naturally stay in the front part.
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Old 11-05-23, 05:02 PM
  #36  
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If they are compressionless cables, they are quite stiff, in which case I would leave them a bit long. I wish the shifter cables on my road bike were an inch or two longer. I raised the handlebar with a high angle stem and the shift cables are a bit tight now in part because my handlebar bag is where the cables wanted to be. The brake cables are also compressionless and are quite stiff.
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Old 11-05-23, 05:31 PM
  #37  
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good point, I forgot to add that--having a bit more leeway with housings is handy also for if you put on handlebar bags or a front roll or whatever (thats my experience anyway)
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