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Why are there no Recent Stealth Camping Posts?

Old 08-14-06, 05:43 PM
  #1  
stokell
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Why are there no Recent Stealth Camping Posts?

So I will admit that this occupies much of my spare time, but usually the summer does not go by without someone making a post about camping on public land.

After being flamed over property rights, I've updated my journal and invite serious tourers to have a look and let me know what you think and if the journal is complete enough.
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Old 08-14-06, 05:53 PM
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I do enjoy those post on stealth camping, although I've never done it myself. I'm a day tourer. Besides, living in Los Angeles it would be quite dangerous.
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Old 08-14-06, 10:56 PM
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I always love to hear about stealth camping. I've done some no trace stealth camping myself.

Once in Germany I realized that I couldn't make it to the next city before dark. I saw a dirt road and a small forest. I talked to an older couple and asked them about the legalities of camping in the woods. They felt that "only a very bad person would not let me do so". So I rode down the dirt road, pushed my bike into the finely manicured woods and cooked a meal at dusk. I was going to wait til after dark to set up my tent. After a little while a car pulled up along the dirt road, someone got out and looked over my way for some time. Then he left.

It was now dark and I was considering setting up my tent. Two vehicles pulled up and two flashlights started moving towards me. A voice called out "Polizei! wer sind sie?". "Police! who are you?" I identified myself as a confused Canadian who "didn't know" that camping in the woods wasn't legal in Germany. After all it's legal in Canada I told them ;-)

The two officers were very friendly and told me how much they admired me for cycling all over their country. They insisted that I move on since the hunter who had the land tenure didn't want me there. It now dawned on me that the wooden tower near my campsite was for hunting ..doh! They then told me to just cycle up the road a few km's and they would just leave me alone. So I did just that.
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Old 08-14-06, 11:20 PM
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I stealth camp in Germany all the time. I wouldn't cook on someone else's land for fear of fires. If one waits till dusk and doesn't cook, it's hard to imagine anyone seeing or having a problem with it.
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Old 08-15-06, 09:26 AM
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here's my stealth campsite from Monday morning the 14th.

110 miles out of Seattle on Sunday, half on gravel rail-to-trail, then up a logging road outside of Cle Elum, Washington. Packed up and rode the 110 miles back to Seattle (9 hours) Monday.
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Old 08-15-06, 10:31 AM
  #6  
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Maybe nobody posts because it's not such a big deal. I camped once on the top of the mountain in the background. I got there at night after much climbing.

I've quite a bit of stealth and not-so-stealth camping while hitch hiking within Canada. Once in Jasper where people walking by woke me up, once in a ditch in Sakatchewan where I got up after the constant honking of cars. I was in plain view. Once in Sudbury where I wasn't hidden by anything but on a treeless hill so I couldn't be seen from the highway, another in Saskatchewan, behind some bushes, hidden from the road but not from the railroad. I'd wake up every time a train passed. I was packing inthe morning when a truck pulled over. I thought, WTF, a truck? it was a CN truck on rails.

My two favorites:
- In Kelowna, BC, I camped on top of a cliff overlooking some mansions.

- Again in BC, I had planned on camping on top of the Kootenay pass. When I got there, I found a small pond with a water pump, a toilet and a cabin with wood stove for skiers. I slept in the cabin.
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Old 08-15-06, 11:09 AM
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I love stealth camping but what more needs to be said on the subject that hasn't been said already?
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Old 08-15-06, 12:01 PM
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What more needs to be said??
Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll -

First, the various agencies managing public lands continue to restrict public access. Unless there is constant opposition we'll be locked out before long. Valles Caldera in New Mexico is a perfect example. Putchased with public funds seven years ago with a directive to be managed a a for-profit trust, it allows thousands of cows to graze but not a single person to camp for fear of damaging the "resource" - Hah!

Second, unless we remind people that they have a right to use the lands many newbies will meekly go to the various campgrounds, set up their tent in the allocated 6'x6' site next to a Winnebago and listen to horns honk all night as people get up to go into their coolers or to fins the flashlight. Maybe not all people want a more remote experience, but we have to be there to let them know they can.

Third, stealth camping sites are just, plain more beautiful. A few pictures now and then help confirm it. I'm still a little meek about stealth camping in national parks. One time in Glacier, the "designated" backcountry campsite was in a bunch of mosquito-infested undergrowth with no view when just a few yards away were lovely sites that were on durable surfaces with a little wind to keep down the bugs.

Honey Lake Valley, Calif/Nev Border - Memorial Day Weekend - Evening and the Next Morning
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Old 08-15-06, 01:43 PM
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jama,

The same things have been said many times over on dozens of threads in here. Anyone who wants information on stealth camping can google or search this forum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a stealth camper myself & I like it over organized site. But if you were to lobby for the right to stealth camp on wilderness lands & national parks and make it a public issue, we'll lose 100%.

Stealth camping is really just about using common sense and leaving no trace.
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Old 08-15-06, 02:00 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by jamawani
What more needs to be said??


Unless we remind people that they have a right to use the lands many newbies will meekly go to the various campgrounds, set up their tent in the allocated 6'x6' site next to a Winnebago and listen to horns honk all night as people get up to go into their coolers or to fins the flashlight. Maybe not all people want a more remote experience, but we have to be there to let them know they can.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Here in South America they don't call it stealth camping because you don't see many campgrounds. Back in Canada, the idea that you are trespassing on unimproved, unmarked, unfenced land that is not being cultivated or used for grazing is absurd. As stokell says in his journal you're not trespassing unless you refuse to leave. It's not stealthing if they know you are there, so you are only trespassing when you are not actually stealth camping.
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Old 08-16-06, 06:57 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by jamawani
What more needs to be said??
Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll -

First, the various agencies managing public lands continue to restrict public access. Unless there is constant opposition we'll be locked out before long.
I was puzzled to see posted signs along the Shavers Fork of the Cheat River in WV in what I thought was National Forest according to my map. Turns out it was NF, but leased out for hunting.
When I asked a local about camping, his response was "nothing will be said" if I wanted to camp there.
I only had two people (looking for a place to camp themselves) spot my free camping spots in six days.
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Old 08-16-06, 09:44 AM
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I find these stealth camping posts both interesting and informative. I have never stealth camped, even while cycling VA to CO on the TransAm in 2005. I just never considered it seriously, but now I wish I had.

In many parts of the TransAm, the distances between places to stay for the night (campgrounds, motels, etc.) were often inconvenient for me. For example, the first place was 36 miles from my day's starting point (way too short of a ride), and the second place was 85 miles (too long). So I would just stay at the first place, knowing that I could have done many more miles. I'm thinking now how great it would have been to stealth camp, say, after 60 miles of riding.

David in FL
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Old 08-16-06, 12:59 PM
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I'm extremely bad at Stealh camping. I think people stumbled upon us every single night. We would usually just rolling into a city and try and find a park or some bushes we could sleep at. this is in downtown portland where like 5 bums came upon us.
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Old 08-16-06, 01:11 PM
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Bronsk
Dang, that's not much cover,man. Ballsy. I'd call that Naked Stealth camping or maybe Landscaping Camping.
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Old 08-16-06, 01:27 PM
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I've camped in the grassy spots at freeway onramps a lot, once woke up to a dozen cops with flashlights shining in my eyes, seems someone had gone missing and I was seen from the freeway so the cops thought I was the missing person dumped along the road.

Most stealth camping is fine IF you leave no trace, not because you want to hide your activities, but because if you leave a mess people will take issue with it and you'll be forced out. Used to be a few great hideaway campsites around here, but people kept leaving messes and camping was eliminated.

I camped out in salinas once between the bushes along the highway and a board fence behind the houses, when I woke up and started getting everything together to continue on, I startled some girl who was out in her backyard feeding the dog, talked for a short while, swapped names etc, and got moving, 5 months later I ran into her camping out in golden gate park in san francisco, rode up to south sac with her, and ended up going with her for four years. So stealth camping can have unexpected results.

Ken.
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Old 08-16-06, 03:09 PM
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Why no recent posts? Because Stokell hasn't started a thread in a while.

" As stokell says in his journal you're not trespassing unless you refuse to leave. It's not stealthing if they know you are there, so you are only trespassing when you are not actually stealth camping."

That's not true in Ontario where Stokell and I live. It's true in some places but any fenced or agricultural land is de facto posted. And many of the local areas are within various minicipalities that also have ordinances.

"As stated earlier in this journal, stealth camping is staying overnight in a location which is out-of-sight, unmarked, unimproved."

That doesn't make any sense. That's defining the term with regard to the land type while the "stealth" in question is the tactic chosen by the camper. If you're good enough to stealth camp out in a location that isn't out of site, is marked and is "improved". more power to you. With good fieldcraft you can be in the open and unseen.
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Old 08-16-06, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1
Why no recent posts? Because Stokell hasn't started a thread in a while.

" As stokell says in his journal you're not trespassing unless you refuse to leave. It's not stealthing if they know you are there, so you are only trespassing when you are not actually stealth camping."

That's not true in Ontario where Stokell and I live. It's true in some places but any fenced or agricultural land is de facto posted. And many of the local areas are within various minicipalities that also have ordinances.

"As stated earlier in this journal, stealth camping is staying overnight in a location which is out-of-sight, unmarked, unimproved."

That doesn't make any sense. That's defining the term with regard to the land type while the "stealth" in question is the tactic chosen by the camper. If you're good enough to stealth camp out in a location that isn't out of site, is marked and is "improved". more power to you. With good fieldcraft you can be in the open and unseen.

Please try to get your quotation marks in the right place.

It is the Province of Ontario and not me that makes the laws. This is what the Crown says regarding trespass:
"2. (1)Every person who is not acting under a right or authority conferred by law and who,
(b) does not leave the premises immediately after he or she is directed to do so by the occupier of the premises or a person authorized by the occupier" (is guilty of an offence).

To me that means that if you are camping on private property you are not trespassing unless you are told to leave and refuse to do so. The Act goes on so say that methods of giving notice are:
"5 (1)
(a) orally or in writing;
(b) by means of signs posted so that that a sign is clearly visible in daylight under normal conditions from the approach to each ordinary point of access to the premises to which it applies; or
(c) by means of the marking system set out in Section 7"

Section 7 says that marking trees with a red mark is an acceptable sign.

Read and believe.
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Old 08-16-06, 08:08 PM
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"Please try to get your quotation marks in the right place."

I wasn't even quoting you, sounds like you are feeling... left out.

Rules and regulations are spread all over the place in our system. There is the statute, there are any applicable by-laws, there is case law, etc... So it doesn't much help to have just one piece of the puzzle.

"Prohibition of entry

3. (1) Entry on premises may be prohibited by notice to that effect and entry is prohibited without any notice on premises,

(a) that is a garden, field or other land that is under cultivation, including a lawn, orchard, vineyard and premises on which trees have been planted and have not attained an average height of more than two metres and woodlots on land used primarily for agricultural purposes; or

(b) that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the occupier’s intention to keep persons off the premises or to keep animals on the premises. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 3 (1)."

Note "woodlots", there is an interestingly vague concept.
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Old 08-17-06, 12:18 AM
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how about THIS addition to my stealth touring setup?

Digital camo tarps. bought some this spring and have been using them most every tour, (except last weekend, where i went super ultralite with a silicone tarp) - these are three bicycling camps from this spring and summer (snow pics, june 19,20,21 in Mt Rainier natl' park)

this humdoggies blend in A LOT of places, provide an effective line of sight block, and work well atop a pitched tent to hide the thing from prying eyes. I have used it with success 'stealth' camping for free in hiker/biker sites.... if you somehow forgot to pay, AND the ranger doesn't see you from the truck when they do their campground checks, is it considered 'stealth' camping?
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Old 08-17-06, 05:54 AM
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it's not like there's any proof that you didn't pay. I don't like campgrounds though, the ground is way too hard.
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Old 08-17-06, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
I have used it with success 'stealth' camping for free in hiker/biker sites.... if you somehow forgot to pay, AND the ranger doesn't see you from the truck when they do their campground checks, is it considered 'stealth' camping?
No, that's just theft.
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Old 08-17-06, 09:53 AM
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bwaughahahahaha........stickler.


if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it fall, does in make a noise?

i believe only REFUSAL to pay would be 'theft' and a mere 'forgetting' to pay is absentminded feebleness......

additionally, i have come across hiker/biker sites with no envelopes to pay the pipe....do you just stuff money into a metal tube in the middle of the woods so you can hang out overnight for 10-12 hours?
if you feel a BURNING ETHICAL NEED to pay at all campgrounds, maybe you'd like the KOA or the good sam endorsed ones......
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Old 08-17-06, 10:33 AM
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What about mindful forgeting?

Anyway, i am basically with you, I won't go out of my way to pay them, particularly in the off-season. But I pay them if they are there to be paid. Like you i probably am not stuffing money into a squirrel hole.
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Old 08-17-06, 11:11 AM
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Where do you get those?

Originally Posted by Bekologist
how about THIS addition to my stealth touring setup?

Digital camo tarps. bought some this spring and have been using them most every tour, (except last weekend, where i went super ultralite with a silicone tarp) - these are three bicycling camps from this spring and summer (snow pics, june 19,20,21 in Mt Rainier natl' park)

this humdoggies blend in A LOT of places, provide an effective line of sight block, and work well atop a pitched tent to hide the thing from prying eyes. I have used it with success 'stealth' camping for free in hiker/biker sites.... if you somehow forgot to pay, AND the ranger doesn't see you from the truck when they do their campground checks, is it considered 'stealth' camping?
Wow! Awesome photos! I really love the idea of camo tarps, but I haven't seen them anywhere. How do they work?

Currently I'm using a Hennessy hammock with a Coyote Brown fly. I was told that it was the colour that most people had trouble recognizing and therefore blended into the background. Is this significantly different?
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Old 08-17-06, 11:21 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
additionally, i have come across hiker/biker sites with no envelopes to pay the pipe....do you just stuff money into a metal tube in the middle of the woods so you can hang out overnight for 10-12 hours?
if you feel a BURNING ETHICAL NEED to pay at all campgrounds, maybe you'd like the KOA or the good sam endorsed ones......
I wouldn't throw money down an empty tube with no envelope either, but I wouldn't try to get around paying either, especially a biker/hiker site. If it's a public or private site, there's something to be paid for, whether it's the ranger (public), property taxes (private), the water well, the septic or outhouse, the sink, the mowing or the signage. Further, if you pay for a biker/hiker site, then they know it's been used, and usage means that biker/hiker sites don't go away.
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