Eh. If you look, a lot of nun and bekologist's optimizations aren't aimed at sleeping under a cabbage leaf. Same for the other ultra-light guys. They're aiming at having the necessary gear (very carefully tuned to suit an individual style) in the lightest possible weight. One guy may be happiest in a hammock, another may prefer a tent that's a good bit heavier and warmer.

I don't think it's possible to hit the road at less than 20lbs without doing a lot of miles, both touring and just plain regular riding. I don't think nun came up with his list on the first try, or even the 20th... and it keeps changing even now. If you *want* to be lighter, do a few more trips with that 28lb load, and then start weighing your gear. Odds are, you'll find things where you're sure you don't need it, or that are stupidly heavy for how much you use them. If you don't want it to be lighter, then I wouldn't worry about it... use stuff til it wears out.

Well put. I enjoy tweeking my gear, but the core camping stuff and arrangement of bags stays the same

don't get me wrong .i think these guy's a brilliant.but even 20lb seem's be to heavy for them ,there still trying to cut back on 20lb.ah i have a long way to go to be as expert as nun and bekologist'e, if i could only get the cloths sorted i think i would be half way there.

I don't really believe that I'm doing anything extreme or brilliant, just making sensible gear choices and maybe taking an irreverent view of the problem ie not going with the 4 pannier dogma. When I decided to include a computer in my gear I settled on a robust simple 2lb model. The extreme guys do it like this

http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/weight.htm

i will have to put myself into the fair weather tourist category.going to those extreams will make the cycling end much easy'r no doubt about that, but comfort wise you would have to be pushing it.all the gear i have would be classed as lightweight ,for instance pipedream down sleeping bag,exped s/mat.akto tent.optimus crux stove ,1 pot 1 cup 1 small pan.okay that lot don't weigh that much ,but a lot more comfortable than a sheet of bubble rap and a tent that leaks ...what i want to know nun is ,how does your choice of cloths work..for instance your rain jacket ,does it keep you warm and dry inside and outside,your base layers do the work as they should like keeping you sweat free and warm,and im talking here in really heavy rain .when i came home from france i binned all my so called wet gear ,pure rubbish..this is why im asking about cloths they weigh a lot and take up loads of room in panniers,but if you claim your gear does the job ,i reckon i could save some weight .nun im asking for advice here not criticizeing you in any way ,as i said you have this down to a fine art but you only give the gear you have ,a review on how the gear works would be fantastic.

I ride in Smartwool long sleeve T-shirts and they are very good for hot weather all the way down to freezing when I would put on two of them. For rain wear I've settled on the Rapha Stowaway jacket, a shower cap and rain booties. This won't keep out all the rain, but it's the best compromise I've found between getting wet from rain or sweat. I find the secret to riding in the wet id to keep your feet as dry as possible. I don't mind getting a bit wet on my upper body as long as my feet are dry. The wool baselayer does a good job keeping me warm even if it's damp. For really heavy rain I stop riding and put up my umbrella. For cold weather I'd break out the Marmot Driclime windshirt, wool hat and neck gaiter.

Panniers are heavy, but they do vary a lot. My Nashbar Waterproofs weigh 6 pounds 6 ounces for 2 front and two rear panniers. If you go with 4 of the front panniers the weight is 4 pounds 12 ounces. One guy here said his panniers (Arkel) and handlebar bag weighed 16 pounds empty!

I think that I would have plenty of room with four of the Nashbar front ones and may go that route next tour. With two rear and two front ones I had a lot of space in the bags even when I was over packed with way too much bulky clothing. Six pounds 6 ounces wasn't too bad and four pounds 12 ounces is even better.

thank's nun i'll take a serious look at the smartwool stuff.i have the sealskinz socks found them to be very good,kept my toes nice and warm/dry.anyway nun i'll keep an eye on your post's just in case you come up with new idea's well done and thank's for the advice..

nun,

How has the gear you chose worked out over the last two years since your originial post ?

In my opinion this is one of the best jackets ever made. I've used mine to the top of Rainier to touring. It just flat works. Is light and keeps light drizzle off better than you would think. Packs small as well.

Did I say I like this thing? :)

I have no experience with front panniers and only 2.5 season tour so I don't feel teh urge. Climbing big hills looks tough for the loaded front and back rigs. I doubt my pack exceeds 20lbs. and mange with rear panniers and handlebar bag. I'm interested in how much I can put in an oversized saddlebag-rackless rear pack and handle bar bag.