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Light Diet While Touring

Old 05-08-24, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I consider myself to be a Minnesotan, temporarily in Wisconsin. So far temporary is thirty some years, and counting.
Two of my favorite states to tour in come July and August
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Old 05-09-24, 04:16 AM
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I consider myself to be a Minnesotan, temporarily in Wisconsin. So far temporary is thirty some years, and counting.

Originally Posted by robow
Two of my favorite states to tour in come July and August
I generally start much earlier, I want to be off the roads before the roads get full of RVs, etc. Next tour starts in the first week of June, most of my distance will be covered before Canada Day and before July 4. I won't be in Minnesota or Wisconsin, but will be at about the same latitude for weather planning purposes, which makes clothing and bedding planning simpler. The disadvantage of earlier is a greater chance of precip, but the campgrounds are almost never full that early which is a big plus. I already sprayed some of my clothing with permethrin and will bring the picaridin, so hopefully I have already won the battle against the bugs.
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Old 05-09-24, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
RH Clark, if I eat a protein concentrated diet I am able to go longer on the bike before needing to refuel. If I introduce sugar in the form of soda's or candy into the diet I run out of energy on the bike after about 10 miles and the bonk is pretty deep. It is as if my body is rejecting simple sugar as a source of fuel. It is hard to explain because I don't understand what is taking place and I do not have the vernacular to go with it.
First, I'm not a doctor nor do I claim to be an expert. I've just done a lot of research trying to figure this stuff out to help my own problems.
I suspect what you are experiencing is a sugar drop. It seems counterintuitive but this is what can happen. If we as a rule eat too much sugar or high glycemic foods too often, we develop insulin insensitivity. We become insensitive to insulin because we are exposed to too much of it too often. Some highly processed foods can even raise blood sugar faster than pure granulated sugar. This causes the body to have to release more insulin than is optimal, so you become tolerant to insulin just like an addict becomes tolerant to a drug and needs more and more to get the same high.

If someone has become insulin insensitive when they do have a sugar bomb like a soda, that massive dose of insulin will drop blood sugar farther than what is optimal so it's easy to experience severe swings in blood sugar. I suspect that sudden drop in blood sugar is what you experienced caused by too much insulin being released to lower blood sugar from the soda, rather than a bonk caused from depletion from the exertion.

Do you normally find that you need to eat something or have a soda every 2-3 hours or you will feel weak or jittery? Low blood sugar can cause you to feel dizzy or just massively hungry. You can have your doctor test you for insulin insensitivity and it can be easily reversed by reducing sugar and glycemic foods and or prolonging the intervals between caloric intake. You should have your sensitivity tested though as severe insensitivity to insulin is type 2 diabetes, which can also be reversed or at least halted from causing farther harm.
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Old 05-10-24, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
What makes you think low fat is heart healthy? Look into it, it's an urban myth that many doctors still preach. Sugar is what causes irritation in artery walls. You would be better off eating bacon and eggs than peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
That's not...
Ok, here's the thing. Statements like these are just plain harmful. you've stated later that you're not a doctor and have researched this stuff yourself. But what doing your won research doesn't really provide is understanding about the complexity of nutrition and how many variables are involved. For example genetics. There are certain groups of people in the world who experience no practical ill effects from consumed cholesterol and then there are also groups who suck it all in and it shows directly in mortality rates.

And that's just one example. There dozens other large scale variables which dictate the optimal timing of consumption of various food groups, the amounts, the actual food groups you're basically "allowed" to consume etc..

Luckily there are some fairly universal guidelines for healthy eating, like the mediterranean diet high in fish, full grains, plants and vegetable oils with very limited red meats and highly processed foods (bacon).

You're also using the word sugar, which is pretty useless as a word. Sugar, ie. sucrose has a mid level glycemic index, meaning it's not particularly fast absorbing or affecting. Things like rice, which isn't sugar, on the other hand has one of the highest GI numbers available. So if you really want to discuss carbs, it's also much more complicated than you may have realized.

And on that point about irritation in artery walls, no. Sugar doesn't cause that. Constant high blood glucose levels can cause that. But calling out just sugar as the culprit is misunderstanding the causality in a far more complicated and convoluted event chain. People often think type 2 diabetes is caused by inactivity and unhealthy eating. Those are definite risk factors and can be the actual cause. But what many people don't know is that type 2 diabetes is far more genetic and hereditary than type 1 diabetes, which is often considered the "hereditary" diabetes.
So if your parents have type 2, you might get it no matter what you do.
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Old 05-10-24, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
RH Clark, if I eat a protein concentrated diet I am able to go longer on the bike before needing to refuel. If I introduce sugar in the form of soda's or candy into the diet I run out of energy on the bike after about 10 miles and the bonk is pretty deep. It is as if my body is rejecting simple sugar as a source of fuel. It is hard to explain because I don't understand what is taking place and I do not have the vernacular to go with it.
I often do about a 60 mile exercise ride, a route that I have done many times and know well. I have regular stops for water and a granola bar, etc. But one time I did it a couple years ago, about the last 25 miles, I had no energy. I had to walk up hills I had never walked up before and have not walked up since. When I got home I did not recover quickly either. Eventually I concluded that I must have run low on electrolytes. Now I always carry some salty snack food in my handlebar bag, just in case. Usually pretzel rods.

Do I have any proof or a good theory on why I blame electrolytes? No. But the problem was not calorie or calorie source or dehydration, it was something else, and electrolytes were the only thing I could think of.

Have not had a repeat and sometimes I eat my salty snacks if I feel a bit of weakness coming on, that has usually helped.
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Old 05-10-24, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
... People often think type 2 diabetes is caused by inactivity and unhealthy eating. Those are definite risk factors and can be the actual cause. But what many people don't know is that type 2 diabetes is far more genetic and hereditary than type 1 diabetes, which is often considered the "hereditary" diabetes.
So if your parents have type 2, you might get it no matter what you do.
I was diagnosed with type 2 in 2011 in my mid 50s. I blame a number of different things, statin use is a documented correlation to higher rates of diabetes. I used to have a Dr that was prescribing high levels of statins for me, I switched doctors and dropped the dosage. The earlier Dr had said that statins should be in the water supply, before med school he was a chemical engineer. To him, adding chemicals were the solution.

There has been a lot of incorrect data over the years on cholesterol. I even bought a book on that a couple decades ago, and we now know much of what that book said was a crock. I used to avoid eggs and cheddar cheese as if they were poison, now I eat both every day, every salad I make at home has a hard boiled egg on it.

The standard guidance in USA is that 45 to 65 percent of your calories should come from carbs. I have to keep my carb levels down in the range where 30 to 35 percent of my calories is from carbs, any higher and my blood sugar gets uncontrolled. I do that with a high fat diet. Yesterday 30.3 percent of my calories came from carbs.

I have had dieticians and nutritionists tell me I need to eat more carbs and less fat. But they were the same category of people that a couple decades were saying we should be low or no fat. I was buying things like no fat or low fat salad dressing, which I now know was full of high fructose corn syrup to make a no fat salad dressing actually palatable. I now know that was a huge mistake and that I should not listen to their advice.

I have no medical training, but I have a blood sugar meter that I use every day and have figured out how to keep my blood sugar readings under control without using insulin. For me, a high fat diet is part of that.

And I do not have cardio disease, which has been confirmed by cat scan and ultrasound. I am not saying everyone should eat what I eat, because everyone is different. But I know with certainty that some of the reasons I have diabetes is because I listened to some of the medical professionals. Some of them now have concluded that the no fat or low fat diets were a problem too, but I wished they had come to that conclusion decades ago before that kind of medical advice was one of the causes of my diabetes.

I am not saying everyone should do what I do, everyone is different. But there still are some bits of bad advice out there from some within the medical profession. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way.
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Old 05-10-24, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
That's not...
Ok, here's the thing. Statements like these are just plain harmful. you've stated later that you're not a doctor and have researched this stuff yourself. But what doing your won research doesn't really provide is understanding about the complexity of nutrition and how many variables are involved. For example genetics. There are certain groups of people in the world who experience no practical ill effects from consumed cholesterol and then there are also groups who suck it all in and it shows directly in mortality rates.

And that's just one example. There dozens other large scale variables which dictate the optimal timing of consumption of various food groups, the amounts, the actual food groups you're basically "allowed" to consume etc..

Luckily there are some fairly universal guidelines for healthy eating, like the mediterranean diet high in fish, full grains, plants and vegetable oils with very limited red meats and highly processed foods (bacon).

You're also using the word sugar, which is pretty useless as a word. Sugar, ie. sucrose has a mid level glycemic index, meaning it's not particularly fast absorbing or affecting. Things like rice, which isn't sugar, on the other hand has one of the highest GI numbers available. So if you really want to discuss carbs, it's also much more complicated than you may have realized.

And on that point about irritation in artery walls, no. Sugar doesn't cause that. Constant high blood glucose levels can cause that. But calling out just sugar as the culprit is misunderstanding the causality in a far more complicated and convoluted event chain. People often think type 2 diabetes is caused by inactivity and unhealthy eating. Those are definite risk factors and can be the actual cause. But what many people don't know is that type 2 diabetes is far more genetic and hereditary than type 1 diabetes, which is often considered the "hereditary" diabetes.
So if your parents have type 2, you might get it no matter what you do.
You are wrong about t2 diabetes. What is harmful is making people think there is nothing they can do about their condition because the inherited it. The cause of t2 is insensitivity to insulin brought about by being exposed to too much insulin, too often over time. OfCourse there is a much higher risk if one or both parents have t2. Children always copy the behavior of their parents. What do you suppose the risk of obesity is when both parents are obese? Is it higher than the risk if both parents are healthy? Does that mean that obesity is genetic?

If t2 and obesity were primarily genetic it wouldn't be so easy to cure either with a good diet and exercise.
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Old 05-10-24, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
You are wrong about t2 diabetes. What is harmful is making people think there is nothing they can do about their condition because the inherited it. The cause of t2 is insensitivity to insulin brought about by being exposed to too much insulin, too often over time. OfCourse there is a much higher risk if one or both parents have t2. Children always copy the behavior of their parents. What do you suppose the risk of obesity is when both parents are obese? Is it higher than the risk if both parents are healthy? Does that mean that obesity is genetic?

If t2 and obesity were primarily genetic it wouldn't be so easy to cure either with a good diet and exercise.
I think there is a middle ground, I believe that genetics do play a role, more than you suggest and less than Elcruxio suggests. In my case there is none in family history, but I still suspect that for many people, genetics does play a role.
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Old 05-10-24, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I think there is a middle ground, I believe that genetics do play a role, more than you suggest and less than Elcruxio suggests. In my case there is none in family history, but I still suspect that for many people, genetics does play a role.
There's no reason to think genetics wouldn't play a role, since it matters in so many ways. There is not anyone however to my knowledge who can't either reverse the disease or halt its progress with a proper diet. If it were predominantly a genetic issue, there should be non-responders to dietary changes because of particular genetics. Even if genetics play a role, I would bet inherited lifestyle, and dietary habits are a larger factor. The main thing is that it can be completely managed by proper diet.
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Old 05-11-24, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
There's no reason to think genetics wouldn't play a role, since it matters in so many ways. There is not anyone however to my knowledge who can't either reverse the disease or halt its progress with a proper diet. If it were predominantly a genetic issue, there should be non-responders to dietary changes because of particular genetics. Even if genetics play a role, I would bet inherited lifestyle, and dietary habits are a larger factor. The main thing is that it can be completely managed by proper diet.
You have too narrow an understanding of the spectrum that is type 2 diabetes. You seem to consider there's only one mechanism for it occurring (diet + lifestyle induced). In reality there's a whole host of non autoimmune or non endocrine regulatory dysfunction diabetes, many of which are categorized under type 2 diabetes.

As soon as you get autoimmune response it's either type 1 or LADA and if it's endocrine regulatory dysfuntion it's typically MODY. Then there's pregnancy diabetes and physical trauma induced.

However the fact still remains that diet and lifestyle induced type 2 is only one type under the type 2 umbrella, which can easily combine with other types as well. Some of these types cannot be cured in any fashion or form(though type 2 is typically considered to be permanent in any case). To name an example is the type where the pancreas just tires and stops producing insulin. Also known as the thin person's type 2. Can happen to athletes and regular joes alike.

I really don't like broad generalizations on such complicated and multi faceted topics.
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Old 05-11-24, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
You have too narrow an understanding of the spectrum that is type 2 diabetes. You seem to consider there's only one mechanism for it occurring (diet + lifestyle induced). In reality there's a whole host of non autoimmune or non endocrine regulatory dysfunction diabetes, many of which are categorized under type 2 diabetes.

As soon as you get autoimmune response it's either type 1 or LADA and if it's endocrine regulatory dysfuntion it's typically MODY. Then there's pregnancy diabetes and physical trauma induced.

However the fact still remains that diet and lifestyle induced type 2 is only one type under the type 2 umbrella, which can easily combine with other types as well. Some of these types cannot be cured in any fashion or form(though type 2 is typically considered to be permanent in any case). To name an example is the type where the pancreas just tires and stops producing insulin. Also known as the thin person's type 2. Can happen to athletes and regular joes alike.

I really don't like broad generalizations on such complicated and multi faceted topics.
Please link me some information concerning the possible examples of T2 that diet does not cure. When I try to look up your examples they seem to only apply to T1.
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Old 05-11-24, 07:28 AM
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OP: One burner, but how many cooking “vessels”, and what type?

And what type of “bikepacking” are you planning on? Trips where you won’t be near food sources for days at a time?

Last edited by indyfabz; 05-11-24 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 05-11-24, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
OP: One burner, but how many cooking “vessels”, and what type?
Well, my jet burner stove ("Jetboil") is a system which includes a large cup which is used for both cooking and eating. Only a spoon is needed. With dried complete meals you heat water, which happens very fast with the jet, and pour it into the food bag and stir and eat. Only one spoon to clean and you are done. It worked perfectly for backpacking but the basis for my original question was simply whether anyone has found dried food meals (complete meals) that are relatively healthy. Easy to eat healthy with a refrigerator, not so easy without.

Problem is my question was poorly worded. Still, it produced all kinds of interesting side discussions which I have enjoyed and found educational.
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Old 05-11-24, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Please link me some information concerning the possible examples of T2 that diet does not cure. When I try to look up your examples they seem to only apply to T1.
According to the Mayo Clinic (see this page):

"There's no cure for type 2 diabetes. Losing weight, eating well and exercising can help manage the disease. If diet and exercise aren't enough to control blood sugar, diabetes medications or insulin therapy may be recommended."

Perhaps you meant "manage" instead of "cure" in the phrase "possible examples of T2 that diet does not cure."
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Old 05-11-24, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by spinconn
Easy to eat healthy with a refrigerator, not so easy without.
It’s not actually all that difficult if you have access to decent food sources most/every day and a way to prepare meals that involves more than pouring hot water over something.

Pasta with pretty lo-fat, precooked chicken sausage, canned spinach, garlic, shallots and olive oil (which I always have with me if I’ll be cooking). Purchased supplies in MA and rode with them into NY. Maybe 90 min. of riding. When I got to camp, I put the package of sausages in cold water until it was time to cook. I take blood thinners daily, so I need to try to eat a consistent amount of food higher in Vitamin K. Sometimes forces me to get creative.

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Old 05-11-24, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
According to the Mayo Clinic (see this page):

"There's no cure for type 2 diabetes. Losing weight, eating well and exercising can help manage the disease. If diet and exercise aren't enough to control blood sugar, diabetes medications or insulin therapy may be recommended."

Perhaps you meant "manage" instead of "cure" in the phrase "possible examples of T2 that diet does not cure."
It depends on what you mean by cure. You may never completely recover from damage done just depending on how long you have had T2 and how severe it became. If you care to look farther than the mayo clinic though you will find that just depending on the progression and severity before changing diet the disease has been made, shall we say a non-issue, by thousands of people just by diet. Look into some of the material of Dr. Jason Fung if you are interested. He is by far not the only source.
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Old 05-11-24, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Please link me some information concerning the possible examples of T2 that diet does not cure. When I try to look up your examples they seem to only apply to T1.
I am not the person that you asked, but I know one guy that has been on insulin for as long as I have known him, 14 years. He has commented that he had trouble with Metformin and the only way they could get his blood sugar under control is with insulin as a last resort. I am guessing between 20 and 30 years ago, he is about 70 now. But he used to race bikes (amateur, not pro) and I am sure that he has had many thousands of gel packets that are designed to give you a huge sugar spike, which is probably another source of the disease.

I used to work with a guy that tried to turn pro bike racer in his early years, but no teams would hire him because he was on insulin. He was the first person I ever met that had an insulin pump on his belt. But I do not know if he was type 1 or 2.

I do not like the terms type 1 or 2, there are liver issues, there are pancreas issues, insulin resistance issues, and combinations of those. It is much more complicated than two types.
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Old 05-11-24, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
It depends on what you mean by cure. You may never completely recover from damage done just depending on how long you have had T2 and how severe it became. If you care to look farther than the mayo clinic though you will find that just depending on the progression and severity before changing diet the disease has been made, shall we say a non-issue, by thousands of people just by diet. Look into some of the material of Dr. Jason Fung if you are interested. He is by far not the only source.
"There is no cure for T2 diabetes." 'It depends what you mean by "cure.' " Cure means cure. Anything else is management.

That said, I know a couple who disregard any health-related information that comes from a .org source ("in the pockets of Big Pharma!") and instead trust any .com site as long as the advice bucks received wisdom from the evil government-approved system.

I learned that it was pointless to have a conversation about medical treatments with them when the husband said, in an email, that the vaccine was deadly and that the Truth about its deadliness was only known thanks to the work of "a few brave scientists" who were holistic healers, etc.

Dr. Jason Fung does look legit at first glance, though.
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Old 05-11-24, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I do not like the terms type 1 or 2, there are liver issues, there are pancreas issues, insulin resistance issues, and combinations of those. It is much more complicated than two types.
There are certainly many different variations to type 2 diabetes. However the defining difference and diagnostic criteria for type 1 is an autoimmune element. Putting it simply the body begins attacking the beta cells of the pancreas eventually destroying the ability to produce insulin.

The you have pregnancy diabetes, LADA and MODY.

Type 2 is defined as the diabetes that does not have an autoimmune element (type 1, LADA), or endocrine insulin dysregulation (MODY) or isn't temporary (pregnancy diabetes).
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Old 05-12-24, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
"There is no cure for T2 diabetes." 'It depends what you mean by "cure.' " Cure means cure. Anything else is management.

That said, I know a couple who disregard any health-related information that comes from a .org source ("in the pockets of Big Pharma!") and instead trust any .com site as long as the advice bucks received wisdom from the evil government-approved system.

I learned that it was pointless to have a conversation about medical treatments with them when the husband said, in an email, that the vaccine was deadly and that the Truth about its deadliness was only known thanks to the work of "a few brave scientists" who were holistic healers, etc.

Dr. Jason Fung does look legit at first glance, though.
Turns out your friend was at least partially correct. It's always good to look at more than one source for your information.
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Old 05-13-24, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
Two of my favorite states to tour in come July and August
Do you ride the rail trails in Wisconsin during that time period? If so, how are the bugs?
I'm thinking Sparta-Elroy.
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Old 05-13-24, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sknhgy
Do you ride the rail trails in Wisconsin during that time period? If so, how are the bugs?
I'm thinking Sparta-Elroy.
I am not the one you asked, and I have never been on Spart Elroy. But I can say that in June the bugs in Wisc and Minn can be dreadful. Less so in July or Aug. But having some repellant along never hurts. Depends a lot on how much rain there was shortly before you arrive.

Mosquitos are especially good at biting through knit jerseys.

Picaridin is less likely to damage any plastics compared to deet based repellants.

If you are camping, most certainly bring some repellant.
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Old 05-13-24, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sknhgy
Do you ride the rail trails in Wisconsin during that time period? If so, how are the bugs?
I'm thinking Sparta-Elroy.
Yes, both Wisconsin and Minnesota have an abundance of trails. The Elroy Sparta trail is delightful but don't stop there. That trail is actually just one of the Big 4 trails that are all continuous or interconnected. Start in Reedsburg, WI and then to Elroy and on to Sparta. From there you can head over to La Crosse and north to the Trempealeau State Park. Though the trail ends there, it's a very nice ride up and over the Mississippi to Wenona, MN. And yes, we've done this several times both camping and hotels. The bugs are not that bad on these trails as long as you're moving and they're not nearly as bad as further north in the dense woodland areas. Tourist in MSN has advised you well if you will be camping further north and/or in the dense woodland/swamp areas.
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Old 05-13-24, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
Yes, both Wisconsin and Minnesota have an abundance of trails. The Elroy Sparta trail is delightful but don't stop there. That trail is actually just one of the Big 4 trails that are all continuous or interconnected. Start in Reedsburg, WI and then to Elroy and on to Sparta. From there you can head over to La Crosse and north to the Trempealeau State Park. Though the trail ends there, it's a very nice ride up and over the Mississippi to Wenona, MN. And yes, we've done this several times both camping and hotels. The bugs are not that bad on these trails as long as you're moving and they're not nearly as bad as further north in the dense woodland areas. Tourist in MSN has advised you well if you will be camping further north and/or in the dense woodland/swamp areas.
Thanks. I've ridden up there but it's been a while, like 15-20 years ago. I've also been further north and I remember being attacked by mosquitos, out in the sunlight, in the middle of the day.
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Old 05-13-24, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sknhgy
Thanks. I've ridden up there but it's been a while, like 15-20 years ago. I've also been further north and I remember being attacked by mosquitos, out in the sunlight, in the middle of the day.
I am a native Minnesotan, so the bugs do not bother me as much. When the mosquitos bite small children, if they taste good they carry them off to eat later. But the children that taste bad to mosquitos are left behind, thus after several generations native Minnesotans do not taste very good to mosquitos. And, we need less repellant for that reason.
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