pothound

how is the quality of sugino xd600 crankset compared to the ultegra crank?
thank you
pothound

Old Hammer Boy

For Touring either would be okay. I like the Sugino (have one on my LHT) because of its traditional styling, square-tapered BB and clean lines. As to durability, I would guess they are both about the same. The stock rings are more suited for touring gearing on the Sugino. I also have an Ultegra triple on my performance road bike, and it's a good crankset, too.

pothound

i bought a cannondale touring frame. i have a road bike with ultegra components. i wanted to transfer the ultegra crank to the touring frame, but considered the sugino crank with a square tapered bottom bracket.
thank you
pothound

staehpj1

I don't think the Ultegra accepts middle rings smaller than 39t. If I am right about that I wouldn't consider it for touring.

We used Sugino XD600's on our three bikes for our transamerica trip and were very happy with them. Two of us did opt to go to a smaller inner ring though.

nun

Both are good cranks, but the Sugino, being a 110/74r ather than the 130/74 Ultegra triple, lets you use a smaller middle ring and is better suited to touring

cyccommute 

The Shimano Trekking is a 104/64 which allow for even lower gearing (down to 20 teeth). Nashbar still has them for $60 (they much have bought a whole shipload). You have to use an Octalink bottom bracket but that's not a bad thing

markw

The XD600 is an excellent crankset. Uses a traditional square taper bb. I've got mine on my LHT with a 110 BB spindle length. 107 would work too. Nice is that the 110/74 is easy to find sprockets for.
Lick bike has the XD600 for $75. https://tinyurl.com/6vzjc

invisiblehand

I have been looking for a "high performance" trekking crankset myself. My issue with the crankset linked above or the XT 48/36/26 is that the chainline is a bit off since both are designed for MTBs. Mind you, I can't write for certain the the 5 mm really matters for the front derailer or a performance issue.

--Regarding performance, I recall in a Journal of Human Power article that cross chaining has little effect. But I am neither a physicist nor an engineer.

--Regarding the front derailer, since the bike will be a sport touring bike with an emphasis on the sport, I am sticking with STI shifting. But I can't write from experience that a 105 triple derailer (designed for a 50t chainring) or the IRD compact triple derailer will slide far enough out to avoid chainrub.

--I read that some people have issues with the wider cranks (Q-factor??). I am somewhat concerned since hurting my knee last year. To avoid pain, I have worked really hard on my mechanics and wonder whether something--that appears so minor--could have negative ramifications.

I have found the Nashbar Trekking crankset for $90 https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...0Road%20Cranks

It uses an ISIS BB, has a 110/74 BCD, and appears to be oriented for road bikes.

I have also read about a Sugino Alpina 2 Direct Drive which is supposed to come in a double and triple with 110 BCD instead of 130. However, I can only find the double and only references to a 48/36/26 triple.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=2220

Any thoughts or ideas?

invisiblehand

Oh I forgot to mention the IRD triplizer for 110 BCD compact cranks ...

https://www.interlocracing.com/triplizer.html

... should only work with square taper or ISIS/Octalink cranks.

invisiblehand

Geez ... I must be loosing my mind. One more thing.

I understand that Salsa and perhaps a few other companies produce a 38t 130 BCD middle ring ... although I do not know whether it is ramped and pinned. Again, I have no experience with this. I imagine that the crank spider must come pretty close to a 38t middle chainring.

So the Ultegra triple could potentially become a 48/38/26.

cyccommute 

With a 'normal crank', i.e. not external bearing, you can adjust the chain line with the bottom bracket width. I've done this on road two bikes that I use mountain bike cranks on. Sheldon Brown has all the information needed for determining the chainline.


Again, you need the proper chainline and bottom bracket width to make it work. But it's not a problem. I have an Ultegra front derailer and a Tiagra front shifting 48 teeth and 46 teeth. The Tiagra even worked for a 44 tooth crank. Of the two...or three if you include the 105...derailers, the Tiagra is actually a better derailer for triples. The plates are thinner and set wider apart. The Ultegra is picky about set up but the Tiagra is a bit more forgiving.

I can't really address this. I ride both road bikes and mountain bikes. I never noticed a difference when I had 105s on the road bike nor now that I have trekking cranks on the road bike.

A 110/74 crank is limited to 24 teeth on the inner ring. The 104/64 is limited to 22. If you could find a 94/56 you could go down to 20.

The Sugino Alpina is external bearing, which is good. Since I have no experience with it, I can't comment further.

nun

For the ultimate in flexibility, and a bit of bling, what about a TA Carmina in either 130-74, 110 -74, 104-64 or 94-58 triple

https://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/ped_car_gb.htm#

invisiblehand

I looked at the LX crank in the past. The description reads that it requires the use of a particular BB; "BB-ES51 68mm or 73mm shell width by 121mm or 126mm spindle length." So if I want to pull in the chainline by say another 3 mm then I could just pick up a 118 mm bottom bracket here?

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...0&category=347

Interesting thought. Given the entire crank is only $60--cheaper than the three chainrings at many places--it seems worth the effort.

quester

How do you come up w/ this minimum? Casting about, I find Sheldon Brown saying that a 64 could run a (22 inner ring). Do you have another source for this info?

I ask as a relative newbie to these issues. I would like to put a 22-tooth inner ring on the xd600, but Sheldon says no....

invisiblehand

What combination are you riding now?

-G

cyccommute 

I was incorrect. The 64mm BCD only goes to 22. You need a 56/58 mm BCD to get to 20.

And the Sugino will only go down to a 24.

quester

Right now I'm riding mostly a jamis quest w/ a 30-tooth granny. The short tours (< 1 week) I've done I've used a mountain bike. But my LHT complete arrives in three days...

pothound

thanks for your comments and suggestions.
after 3 weeks my cannondale touring frame came in. now i have to make decisions, which ultegra parts to use from my road bike and which parts to buy. i have 36 spoke open pro wheels with ultegra hubs. the rear axle is 135mm on the touring frame. i have to make a choice, put a longer axle with spacers in my rear wheel hub to bring it out to 135mm, or just make a touring wheel with an xt hub. i'm concerned about a chainline problem. instead of using my ultegra crank, i like the sugino xd600 crank. i would need a square tapered bottom bracket. which one and how long? it will take a different brake system, i'm thinking shimano brr550? this frame also requires a threadless headset,need to do research.
many decisions.
thank you again.
pothound

nun

Don't compromise and try to make your road bike stuff fit. For the wheel look at other MTB/touring hubs out there like White Industries etc as well as the XT. Consider some Velocity Dyads or Sun CR-18 rims. For the BB cartridge Phil Wood is excellent as its supper tough and you can adjust it easily. I use a 111mm with my Sugino XD. For the headset go with Ultegra, or Chris King

cyccommute 

Good choice.

The Cannondale should take either. I think the drop out is a 132.5mm. Just squeeze it down for the 130mm or spread it slightly for a 135mm hub. For a touring wheel, the 135 would be marginally better...a squidge less dish.

Before you go for the XD, look at Sheldon Brown's article on how to calculate it and set it up. Maybe all you need is a new bottom bracket.

IRD Cafam brakes are about the same price and at least they aren't Shimano I have them on my bike and they are excellent. Don't go with Avid Shortys unless you like squealllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyiiiliinnnnggggg to a stop

It's tough to beat a Cane Creek S-2 headset for value. Kings are great stuff (I have 4) but pricey. The Cane Creek works pretty well if you need to economize. If you know what length stem you want, talk to me, I have a bucket load of them in the 110mm to 150mm length.

pothound

you are right. i didn't have to put a longer axle in rear hub. it fit with a small amount of flexing. i just assumed it to be 135mm instead of 132.5. you save me some work plus a possible chainline problem.
i want to sit upright on this touring frame, so i'm not cutting the fork. instead of transferring my road handle bars with the ultegra stis to this touring bike i was thinking mountain bike handle bars with rise for comfort. as of this morning its only a thought.
thank you
pothound