Tourist in MSN, don't you think those bad feeling about your LHT could be related to the 700c wheels vs the 26" of the Thorn?

Wondering if there wasn't a manufacturing defect in the frame because that is not what 90%+ of all LHT owners seem to declare. The rear triangle on my 56 LHT with 26" wheels doesn't wag at all when rear is heavily loaded. Of course the Sherpa is a beast and may well be the most over built stock expedition frame out there for comparison sake. And for what it's worth, never had any trouble with off road touring on the LHT, in fact it really shined in that area vs. some of my friends lighter tourers.

btw, if you think the LHT is a wet noodle, be careful of rebuilding an older Miyata touring frame, won't be your cup of tea.

I did my own redesign, with a Eugene based Cargo bike builder , in the early 90's
after having a 'tail wagging the dog' sense from my '85 Specialized Expedition on a long western to eastern Europe and back again Tour, in '91.

albeit subtile .. some, Ala VBQ readers , call it plane-ing the flex and rebound as you pedal,

Materials used went up in weight , (Obviously reading here much, people worry about what a touring bike, weighs)

4130 steel, 0.75" OD .049" wall twin top tubes, side by side also formed the rear triangle .. it descended solidly and did not flex with pedaling strokes

+ due to thicker tube wall the cantilever bosses don't splay when the brakes were applied ..


A Custom frame , using a flater oval for the top tube may offer some of the same benefits in stiffness ,
& still use a thinner wall tube to be attractively lighter..

round tube is cheaper, & the bottom line is part of the Import bike's selling point.

Interesting... I have a LHT from about 2007, and in my (albeit limited) experience, it handles load better than any other bike I've put panniers on. It always feels very stable, and has never started that terrifying shaking on a fast downhill, not even a tiny bit. I had a ball in the Swiss alps zooming down a pass in 15 minutes after spending hours coming up the other side. The fastest I've gone on the LHT has been 82km/h, though that wasn't with a load: it felt absolutely stable.

The frame does have considerable sideways flex at the bottom bracket if I mash it, but I don't ride like that (prefer high cadence due to s***** knees), so it doesn't bother me at all. I guess that would depend on a rider's pedalling style, and weight.

Having said all that: I've sadly never had the opportunity to ride a Thorn. I hope to one day...

Edit: better put something about off-road, as per thread subject. I have also taken the LHT on some pretty rough, washed-out 4wd tracks. It did fine once I let the air out of the 42mm Marathon ATBs. That's not actually "off-road" of course, but I haven't come across much actual off-road terrain over which I think I'd be able to ride any loaded touring bike. It's either sand, or too bushy, in the areas where I've toured.

The 700c wheels are XT steel axle hubs, 36 Wheelsmith spokes, A719 rims. Since I had laced those wheels up a decade ago, I suspected that they might be getting a bit looser. So, I asked a friend who is a bike mechanic to check spoke tension before the trip. I watched him as he used the Park spoke meter, the spoke tension was in the middle of the desired tension range. So, everything was tensioned right. That mechanic was also on the tour with me and he could not figure out why I was having so much trouble, but he commented that at times he could even see how bad the shimmy was from behind me.

I am not a big believer in the theory that 26 inch wheels are that much stronger than 700c. The diameter of the wheels is pretty close to the same, 559 mm vs 622 mm bead diameter. Thus the 700c bead diameter is only 11 percent bigger. I think the reason that some think that 26 inch wheels are so much stronger is general observation, mountain bike wheels usually have more robust rims than road bikes, thus they may have observed that road bike rims fail more often. The A719 rims on the 700c wheels are quite solid.

Yeah, I think the frame is defective. The bottom bracket shell was also defective, I had to have a shop re-cut the threads when I got the frame new, Surly sent me a flask and pair of socks as compensation for my having to have a shop fix the bad threading. I had to pay the shop bill.

I just wish I had loaded the frame down during the first 3 years of warranty to find out how bad it was.

I am glad you have had very good experience with your LHT.

A couple times several years ago on the LHT I pushed down on the right side pedal hard to accelerate away from a light that just turned to green - and had a sudden downshift as the frame flexed enough that the chain shifted to a smaller chainring. Back in the 70s when I worked in a bike shop I recalled hearing that Columbus tubing was less likely to have that problem than Reynolds tubing for larger sized high end frames, something to do with an internal stiffener. So I had heard of that happening before. But the LHT was the first time it had ever happened to me on a bike I rode. My knees can't handle that much pressure on the pedals anymore, so have not pushed that hard on a pedal for several years.

I still have not decided if I am going to donate the frame to a charity or not, have not ridden the LHT since I got home. Options I am considering are buy another 700c frame (maybe a VO frame?) or just use my 26 inch bikes for all my future riding - other than my foldup bike which has smaller wheels for obvious reasons.