Pannier liner
 

In the quest for creating more room in a pannier I came across vacuum clothes storage bags that compress the clothing as the air is removed from the bag.
In the pannier I put clothing in I have lined the inside with one of these vac bags. What used to fill the pannier completely now compresses down enough to create an extra 3" at the top of the bag. Mission accomplished.
The bags do not require a vacuum source, instead the bag is compressed and a valve on the bag allows the air to escape. Simple and effective.
Next step is to do the same with a sleeping quilt. Just need a bag large enough to fit it.

I use a compression stuff sack for sleeping bag and sometimes also one for clothing. I often also shove my down vest into the sleeping bag stuff sack, they are both down and readily compressible.

On this forum someone was asking questions about packing at roughly the same time that I was either packing to go on a trip or unpacking after. Thus, I had a stuffed compression sack available for photos. Thus, I snapped a few photos of my gear. I do not want to hijack this thread, so instead of posting photos here, giving you the link to the post I made at that time with the photos:
https://m.bikeforums.net/showpost.ph...13&postcount=3

The stuff sacks that I use for that are theoretically waterproof, but I have not tested them.
https://www.granitegear.com/event-si...n-drysack.html

When it comes to sleeping bags, redundant waterproofing layers are worth having, especially if it is a down sleeping bag. That is why I am using a water proof stuff sack inside a waterproof pannier.

What happens when you're off on tour and start getting pinholes in the vac bags?
How effective is the repair kit?

Repeated compression will harm most insulation, including down.

saddlesores, dunno the answer to that question as I have yet to go on tour with this set up, however I am sure the Gorilla tape I will have with me will make a good patch should a hole appear.

I find my panniers are noticeably less full when I return from a trip than they were when starting out.

I'm just the opposite. In the beginning my panniers are always efficiently packed and everything is so nice and neat and made to fit, with a little extra space left over. A few days later it looks like a bomb went off in my panniers and stuff is hanging outside and I can barely get everything within and some stuff must be relegated on top of the rack. Eventually you hope to find time to create order again.

One of the things I liked about touring in flatland 30 years ago on a long-wheelbase recumbent and B.O.B. trailer with giant rubbermaid box heat-formed to fit; Just open lid, toss down bag in loosely on top, close lid and go. No compression. Vent holes in underside of recessed handles would vent small moisture from just sleeping in bag.

Alas, now in hill country and riding a 20" folder, if I tour, it will require full compression of any bag I bring.

A few years ago, someone started a thread saying how they had ditched all of their stuff sacks and reduced the total weight of their gear by several ounces, etc. That became a long thread about whether people pack with stuff sacks or not.

And that thread started just before I left for a two week backpacking trip. One morning on that trip I laid out most of my backpacking gear (not biking) for a photo.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...db496a41d8.jpg

Yeah, I could reduce several ounces of weight if ditched the stuff sacks. Instead of having a lot of my clothes in a mesh stuff sack, I could have had a half dozen individual socks to pack, etc.

But I like the ability to organize things better. On this trip I only used one compression stuff sack, I usually sit on that when I tighten up the draw strings to compress it. I do not use the vacuum type bags that were cited by the OP. Thus, only that one compression bag was specifically shrunk, it had my sleeping bag and down vest.

I readily admit that I should have backed up a few feet before I pushed the shutter, everything except my backpack and water bottles is in the photo. But I have a couple pockets on the backpack where I had GPS, spare batteries, tooth brush & paste, repellant, sun screen, lip balm, phone, etc.

60L backpack? That is a lot of stuff, but I like the way you have organized it. Very similar to what i have done.

:lol: I’ve managed to change my evil ways over the years. Mostly. Rest days are for restoring order.

Compression bags for clothing is not something I’d want to deal with. I roll my clothes and stuff them in the panniers. Space is never an issue. I do use a compression sack for my sleeping bag. That allows it fit in a pannier with my off-bike clothing.

Its a never ending quest. Even now that I no longer back pack I still remain interested in new and old developments of reducing weight and compacting my gear. I have used some of those plastic compactor bags with the valve. They do work well but are a little on the heavy side for a carry. None of the plastic bags lasted very long but would certainly last a 5 day touring ride in a pannier.

There is always something to learn when discussing and viewing how people pack in and out. Even when looking at travelers from 5300 years ago...
Ötzi's 3,300BCE Gear List ? The Vintage Hiking Depot.

I found the thread I mentioned from a few years ago, which prompted me to take the photo. Link is to that post, in that post I listed the purpose for each bag:
https://www.bikeforums.net/22241200-post18.html


70 liter backpack. Two weeks, but I did resupply food, camera batteries, GPS and headlamp batteries (AA), and butane half way through. Solo, so I was carrying all the cooking gear, tent etc., nobody else to help with the community gear.

Last summer I had a 9 day backpacking trip, used an 85 liter pack for that, the 70 was too small with that much food and stove fuel.

85 is about what I used for my 7 day trip in the Glacier backcountry. My guide had a Dana Designs pack that was even larger. He started out with 84 lbs. to my 55 lbs.

I strongly suggest reading The Pacific Crest Trail Hiker's Handbook by Ray Jardine, or the latest version, I read it in the 1990s. After hauling typical mega-weight on the AT, he thru-hiked the PCT with a pack under 10 lbs not counting food and water. Rocket payload engineer; Less payload means less rocket and fuel to lift it; For backpacking it means can travel faster and farther in lighter shoes, so less food required between resupply. The big three are shelter (he used only a tarp), sleeping bag (minimal quilt), and pack itself (one compartment, light fabric, only shoulder straps). I didn't go ultralight like him, but split the difference, closer to 20 lbs; 3000 in^3 (50L) pack with stays and hip belt, I think about 2.5 lbs, good bag (I sleep cold), and 2 person square dome tent as it was 5 lbs versus 4 lbs for a single and that extra space was mighty nice in extended rain with no vestibules, and fully enclosed so no mosquitos buzzing me as I sleep. Newer square tipis using hiking poles are nice, but not freestanding so need to use more stakes and problematic on solid rock.

Super good book, I've applied to my bike travels.

Thanks, but I doubt I’ll be doing anymore backpacking trips, and I’ve got my gear balanced between weight and convenience.

Indyfabz, your statement "...Ive got my gear balanced between weight and convenience."
is perfect in explaining how I determine what I will carry.
Since this summer will be my first multi-week adventure, I have to consider more stuff will be needed to make the journey comfortable and less paleothithic in nature.
Finding the balance of weight and convenience is the art of it. Initially load was 38 pounds, cut it down to 33 pounds, and have now added back 2 pounds. Admittedly the gear is not lightweight, but is what I have on hand, and that adds to the overall weight.

I will carry a bit more for a multi-week trip than a week long trip, largely because I do not have a weather forecast for that extra time and I might bring a few more clothes for unanticipated weather extremes. My tool kit is not bigger, but a longer trip might mean a few more spares. A week long trip does not include extra brake pads, but I do carry that for a trip of many weeks. I usually bring a big enough bar of soap, enough shampoo or tube of toothpaste that is sufficient for my trip, whether it is a week long or a month and a half long.

The only time I have needed to use a cassette lock ring tool on a tour was on a five day trip that started and ended at my home, so even the short trips are ones that I try to be ready for.

I do not carry a water filter on a bike tour, but one trip I was unsure if I might need to get water from streams in the wilderness (Iceland), so I bought and carried a Steripen on that trip, as that was the lightest and most compact way of water treatment that I could think of, other than chemical treatment. Did not use it.

Speaking of water treatment, on my backpacking trips I have met several people that had through hiked or section hiked on the AT. One for example carried a backpack that he could lift it with one hand and swing it over his other arm to put on. I think my food for six days weighed more than his pack. We camped at the same site for two nights and hiked together for a day. I asked him how he could pack so light. He ate a severe calorie deficiency and tried to catch up anytime he was at a restaurant. He did not want to carry the syringe to backflush his water filter, too heavy (about one ounce), instead he repeatedly discarded and bought new filters along the way. He was having trouble with his filter, I spent maybe 20 minutes trying to make it work, got it much better but was unable to completely renew it, but I carried that enormous extra one ounce of weight for my backflush tool so that my filter still works like new. He had a custom made tent that he bought used from someone else that had to quit their AT trip early. Custom made rain coat that had a custom bulge in the back that was sized perfectly for this backpack to go under the raincoat. I do not remember how many pairs of shoes he said he discarded on the AT, but I think his shoes lasted weeks, not months. Bottom line, if that works for him, great, but not for me. Most of my backpacking, kayaking, canoeing and bike touring equipment is the stuff that I expect to use for years, not repeated discarding it along the way to reduce ounces. I suspect anyone else that reads this will agree, use equipment that lasts for years. The super light crowd that wants to race and considers their equipment to be expendable are using other forums for their discussion.

(above) Agree on all, except one. Ray Jardine said in his book, that one reason for lightening his load was to walk in running shoes instead of heavy hiking boots, but that also allowed him to replace the shoes periodically at low cost, as the cushion soles do wear out and lose their cushion. He'd have replacements in his boxes sent ahead with other supplies. Since that book, though, the cost of running shoes has skyrocketed to same as hiking boots, so that may no longer apply. Me, I like a bit more support so use low or mid hiking boots with firm rubber traction sole and some microcellular polymer foam above that, that stuff is a lot tougher than older shoe foams. Inside is arch supports to (recover from and) prevent plantar fasciitis, with foam insoles above that which are replaced when needed.

Convenience-wise, I was more thinking of something like not having to rig a shelter to save weight. I have a tent. I pitch it. End of story. It weighs more than a tarp and some twine, but I don't have to futz around. And at 2.75 lbs., it's pretty light. Personally, I get to satisfaction out of having to MacGyver things. Reminds me of the time at the Bike Camp in Twin Bridges, MT, where a cyclist came in very late at night. He had a hammock. The only place to hang it was from the wooden fence surrounding the cooking/eating area in a way that made the picnic table useless. When I got up very early the next morning, I had to relocate my stuff to a different part of the park to make my coffee and breakfast. I had 3/4 of a mind to fire up my Dragonfly stove on the ground out of spite. If you've ever heard a Dragonfly at full blast, you know what I mean. :D

My gear decisions are mostly driven by potential weather conditions. If I am headed to the mountains of Montana for two weeks during shoulder season, I am going to be prepared for freezing temps and snow at higher elevations. Two weeks across PA in September? Probably not. But even then the gear list doesn't change all that much.

When I think back to my first trip back in '99, which was nearly four months long, my clothing choice was not much different from what I carry today for a one or two-week trip. For example, I am still going to take one pair of convertible pants, two pair of undies, and two sets of riding clothes today like I did back in '99. It's only when I am out for an overnighter or a a long weekend that things change noticeably. Definitely a smaller fuel bottle. If the weather is going to be warm, there is no need for cold weather on and off-bike clothing. A dry forecast eliminates the need for rain gear.

That is brave.

Not for a short trip in S. Jersey leaving from my house. Forecasts during mid-summer are very reliable. Any deviation is almost certainly going to be a late pop-up thunderstorm. The real concern is the heat. The last time I did a mid-summer trip I drained my 40 oz. CamelBak and a 25 oz. bottle during a 15 mile ride from the beach back to camp. A bank sign inland read 91 degrees, it was very humid, and there was no shade.