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Originally Posted by Yan
(Post 23650973)
I do a double boiler with a metal dog bowl. Bent coat hangar to hold the chain. Same procedure that 95% of people use.
When I tour I ride in all weather, but at home I only ride in good weather. For recreational rides, why would I go if it is raining? I just wait till the next day. Cost of replacing worn drivetrains is not a factor for me. Bicycle components are extremely cheap, much cheaper than maintaining cars. I wax only for the benefit of clean legs. For bad weather, it doesn't matter if it's oil or wax, it's all gone after one wet ride and the chain is making noise. With oil I just squirt and wipe. With wax even if I'm rotating between several chains, I still have to physically swap the chain. Later I have to re-wax all the chains in the kitchen. If I was riding in rain frequently I would be in the kitchen all the time which is not something I want to do. So I stay with oil for bikes that see bad weather.
Originally Posted by phughes
(Post 23651030)
They don't use salt water, brine, here, they throw salt, rock salt. You also are talking the comment way too literally.
If it was colder OR warmer here, there would be far less issues because with constant below freezing there's no slush that clings on the bike. If it was warmer there'd be no need for salt in the first place. But since here it's a constant cycle of below and above freezing, it gets pretty nasty when it comes to bikes. Now I'm not sure of the chemistry of what they're using. The latest news I read indicated they'd be swapping to calcium chloride, which seems to be pretty corrosive to steel. There's been a lot of criticism from dog owners because apparently calcium chloride hurts the paws of dogs and makes walking them difficult. |
Sounds like waxing a chain has become a HOT theme here. ;)))
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23651255)
Using a method you assume a lot of other people use doesn't mean it's an efficient method.
Riding in the rain is an acquired taste for sure, but in Europe we have this saying: There's no bad weather, just bad gear. Personally I quite like riding in the rain. Cost isn't really the issue, though I do hate spending money I shouldn't have to spend. Time spent sourcing and replacing stuff is the actual issue since my time is valuable. The only replacements I've had to do in the last three years have been jockey wheels. I guess it depends on how long your rides are. A 200 kilometer ride in the rain? Sure you might have to swap a waxed chain for a fresh one depending on how dirty the ride was overall. But I usually get a solid two weeks of wet commuting from a waxed chain. Wet going in, wet coming out with salt in the mix and just leave the bike in the cold garage to "dry", only to ride it again the next day. After two wet weeks the chain might get squeaky and at that point I'll swap a fresh one in. If that had worked, I'd probably still be doing it. But it just didn't. Wiping took ages with wet lubes and with dry lubes I'd be lubing daily and the chain still got this rusty oily sludge on it that I would have had to wash off. A few minutes every two weeks or so isn't bad IMO. I and my wife ride in the rain frequently and for some reason I don't spend a lot of time in the garage. But then again I'm really not that OCD about our bikes. I do what needs to be done when it needs to be done and with wax it's pretty infrequently. Could be. But your claim of never having seen a rusted chain tells my your conditions may not have been as adverse as you seem to think they are. I frequently see bikes that have bright orange drivetrains and the lower portion of the frame has been stained orange. I've seen frames that have rusted through because of winter commuting and road salt. Our bikes had brown chains because the oil couldn't keep the rust out. If it was colder OR warmer here, there would be far less issues because with constant below freezing there's no slush that clings on the bike. If it was warmer there'd be no need for salt in the first place. But since here it's a constant cycle of below and above freezing, it gets pretty nasty when it comes to bikes. Now I'm not sure of the chemistry of what they're using. The latest news I read indicated they'd be swapping to calcium chloride, which seems to be pretty corrosive to steel. There's been a lot of criticism from dog owners because apparently calcium chloride hurts the paws of dogs and makes walking them difficult. Also can you share what wax you're using because it's clearly magical and far better than any wax I can get my hands on. |
Originally Posted by Yan
(Post 23651263)
Ok, so what's your efficient method? Don't be so cryptic, educate everyone.
It's not rocket science. Also can you share what wax you're using because it's clearly magical and far better than any wax I can get my hands on. |
Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23651255)
Using a method you assume a lot of other people use doesn't mean it's an efficient method.
Riding in the rain is an acquired taste for sure, but in Europe we have this saying: There's no bad weather, just bad gear. Personally I quite like riding in the rain. Cost isn't really the issue, though I do hate spending money I shouldn't have to spend. Time spent sourcing and replacing stuff is the actual issue since my time is valuable. The only replacements I've had to do in the last three years have been jockey wheels. I guess it depends on how long your rides are. A 200 kilometer ride in the rain? Sure you might have to swap a waxed chain for a fresh one depending on how dirty the ride was overall. But I usually get a solid two weeks of wet commuting from a waxed chain. Wet going in, wet coming out with salt in the mix and just leave the bike in the cold garage to "dry", only to ride it again the next day. After two wet weeks the chain might get squeaky and at that point I'll swap a fresh one in. If that had worked, I'd probably still be doing it. But it just didn't. Wiping took ages with wet lubes and with dry lubes I'd be lubing daily and the chain still got this rusty oily sludge on it that I would have had to wash off. A few minutes every two weeks or so isn't bad IMO. I and my wife ride in the rain frequently and for some reason I don't spend a lot of time in the garage. But then again I'm really not that OCD about our bikes. I do what needs to be done when it needs to be done and with wax it's pretty infrequently. Could be. But your claim of never having seen a rusted chain tells my your conditions may not have been as adverse as you seem to think they are. I frequently see bikes that have bright orange drivetrains and the lower portion of the frame has been stained orange. I've seen frames that have rusted through because of winter commuting and road salt. Our bikes had brown chains because the oil couldn't keep the rust out. If it was colder OR warmer here, there would be far less issues because with constant below freezing there's no slush that clings on the bike. If it was warmer there'd be no need for salt in the first place. But since here it's a constant cycle of below and above freezing, it gets pretty nasty when it comes to bikes. Now I'm not sure of the chemistry of what they're using. The latest news I read indicated they'd be swapping to calcium chloride, which seems to be pretty corrosive to steel. There's been a lot of criticism from dog owners because apparently calcium chloride hurts the paws of dogs and makes walking them difficult. As long as you keep your chain actually lubed, it won't rust. Take care of it. You do not NEED to spend hours waxing and swapping chains to do that. You CAN however, swap and wax your chains, and it DOES work. My lord, you do not need to make things up in order to extoll the virtues of chain waxing. Yes, chains rust, and yes, many people end up with rusty chains, BUT, if that person oculd actually keep their chain lubed, with something that will stand up to the conditions, it will keep the rust at bay, and it doesn't take much time to do that. |
Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23651424)
I have my chains hanging over the garage workbench. Spent chains on bent spokes and fresh chains on pegs. Once it comes time to wax (and the wax has molten in the slow cooker) i just lift the spent chains in the slow cooker, swish a bit and hang to cool. Once the chains have cooled I take the chains off the bent spokes and hang them on the correct pegs (every bike has a chain peg). In order to keep things organized every bike has its own bent spokes and every spoke has been tagged for a specific bike.
It's not rocket science. Currently I have Rex Black Diamond hot melt in a 1+11 configuration (1 black puck and 11 white pucks) I'll check out that wax. |
Originally Posted by phughes
(Post 23651500)
I did not say I had never SEEN a rusted chain. I said I have never HAD a rusty chain. In other words, the normal lube I use keeps it rust free. In my state they use over 10 tons of salt per lane mile. We use over 1 million tons for the state. I literally live in what is known as the rust belt. I do know where I live, and know the conditions.
As long as you keep your chain actually lubed, it won't rust. Take care of it. You do not NEED to spend hours waxing and swapping chains to do that. You CAN however, swap and wax your chains, and it DOES work. My lord, you do not need to make things up in order to extoll the virtues of chain waxing. Yes, chains rust, and yes, many people end up with rusty chains, BUT, if that person oculd actually keep their chain lubed, with something that will stand up to the conditions, it will keep the rust at bay, and it doesn't take much time to do that. |
Originally Posted by Yan
(Post 23651524)
How many chains do you keep in rotation for each bike?
I'll check out that wax. |
it is getting dramatic here;)
I don't read covert insulting insinuations neither calling somebody a liar. just different approaches and opinions. should I wax my chain today?¿ liquid or hot wax? |
Originally Posted by str
(Post 23651699)
it is getting dramatic here;)
I don't read covert insulting insinuations neither calling somebody a liar. just different approaches and opinions. should I wax my chain today?¿ liquid or hot wax? At home, and on tour, I clean the factory lube off the chain before I install the chain. Not because there’s a problem with the factory lube but I’ve found over the years that the factory lube is messy if left in place. Once clean…just clean enough, no stripped to the point where it would be clean room clean…and installed, my chains don’t come off until they need replacement, roughly 3000 miles later. And, no, solvent wax…nor, I suspect, hot wax…doesn’t need to be refreshed every 100 miles. I’m currently recording data on a solvent waxed chain on one of my bikes. I’ve logged 1500 miles on the bike and am averaging about 400 miles between wax application. In other words, about the same as oil but without the mess. |
Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23651696)
I don't really appreciate these sort of covert insulting insinuations of A) calling me a liar and B) calling me incompetent when you yourself live in a place that's designated a combination of humid continental and subtropical climate. It's like I'm discussing how layering synthetic and natural fibers is a good idea for colder climates and someone from Florida shows up howling that all you need is a cotton hoodie.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c65ded94.jpeg |
Originally Posted by str
(Post 23651699)
it is getting dramatic here;)
I don't read covert insulting insinuations neither calling somebody a liar. just different approaches and opinions. should I wax my chain today?¿ liquid or hot wax? |
Originally Posted by phughes
(Post 23651834)
Oh lord.
Your average annual snowfall is a tiny sprinkling every now and then. You're riding on practically dry or at most, damp roads. So tell me, how is salt going to get on your drivetrain in any significant way? |
Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23652163)
Let's face it, even if you do occasionally see sub freezing temps, your conditions don't expose bikes to any significant amount of salt stress.
Your average annual snowfall is a tiny sprinkling every now and then. You're riding on practically dry or at most, damp roads. So tell me, how is salt going to get on your drivetrain in any significant way? The first time I rode one of my bikes in winter, I was surprised how even the aluminum crankset was heavily oxidized, that I did not expect. You only have to ride through a few puddles of salty water to get your bike coated with very corrosive salt water. One of my neighbors is a bike mechanic at a large bike shop on a large University campus where there are a lot of bikes, most are just stored outside in winter, but some are ridden through winter. He was telling me that they replace a lot of chains every spring. Instead of removing old chains like most of us do with a chain tool to drive out a pin or disconnect a quick link, they often use a heavy duty bolt cutter to save time. And if heavily corroded, pressing out a pin or disconnecting a quick link can be difficult too. Since the chain is going into the recycle bin, does not matter if the chain is ruined when removed. I assumed they use deicing chemicals on roads in Finland, perhaps I was wrong about that. I just pasted this from the current forecast for where I live: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...674b4798f1.png Not only do they plow the snow off the roads, but the apply de-icing chemicals, mostly salt, to cut the ice that accumulates. And it gets everywhere. |
little over 1100km= 683miles, chain still running smooth! zero noise.... and still CLEAN. what is wrong here? :))))
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23652163)
Let's face it, even if you do occasionally see sub freezing temps, your conditions don't expose bikes to any significant amount of salt stress.
Your average annual snowfall is a tiny sprinkling every now and then. You're riding on practically dry or at most, damp roads. So tell me, how is salt going to get on your drivetrain in any significant way? Maybe you guys use less road salt in Europe but here in North America your bike gets salt on it during the winter as if you threw it into the ocean. |
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
(Post 23642173)
In 2014 when I rode Pacific Coast, my riding partner started with a waxed chain that he waxed at home with paraffin wax. It was quite noisy after several hundred miles. We did 863 miles (Astoria to San Francisco), but I remember his chain as being very noisy several hundred miles before the end. That was over a decade ago, I can't say when it really started getting noticeably noisy.
Given Gauvins experience cited above with a quiet chain at 500 km, that suggests that the type of wax used could make a big difference. Gauvin's quiet chain differs quite a bit from my friend's experience with paraffin. I am sticking with a conventional wax based lube that I add to my chain when it gets noisy. I pack much heavier than Gauvins on a bike tour, but I would not carry a spare chain on a tour. That comment surprised me. I carry a spare quick link or two, plus a couple extra chain links, that is all. I switched to immersion last year (June 2024) and before I embarked on a two-week tandem trip. I brought along drip wax, but decided to abstain from any chain maintenance during the 400 mile trip. Only if the two chains got REALLY bad would I utilize the drip wax. Never used it. The trip entailed two days rain riding. I did wipe the chains off at our destination to prevent/reduce rust. The chains were louder after the rain, but nowhere near needing my attention. (I've always been a stickler for smooth, efficient drive trains, so I'd be one of the first to break down and service the chains.) Didn't do a thing the whole trip. And this is with two riders putting power through the main chain. Worked wonderfully. And on my mountain bike, I'm able to get 13+ rides in dry, dusty, gritty conditions without TOUCHING my drive train. I've even stopped wiping dust off the exterior of my chain, cogs, pulleys & chain ring, which seems to prolong wax's performance. Doing ZERO maintenance for 13 rides? Unheard of with traditional lubes. Many rides for me require mid-ride attention for rides over two hours. Wax? Nope. A true revelation. I've known about immersion wax for 40 years and only tried it last year. This old dog DID learn a new trick! |
Originally Posted by elcruxio
(Post 23652163)
Let's face it, even if you do occasionally see sub freezing temps, your conditions don't expose bikes to any significant amount of salt stress.
Your average annual snowfall is a tiny sprinkling every now and then. You're riding on practically dry or at most, damp roads. So tell me, how is salt going to get on your drivetrain in any significant way? Stop while you're behind. You are clueless . |
I ride all winter commuting in Montreal, a very wintery and very salty city ;-)
Im always surprised how even at -10 or -15c, there still can be a liquid salt brine on the road that gets all over the bike, and so I always wash my bike when getting home. I'm lucky as I have a garage, so a place to do this and not worry about a bit of a mess. Nothing fancy, a real fast wash of the entire bike with soap and water using a big soft bristled part of a floor broom, spokes and rims included, chainrings. I then wipe the chain with a rag and just spray some WD40 on it. It aint the best lubricant, but for the distances I do its perfectly fine and super fast to do (5 seconds or less maybe pedaling backwards and spraying) and I figure the WD water displacement thing is good for the chain, given the salt brine stuff that gets thrown onto it. very different scenario of all this back and forth, but it works for me in a real disgusting salty environment. Works for the bike too as the old bike stays in pretty good shape. (but I do grease up all kinds of bits and bobs on the bike each season to keep corrosion down) |
re wiping the chain with a rag -- I'm always surprised how few people do this regularly, including nearly all of my riding friends.
No matter the chain lube or whatever, regular simple fast wipe downs take but a few seconds and keep the gunk from accumulating. Clean type lubes make a big difference too (Ive tried all kinds of chain lubes over the years) and so have become my favorite type of lube, just less mess overall and make rag wiping so much easier to keep the drivetrain reasonably clean. my analogy is like doing dishes or keeping the kitchen clean. Do it each time and its a fast, easy job. Leave it for a bunch of days and its a real chore. |
Originally Posted by djb
(Post 23652560)
re wiping the chain with a rag -- I'm always surprised how few people do this regularly, including nearly all of my riding friends.
No matter the chain lube or whatever, regular simple fast wipe downs take but a few seconds and keep the gunk from accumulating. Clean type lubes make a big difference too (Ive tried all kinds of chain lubes over the years) and so have become my favorite type of lube, just less mess overall and make rag wiping so much easier to keep the drivetrain reasonably clean. my analogy is like doing dishes or keeping the kitchen clean. Do it each time and its a fast, easy job. Leave it for a bunch of days and its a real chore. |
Originally Posted by djb
(Post 23652560)
re wiping the chain with a rag -- I'm always surprised how few people do this regularly, including nearly all of my riding friends.
... Twice on the bike where i replaced the chain. Wiping it off before I took off the old chain made the cleanup easier when I was done. The rollers contact the cassette, so you should make sure they are clean. And the internal parts like the pins and the inner plates where they wear on the pins, those parts that you can't see are the important parts. Wiping off the side plates off will not help extend the life of the chain. But it might make your cassette and your right leg cleaner. But if you are frequently removing your chain for the hot wax treatment, I can see where keeping it cleaner on the exterior between swaps is worth doing. |
Originally Posted by str
(Post 23652748)
hey djb, try hot wax 😜 did you hear about it? I'm cycling since 1989, only a view month ago I started hot wax and it's a game changer.
Cheers |
I think the OP may have been asking if anyone would do an extended (self contained) tour with a waxed chain system. I took this to mean that you would bring a pre-waxed back up chain and also a pan with solidified wax with a tight fitting lid that could be used on a backpacking cook stove. As impractical as some might think this sounds, I like the idea. I have enjoyed waxing my 2 road bike chains the past 4 years and I keep getting more little tips from places like Molten Speed Wax & Silca on how to do it better. For example: on a Silca video, Josh suggested pre-cleaning a spent waxed chain with boiling water before plunging it into melted wax. I have been doing this immediately after rain rides & when having the melted wax standing by - you plunge the wet (but rinsed of grit with boiling water) chain into the molten wax & you can observe the water bubbling off right away. You slosh back and forth then flip & pull from the wax pot when the bubbling stops. This works great for rain riding & I see no reason why this method could not be taken on a long distance tour. If anybody had an idea for a sealed small pan that would hold half a pound of Silca wax with a snug sealed lid - do share!
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
(Post 23652780)
I rarely do this. The part of the chain you are wiping is the part that does not matter if it gets dirty. I think I did this once or twice on each bike this year.
Twice on the bike where i replaced the chain. Wiping it off before I took off the old chain made the cleanup easier when I was done. The rollers contact the cassette, so you should make sure they are clean. And the internal parts like the pins and the inner plates where they wear on the pins, those parts that you can't see are the important parts. Wiping off the side plates off will not help extend the life of the chain. But it might make your cassette and your right leg cleaner. But if you are frequently removing your chain for the hot wax treatment, I can see where keeping it cleaner on the exterior between swaps is worth doing. My reasoning is also that with less gritty stuff on parts, there will less wear over time. Using dry type lubes really do result in a lot cleaner drivetrain overall and way faster cleaning of everything with a rag, just from less thick sticky accumulated excess. I find the rags I use last longer too due to less toothpasty gunk on them--handy on a trip so my rag lasts longer. Like I said, Im open to trying the modern waxing stuff, especially interested in the type of stuff that cycco and others use where its just a drip from a bottle, this seems like the fastest and less time consuming method. |
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