Bar end vs. down tube vs. brifter
 

Hi All,

I'm looking to get into some light touring and I've noticed that most touring bikes use either bar end or down tube shifters. Can someone explain to me why this is? Is it because of the inherent simplicity of these designs or is there some other advantage that I'm unaware of.

Thanks!

Yes, it is all about elegance, durability, and in-the-field repairability.

Nevertheless, my main touring bike has brifters, and I would not trade them for all the tea in China!

Most major brand toures use integrated brifter style. It is only some more exp-worthy bikes or boutique companies who offer bar-ends. DTs are only found on entry-level bikes or older ones.

The advantages are mainly about the friction mode where you can make use of any available parts without worrying about compatibility. On tour, your replacement derailleur is likely to be a steel Shimano SIS model, quite usable but possibly not with 8/9 speed shifters.

Bar ends and DT can be stripped and cleaned easily. The main source of trouble is if you immerse a brifter in muddy water.

I use brifter on my tourer but carry a rear suntour lever that fixes to the DT boss. Many modern frames lack even the boss and use a cable guide brazed directly to the frame.
I find that DT shifter are very quick and direct. The extra cabling of bar ends makes them a bit vague in comparison but at least you can keep hold of the bars on a descent.

For what it's worth, you can tour on almost anything if you are sufficiently determined....

Most people like to tour with drop bars for the usual reasons -- more hand positions, used to it, and so forth. Some folks like to use trekking bars and/or aero bars; Bike Friday has their "H bars"; my personal preference is flat bars with Ergon grips and bar-ends.

As to shifter types:

- you can have problems mounting a handlebar bag if you use STI levers. The bag may well bump into, and therefore break, the cables. (I've seen it happen btw)
- DT / bar-end shifters tend to be much less expensive than brifters, afaik
- tourers rarely need the speed advantages offered by STI

I could also refer to tourers as retro-grouches stuck in the 80s, but I don't have a fire extinguisher handy. ;)

Not if you use a V-brake noodle to move the cable out of the way.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...bar-detail.jpg.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...hifter-top.jpg

And some of us old guys are neoretro, i.e. we embrace new stuff but we're selective about it.

Nice! Very simple and a great idea. I'll remember that one.

I did have brifters on my tourer, however they did not interfere with the front bag -maybe they were squished to one side slightly, but certainly not enough to affect anything. Anyway, I've now got trekking bars and SRAM shifters so it's a moot point now for me.

I have brifters AND CX inline levers so I have pretty much written off using a handlebar bag and willl just go with a simple map case. Very good idea with the cable noodles though!

For me, brifters are not about speed. They are about control. One's hands remain on the brake hoods, and gear changes are quick and easy. With shifters on the down tube, you ride with one hand while changing gears. I have hit road bumps while changing gears on my old bike, and although I have never spun out, I have come close a few times.

Bar-end shifters would be a good compromise.

The other problem with brifters is how they can limit your gearing choices. Shimano brifters cannot be used with MTB-type front derailleurs since the required cable pull is different. This means you are limited to road-type front derailleurs. These don't shift well over smaller chainrings with an indexed shifter. They will work OK with a friction shifter. Loaded tourers will generally use smaller chainrings, hence the problem.

On the Campy side of the equation, their front brifter is fine, but the rear brifter needs to be used with a Campy derailleur and cassette. This limits how low you can go on the rear.

In both cases, there are workarounds that will allow you to use the brifters with gearing suitable for loaded touring. The simplest solution, however, has been to use Shimano bar-end shifters which will permit the use of nearly any front derailleur along with wide-range Shimano rear derailleurs and cassettes.

It's not really a problem. I'm using a set of RaceFace Turbines (46/34/22) on my touring bike with a Tiagra front that shifts just fine with STI shifters. I'm also using a Shimano XT trekking crank in a 48/36/26 with an Ultegra on my commuter. They work too, however the Ultegra isn't as good a triple front derailer as the Tiagra. It's narrower in between the plates and is touchier about set up.

I have a Jandd (I think) bag and an Ortlieb bag, both can be extended out further so that you can use the CX levers. Look here (bottom of the page) for the Ortlieb. If the bag uses Klickfix connectors, you can get extenders here. REI's house brand bags are Klickfix.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...0AasmbRi4cs2LA

"Bar end vs. down tube vs. brifter"

How about, None of the above :)

I like robow's setup, they are my favorite shifters. How do you find those handlebars...they kinda look funny but I'm wondering if they are just as straight bar for handling?

robow

I'm curious, what are those shifters and to which derailuers are they connected?

Thanks

Kevin

COOL!

Turd, I have a similar set-up to robow, but with bar-ends mounted with thumbies. It is a great set-up for me. You get more hand positions than with straight bars.

Kevin, the shifters are typical mountain bike thumb shifters attached to a trekking handlebar that Nashbar and Harris cycling carry. It's wonderful for all the hand positions available. I toured for years on typical drops but over time I began developing numbness in in my most two distal fingers on each hand and this solved the problem.

Trekking Bars
 

May be off topic but I use the same handlebars. Of course, I replaced the straight bars on my hybrid bike and I've never used dropped handlebars. But I can say that I absolutely love the trekking bars, best $20 I ever spent on my bike.

Attachment 41524

Brifter
 

Actually, Campy brifters work just fine with Shimano rear. A $35 dollar part "shiftmate" works very well. I find Campy brifters an advantage over the Shimano counterpart as Handlebar bags are no problem. The front dérailleur is non-indexed, can be non-Campy and can be feathered or micro adjusted. Most important, Campagnolo is re-buildable as Shimano may not.

Richard

My bikes have one of each mentioned in the thread title:

Barcons on my Bike Friday
Campy ERGO on my Bianchi
Downtube shifters on my Pog
...and the Rohloff twist grip mounted to the stem on my Mercian

If I get used to riding any one of these bikes, I sometimes have a reflexive patterned response when riding another to use the shifting I've gotten used to. For a good 2 days last summer, I kept making phantom motions with my hands towards the ends of my handlebars on my Mercian because I got used to riding the Friday. That was weird. I kept saying to myself, "OK, stop doing that," but it didn't help much. :p

But I don't really have a preference, except to say that I like the downtube way the least and the Rohloff probably the best, but only because I like the Rohloff so much. They all have advantages.

I use bar ends with Shimano 9 speed, primarily because they're much less expensive than STI. If I was racing I would doubtless use STI for the advantage of shifting without changing hand positions, but in the real world I don't see any handicap.

But then, in the real world I don't see downtube friction as much of a handicap either.:)

That's a good point Six jours-- flipper shifters, mounted on the down tubes, bar ends, or handle bars, are a very good value for the money. Here's a sample build prce list.

8 speed bar end shifters-- $60
Deore rear derailer-- $30
Front derailer (Sora) $20
8 speed cassette & chain $35

total drivetrain cost-- around $150

A set of 105 brifters costs $200 alone!

Both systems will work for long time, but flipper style shifters last a long, long time.

Factoring in the life of the parts... flipper shifters are really a better value.

But riding STI is cool.....I can't blame anybody for having it.
I'm just too poor/cheap to do so myself.

I can think of one big advantage brifters have over bar-ends: with brifters, you can shift instantly, without moving your hands. In a race, I would want this advantage.

For everything else, I feel absolutely no handicap with indexing bar ends. It takes an additional half-second to move my hand to the lever, which of course is utterly irrelevant to the recreational rider. It does require momentarily lifting the hand from the bar, but then so does reaching for a water bottle, fishing around in a jersey pocket, or picking my nose, so I don't personally see it as relevant. And shift quality is everything I could ask for. I can hardly imagine it getting any better.

So to my mind, the additional $$$ spent on brifters would buy me a grand total of... 1/2 second faster shifts. Riding all by myself. In the bike lane. On a 30 pound bike with baggage.

As you say, I don't have a problem in the world with the fellow who wants brifters on his touring bike, but as far as I am concerned, that extra $200 buys an awfully nice bottle of wine... :)

Thanks for the input everyone!

robow, that's a great idea! I hadn't thought of using standard mtb issue shifters.

In addition to the occasional tour, this bike will be my workhorse. I'll be using it for shopping and for carrying the kids around. With a piccolo on the back and possibly a trailer too, I think that keeping my hands on the bars as much as possible is a good idea. It sounds like if I'm planning on using brifters, then Campy is the way to go.

I guess I need to decide on a bar first. Does anyone NOT like their trekking bar?

If you're going to be using a trekking bar, most trekking bars I've seen use mountain components. This means you can use inexpensive Shimano "DualControl" levers for braking and click-shifting at your fingertips (or the SRAM equivalent, or grip shifters with regular mountain brake levers, or... you end up with lots of choices)

The only other thing to be aware of is that mountain levers pull the right amount of cable for v-brakes, not cantilevers or calipers.