NeezyDeezy

I just scored this on eBay, because it's in my size and I needed panniers and a handlebar bag. I think I came out okay.

Does anyone know if I can put 700c wheels, bar end shifters, and a 175mm crank on it? If so, what are some good resources for information regarding how to make these upgrades/modifications to an older bike? Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

erikasberg

Well, 700c might be possible or it might not. But if you´re not planning on riding it in any third world country then just overhaul the wheels and ride them. Finding 27" shouldn´t be that hard. Downtude shifters it already has and since it´s a tall bike the lenght of the crankarms should be fine. So basically, do a general overhaul and you should be fine. Enjoy!
/Erik

NeezyDeezy

Oops, I meant bar end shifters, which I would like to switch to but I don't know how. Would someone be kind enough as to point me in the right direction to get started?

NeezyDeezy

bump

becnal

Sweetness!!!!

cyccommute 

I happen to own one of these. It's a good bike (not as good as my current Cannondale but still a good bike). It looks like it's still pretty stock. Changing to 700C isn't much of an issue, I did mine a long time ago and never had problems. The cantilever brakes have plenty of adjustment.

Installing the barends are dead simple. Here's the Park website instruction. If you go with friction mode, you can keep the rear wheel and freewheel. If I were doing the bike, I'd keep the front hub and build a wheel around it. It's a cartridge bearing hub and is a super hub. The rear hub is a freewheel hub which has some issues. Getting 5 speed freewheels is difficult. Getting freewheels in general is difficult. You can do it but you are limited to a few selections. Unfortunately, you are going to have to replace the rear wheel with something that is inferior to the cartridge hub with a 130mm width. This means a road hub. There's nothing wrong with the road hub, it just won't be quite as good as the other hub.

The width of the original frame is 126mm which means you'll have to spread the rear triangle a little to put a 130mm hub in there. Don't coldset it, just use the springiness of the frame. It will fit. It makes changing flats a little more bothersome but it's not worth doing a cold set on it.

The crank is pretty straight forward too. It's a normal english thread and with a bottom bracket shell width of 68mm. You can use an ordinary sealed Shimano bottom bracket. The derailers are okay but you might want to look at replacing them with something more modern...especially if you want to go with index shifting. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the bike has a Suntour VxGT rear derailer on it or a Suntour Mountech.

NeezyDeezy

Hey Cyccommute, thanks a lot for the great feedback! I think my bike might be a little bit older than yours, it's got centerpull brakes, not cantilevers (unfortunately). That's why I ask about 700c wheels, I don't know much about whether or not it will be compatible. Depending on how good shape the brakes are in, though, I may buy some V-brakes if I can mount them on the frame (I haven't gotten it yet).

Enjoy the donuts, because you're right about the derailers - they're mountech. I'll probably have a few more questions, especially about wheels when I get the bike. Thanks.

cyccommute 

Unless the picture is wrong, it has cantilevers (all of the 610's did). V-brakes probably wouldn't be a bad upgrade but use the proper levers and not travel agents. Those don't really work well in my experience.

tacomee

cyccommute-- what size headset did the 610 come with? The 1 inch JIS type? or the modern standerd 1 inch?

NeezyDeezy---

It's a cool bike. I second the idea of a better rear hub-- a new 130mm road hub, or a NOS (new old stock) 126mm casette hub, you could dig up on EBAY. Get some nice Sun or Mavic rims (CR-18 are cheap and haven't failed me)

You're new bike has down tube shifters...very nice. I wouldn't change them right away-- ride them around some and see if you like them. you can switch to barcons later if you want

I would bet the brakes on the 610 aren't all that good compared to modern standerds. Get DiaComp levers (model 287 I think) and Deore or Avid V-brakes-- I'm pretty sure these will work with 700c wheels.

Good luck and happy riding.

erikasberg

YEah, those are cantis bro, and the good kind at that! Slap some Kool Stop pads on them and they should be fine. As for the wheels, I would vote for keeping both hubs and building wheels around them, finding freewheels isn´t THAT hard. Try to get one with a good range say from 13 to 28 or 32 cogs. I also wouldnt change the downtube shifters just yet, try them out and see how you like them.
If you really do want to spend money, buy a nice Brooks saddle and some levers with hoods on them. Just my opinions..
/Erik

cyccommute 

I don't know. I've replaced the headset a couple of times but I never had to ask for anything special. I just asked for a 1" headset and never had fit problems.

On the brakes, if they are stock (which the bike appears to be), they were short little armed cantilevers. I replaced them (and most of the other stuff) pretty quickly. Personally, I'd go for a set of Shimano cantilevers (Damn you, Shimano!) or Cane Creek cantis. I'd stay away from the Avid Shortys. Avid makes great V-brakes and good discs but the Shorty brakes are sqeeeeeeeeeeeallllllly...no mater how much you adjust them. Which is really a shame.

NeezyDeezy

I want to say thanks a lot for all the information, Erickasberg, Tacomee, and Cyccommute.

As far as your advice, I would prefer levers with hoods as well, so it seems like I might as well go with V-brakes and the Dia Compe 287V. The only issue is that I REALLY like in-line brake levers, and the only ones I know of are short pull. Maybe I will stick to new cantilevers AND new standard brake levers with hoods so I can use the inlines, but if anyone knows a solution, I'd appreciate it!

NeezyDeezy

I just got the tracking number, and the fedex website lists the package weight as 40 pounds, OUCH! I didn't know these things were such beasts...

cyccommute 

They really aren't. It's the packing that added up. The bike should be around 25 to 26 lbs without the box.

NeezyDeezy

Could you please explain this to me? Thanks!

erikasberg

I would guess that he is reffering to the fact that most hubs produced these days are made for casettes rather than screw on freewheels which might make finding suitable parts a bit challenging. Not impossible at all but you might not be able to pick one up at the closest x-mart so to speak.

cyccommute 

It mostly has to do with getting freewheels. You can still get them but they are of pretty low quality and limited gear selection. For example, you can probably go with a 6 speed freewheel on the current hub. You might even be able to squeeze a 7 in there (it's been a while and I can't remember if I did ). Nashbar sells a 6 speed freewheel but it's a 14x28...not a very low gear especially considering that for the stock crank you can only go to a 26 or 24 tooth inner chainwheel. With a 14 tooth high gear, you are going to have to use a 52 tooth outer chainwheel to get any kind of range. If you wanted to change cranks and go with a nice trekking crank with a 48/36/26 or a mountain bike crank with a 44/32/22, you are going to have a really low high gear... 92 gear in. and 84 gear in., respectively. The 92 is workable (although low for my tastes) and the 84 is just plain silly! I've ridden mountain bikes with that kind of gearing and you spend most of your time coasting

A 11-34 cassette will give you a super low and a decent high gear, but you'd have to get a new hub to do that.

A freehub (cassette hub) is also stronger because the hub bearings are mounted further outboard on the wheel. I've never really had a problem with freewheel hubs but the bearings that support the wheel are the width of the freewheel distant from the dropouts. On a freehub they are right at the dropout which means less likelihood that the axle will bend or break.

NeezyDeezy

Can anyone recommend a chain replacement?

cyccommute 

Sram PC 48 or 58.

NeezyDeezy

Thanks Cyccommute, you're the best.

NeezyDeezy

Do you know if a shimano mega 7 freewheel will fit on the stock hub that came with my miyata 610? It currently has a 14-28, and I'd really like to change that to 11-34, but I'm not sure if it would fit or if I'd even need a new derailleur... How can I know before I order the freewheel?

EDIT - I just read the sheldonbrown page about this. I guess I'd have to pay to have my bike shop re-dish the wheel and respace the frame... Ugh. I am beginning to regret buying this bike.

Actually, Cycommute, you might be able to tell me this - if the miyata currently has a 5 speed freewheel, does this automatically mean it has 120mm spacing?

cyccommute 

I'm not sure if they were 120 or 126. I've put 130 mm hubs in there without respacing. The bike has been through so many iterations that I can't recall what it was originally. It came with a 5 speed freewheel, I've put in 6 speed, I had it indexed with 7 freehub. I don't recall if I had a 7 speed freewheel on the original hub or not.

As for the range, you shouldn't have any issues with a 14-34 in 5 or 6. I'm not sure if the 7 is that much thicker than the 6, however. Your old mountech derailer should handle the 34 tooth cog without problems and I'd be tempted to try a 7 speed freewheel on it since it's friction shifting. You only have problems with shifters when they are indexed.

Let me look in my bin of old junk and see if I can sort out whether I had 7 speeds on it tonight.

NeezyDeezy

Thanks Cyccommute for responding so fast! The Miyata is 120mm rear spacing, I just found out.

The main issue is, I want to be able to swap out my 5 speed suntour 14-28 freewheel for a Shimano MFHG50, which is a 7 speed that is 11-34. That would provide quite a great boost in range. The problem is this, according to Mr. Brown:

"A 120 mm hub can usually be spaced out to 126 to work with a 6- or 7-speed freewheel. This is done by adding spacer washers between the right cone and locknut. You may also need to replace the axle with a longer one, but more often this is not necessary if you move the axle over a bit so that there's still a bit of axle protruding past the locknuts on both sides.

Since you have to add most of the spacers to the right side, this moves the rim off center. This needs to be corrected by re-dishing the wheel. The re-dishing is accomplished by tightening the right-side spokes and sometimes loosening the left-side spokes. The resulting unbalanced tensions will weaken the rear wheel, so this is a marginal solution for heavier riders or for touring applications.

In addition, the longer length of unsupported axle on the right side, which is necessary for clearance with the wider freewheel can lead to broken/bent axles."

I sort of suspected this all along, but I'm not sure if:

A) Have the patience or resources to switch everything over to a modern wheelset (and drivetrain...)
B) The 120mm dropout spacing even CAN be spread safely to 135mm... at least without affecting the rest of the bike.

what to do... what to do...

cyccommute 

There's these. Pretty cheap even if they are 27". Or a Phil for $138. Look here too. They have some old stuff that might work.

Although I've never done the coldset thang, I've heard that it's not that hard. Look at Sheldon Brown's site and see what you think.

NeezyDeezy

Thanks again. I've decided to just focus on what I bought the bike for, which is to bike and not worry about my equipment. I'll do a few tours as is, it won't kill me if my knee problems act up because I don't have the gear ratios I need, and screw efficiency... If I ever decide to do a tour for more than a week or two, then I'll consider if it'd be worth it to get a new bike. In the meantime, I think the best cure for my mild case of buyer's remorse is to get in the saddle and ride.