Relative newbie's reviews of LHT, Brooks, Ortlieb, Fenix....
 

I've recently started putting together gear for a long tour next summer, and thought I'd do a quick review the items I've bought from the perspective of a relative newbie to the touring game. To understand where I'm coming from, I'm 43, 6'2", weigh about 250, but bike a reasonable amount: ~5k miles total over the last four years. I commute, go on occasional weekend rides, and do the occasional century. However, I haven't toured, other than one 3-day and one 5-day tour a few years ago. I think sometimes newbies get put off by the nits the old pros pick w/ equipment that is probably perfectly good for anyone who doesn't do a trans-am each year. So these are my impressions of the equipment I've put together so far. My end goal is to do a 6-week tour of the pacific coast, w/o totally breaking the bank.

BIKE: Surly LHT 60-cm

My old bikes were a jamis quest for the weekend rides, and a Specialized Rockhopper for commuting. The quest is not set up for touring, doesn't have the brazeons, clearance, gearing, wheels, etc. for touring, and in fact will not accomodate tires bigger than 700x28 (and only some brands, at that). I used my mountain bike for the smaller tours, but also had a number of shortcomings.

After reading as much as I could, there didn't seem to be anything in the LHT complete's class in terms of bang for the buck. So I ordered one, sight unseen. The current setup, as seen by my iphone this morning, is here:
http://www.kelehers.org/pics/bikepanniers.jpg

I've ridden it about 400 miles, including one century. After replacing the smallest chainring w/ a 24-tooth, I have a higher high gear than my road bike, and a 19" low gear (almost as good as my mtn bike). I've been thinking of even trying to get a lower gear, as even in the best of worlds I'll still be a 200+ lb rider next year, but I'll probably stick w/ the 19".

The friction shifters took a bit of getting used to, but I think I'm now a convert. Fast shifting is still sometimes a problem, as getting the shift exactly right is a matter of touch. This can be a problem when I'm trying to stay w/ a paceline going over rolling hills, as I have to move my hand down to the shifter, shift, and then get back up (I usually ride w/ my hands on the bar tops or hoods). On the other hand, I don't spend too much time in pacelines, and in any case I'm getting batter at it. On the upside, I don't have to worry about cables stretching, and I can shift through many gears at once. I guess the best testimonial is that I keep the rear derailleur exclusively in the friction mode at this point. And, of course, they are dirt simple to dissemble and fix.

The fit and finish of the bike is fine, and it is loaded w/ thoughtful little extras.

One nit is that the bike does not come w/ barrel adjusters for the brakes. Since I spend most of my time on the bar top, I added cross brake levers, which allow me to brake from the top, and have built-in barrels.

My only unhappiness comes from the stem/handlebar subsystem. The stem has a stack of spacers, which looks a bit odd. Nonetheless, this is really a plus, as it gives me flexibility in handlebar height. I have not yet changed the stock height.

I feel that the LBS intalled the handlebar rotated a bit too far upwards, it's a little difficult to reach the breaks when in the drops.

I'm not sure the size of the handlebar, but it feels a bit narrow to me. I am 6'2", and used to commuting w/ bar-ends on my mtn bike, so I still might get used to it. It's only a minor problem, in any case.

The stem is angled upwards. This is really only a problem because I use an Ortlieb handlebar bag, which, when tightened, ends up angling the bag up. This makes the whole thing seem bigger, and probably makes it less efficient, wind-wise.

The geometry seems right, I finished the century ride in pretty good shape, and there are no problems w/ my size 12 shoes hitting wheels or bags. I'm definitely not as fast as on the quest, yet I don't think the difference is large. The LHT is does feel significantly less nimble than my road bike, probably a function of the longer wheel base and not indicative of any inefficiency. In any case, it doesn't bother me. Overall, the ride and feel are quite similar to the Trek 520, but the LHT complete has advantages in clearance, gearing, price, etc.

ORTLIEB BAGS

I bought a pair of the bikepacker plus's, and attached them to an old jandd rack. The waterproofing works well, so far, and the capacity is fine. I love the clamping system. Once adjusted, it is extremely easy to put them on and take them off, they don't rattle, and they stay far back on the rack so my feet don't hit them. I kind of miss not having pockets on the top, as this is where I used to keep my keys, wallet, etc. However....

I also bought the handlebar bag. This carries quite a bit, has internal dividers, and is generally very useful. I also keep my garage door opener in one of the outside mesh pockets, letting me open the garage door as I roll down the street merely by swatting the side of the bag. Previously, I'd have to stop, twist, and fumble in my pannier top pocket to find the silly thing. It's a small thing, but makes me smile every time I use it, even after a couple months.

The main problem is the attachment issue above, and the fact that it takes up the entire bar. There is no place to mount a light! This could be a big issue for some, but I probably bike in the dark a couple dozen times a year, and never more than a half hour. I have a superflash and a cateye 1100 on the back, and a fenix l2d premium for my helmet, so I'm covered. However, this is certainly a potential problem, especially for those w/ longer commutes.

FENIX FLASHLIGHT

Since I mentioned it above, this is a great flashlight. $60, 180 lumens, and can easily be helmet mounted w/ either a twofish block, or even just a vecro tie. I prefer this to something like a stella on the helmet, as it doesn't need an external battery pack or cable, and it's a flashlight for when I camp. Note that I compared the beam to a friends stella-n (also 180 lumens), and they were quite comparable. The stella's beam was a bit more concentrated, but I'm not entirely sure which beam I prefer. However, the fenix is also 1/4 the price of the stella....

BROOKS B17

All the tourers seem to love these. I bought one and it was comfortable right off the bat, despite not having been treated in any way. Right now I'm riding at about 250 lbs, and most saddles are painful. I don't even want to talk about how my butt felt after finishing the previous century, or after riding 200 miles of gravel on the C&O canal. However, 100 miles on this saddle in the last century was extremely comfortable, w/ a couple of caveats.

I have yet to get a saddle angle that I'm entirely happy with. Either I'm sliding down and putting too much pressure on my hands/shoulders (this happened in the century), or the nose is too high, leading to other problems.

The other issue is that the saddle is sagging. Again, I weigh 250, which might just be too much for this saddle. Unlike for most folks, though, it was comfortable from the beginning, and became more so. However, it started to sag after 200 miles. I tightened it up a bit, and all was fine for a while, but it's sagging again. I will tighten again, but I do worry that I'll ruin it at some point. There are lots of dire warnings about tightening brooks saddles on these pages, although I couldn't get anyone to give me a first-hand report of what happens when you go to far. Presumably it will tear but, again, I haven't heard from anyone this has actually happened to.

Before the sagging issue started concerning me, I ordered a second (honey-colored) B17 for my trainer. This saddle seems much harder, but it could be my faulty memory.

CONCLUSIONS
I've tried to point out concerns I've had w/ the equipment above, but the bottom line is that I am very happy w/ my choices, w/ the possible exception of the handlebar bag. I love the LHT, I don't ride anything else anymore. The road bike just collects dust at home, and I use the mtn bike as a get-around-campus bike at work. If worst comes to worst w/ the brooks, I'll just buy a new one each year. It is that good.

Here is the total list of add-ons I have right now:
Ortlieb panniers
Ortlieb handlebar bag
Jandd expedition rack
SuperFlash taillight
Cateye 1100 taillight
Fenix helmet-mount flashlight
Cane Creek "Crosstop" brake levers
Brooks B17
Road morph pump
SKS P45 fenders
Crank Bros Candy pedals


As for touring, I think all I need is:
(possibly) 48-spoke wheel
front rack/panniers
a few camping bits and pieces

well done quester great looking bike

http://www.mgagnon.net/velo/images/C...potenceAR4.jpg

Nice bike. Your handlebar bag is way up there. Why not consider adding a second stem to your LHT to mount the bag lower and free up your bar space?

Michel's site has all the info that you need.

BTW - some people have been having problems with Brooks wearing out really fast lately. It may be that your saddle has leather that is too thin and is stretching too much. If you can talk to the vendor I'd do so. They might be able to give you some advice as they probably have dealt with this issue before - you'll also be giving them a head's up for a possible warranty replacement down the road.

First let me say that I am no expert on Brooks saddles but after owning and breaking in three of them, I found the saddle to be broken in when I would start to get a little sag, it then becomes more comfortable like a hammock for my fanny. In other words, unless the saddle is uncomfortable, I'm not sure you need to be tightening it up repeatedly. I'm sure others will share their thoughts on this subject.

Hmm....very intriguing idea. The bag would fit nicely down there as long as I use an adjustable stem (needs to be angled down a small amount).

I guess two issues. First, I'd have to satisfy myself that it wouldn't look too kludgey. It's still a relatively new bike.. :-).

Second, the cross brakes I added face directly down. I'd have to face them forward. Additionally, there might be problems w/ the brake cable housing attached to the front of the stem. At worst, however, I might need to just buy a longer length of housing and a new cable.

But it would work.

I went right through that phase. It was relatively hard, and then wonderfully hammocky, and now becoming just a wee bit uncomfortable.

Your bike shouldn't have to be in friction mode. Even barend shifters should be able to handle index shifting. Index isn't that difficult to maintain or adjust and the fact that you don't need to fiddle with trying to find a gear helps a lot in group rides. Click and forget it.


It's good thing that the shop give you a lot of spacers. That way you get to decide how high you want to bars rather then depending on some kid who can still twist themselves into a pretzel and ride with the bars 12" below the saddle. Experiment with height since you have the spacers. It's dead easy to do with a bike with cantilevers. That hanger for the front brake includes a pinch bolt that holds it in place. It acts like a secondary top cap and keeps the bearings properly adjusted. That makes it easier to change the stem height and the stem itself.

The bars look like a normal 'road' bike installation. The drops are parallel with the ground (I prefer the tops to be parallel with the ground) and the brake levers don't appear to be too high. You can always move the levers down but that will require a rewrap of the bar.

For bars, I like Salsa Moto Ace Bell Lap. They are available up to 46 cm, they flare outward a little at the drops and aren't as deep a drop as most road bike bars. The ones I linked to are pretty cheap too.

For winter, use a trunk bag and free up your handlebar for lights. Performance has an adapter that will give you more space on the bar called a Space Bar. It's a great little device! You can get one from Minoura that swings upward (or downward) to accommodate a bag but I haven't heard anything good about them.

I cut the reference to the bag...and your's looks like it's tipped too high. You can adjust the Ortlieb for tilt. It all depends on how much cable you wrap around the stem. It's not that difficult to make it level. Look at again and see if you can't adjust it a little. If you've cut the cable too short, Ortlieb sells replacements.

As robow have said you don't need to tighten the saddle that much. I've been riding mine for 5 years or more and haven't adjusted it once. And I'm about your size.


48 spokes is probably overkill, as well as difficult to find and expensive:eek: Try training with a similar weight for a few weeks and see how the wheels are holding up. 36 will probably do.

Front rack and bags is definitely the way to go.

There is a difference, though I agree it might look suble. Note that my brake levers are not vertical, as they are in most pictures of LHT complete's online.

The handlebar bag is just too handy. As for the space bar, it won't help me if keep the bag.

Thanks, this does help some. It doesn't let me mount anything on the handlebars, but it does move the whole thing down an inch or so. I guess when I initially installed I just kept tightening, and this ended up making it perpendicular to the stem.


Cheers,
pete

My ortlieb bar bag is swung down about as much as yours is swung up, almost touching the brake cable. That plus a bar extender thing almost get me enough clearance for a headlight. But not quite. I think the bar bag is going away until I can rig a fork mount for my light. Or until June, when the light goes away for the summer... Either way, nice looking ride!

Good lookin' bike - but then I'm biased! Here's mine:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...T/DSCN0412.jpg

It's also a 60cm, has a black Brooks B17, and has just about exactly the same handlebar setup.

I'm 6 - 2-1/2 and about 260.....well, maybe 270 after the office Christmas party last Saturday night! Size 14 feet. But we're probably pretty close in size, and looks like our bikes are set up about the same. I use mine for road riding - no touring - so I have 700 x 28 tires on mine.

From the picture of your bike, it looks like your handlebars may be tilted too far forward. On mine, the bottom of the bars are pretty much horizontal. Not shown in the picture is a Trans It handlebar bag that I just got on sale for $30. Like your bag, it sits pretty high. It's mounted to a standoff bracket which permits me to ride with my hands on the tops of the bars. I don't think there'd be enough room for cross brakes, though.

Regarding the Brooks, my understanding is that it's supposed to develop a little bit of sag - I'd go easy on the tightening. I know that mine took about 200 miles before it started getting super-comfortable.

More to the point, look at the front of your brake levers vs the bottom of the drops, almost perfectly perpendicular.

Now look at mine, and picture how it makes grasping the levers more difficult.

Nice-looking bike...

They might be a little high but it's hard to tell. If you do it carefully, you should be able to unwrap the bars down to the lever, move the lever down a little and rewrap the bars with the same tape. This is a lot easier if the tape is a little new. If you do manage to damage the tape and need new stuff it's cheap and you can take the opportunity to put Vibewrap or gel inserts under it now.

There's a couple of ways of going. One is to add another light to your helmet. Using Fenix, you can easily mount two...or even three...to your helmet. Another option is to use a fork mount for the lamp like this one.


Or you could make up something that mounts to the fork on a reflector bracket.

Here's another adapter that might work too.

Ah, quester, I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I own a Quest and got very used to it (fine bike), but now with the tourer, I find I don't go as fast, about 1-3 mph slower, and it bugs the crap outta me! I have to get used to it I guess. It's gotta be the touring gearing and shorter crank arms because the bikes weigh within 2-3 lbs. of one another. That and the Tourlite is much more upright. My drops on the Tourlite are slightly higher than the bar tops on the Quest. It's gonna be shocking when a pair of panniers and 30 or so pounds go on it.

Cyccommute, it appears you were quite right when you told me speed was secondary—whether I like it or not. It's not that I didn't expect it—I'm just gonna have to get used to it. And, I'm sure I will, as the bike is a sweet rider.

Very good looking LHT you have there quester, with a set-up similar to where I'm headed. You from around MD?

I teach at the university of md in college park. I don't often ride w/ PPTC or other groups, but if you see a large, bearded guy in an orange jersey going up Beech drive, or the northern New Hampshire area on weekends, say hi.

If a lot of the speed difference is due to your position on the bike, you might consider using a similar position to your Quest on your touring bike. I ride with very close to the position that I use on my road bike (bars 3-4" below saddle) and like it fine. I did that for 4,244 miles and 73 consecutive days this summer and found it quite comfy even for my decrepit 56 year old body :)

I know that this goes against conventional wisdom, but it is something to consider. It isn't the answer for everyone, but possibly it could be for you.

I'll be doing this at some point, I just want to make sure that I'm synchronizing all the alterations that might damage tape, as I don't want to do it more than once.

Those are useful-looking little devices, thanks. I don't think either will work in this instance, but I'm sure I can use them elsewhere. For now, I'm going to try the second stem idea.

And let me apologize in advance for going off-topic, cyccommute, but do the battery packs you posted about wrt your retinal burners open and reseal easily, or do you have to charge in place? I already have a lacrosse charger that I can use if I get the batteries out.

Cheers,
pete

+1
If you're comfortable with lowered bars, go for it. There is a profound aerodynamic advantage in having the bars set low relative to saddle height. I actually find low bars more comfortable... takes some weight off my butt and distributes it to my arms. But everyone is different, and this might not be comfortable for you.

Another reason why your speeds might be slower is the extra wind drag from panniers. Panniers add noticeable amounts of drag whether they're loaded or not.

Thanks Staehp1. You may be on to something there as I find that I'm more comfortable in the drops on the tourer. I have yet to fine tune my position on the bike and I think I'm going to have to fool around a bit more with the stem and saddle to get optimum comfort.

I was thinking about buying a couple of these--one for my helmet and one for my handlebars--after reading all the recommendations in the lighting forum.

When I use the flashlight around camp, I'd like to turn it into a headlamp. If anyone knows of a good headband holder, let me know!

The Rocket Cage just pops open at the black plastic cover. I charge my batteries in them. I take them out and move them from bike to bike easily.

Here's what they look like open

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_0106.jpg

With the saddle tilted that far down, it's little wonder why you feel like you're doing a handstand all day - especially at 250lbs (like me). By far, the majority of 17 users find that a bit of up tilt is best - as is suggested by Brooks. If you can't find the sweet spot, try lowering the saddle about 1cm. Scoot it forward about the same, if you can. Do what you can to get the web under your ischials, so your pelvis is rotated more upright. That will relieve any pressure on the perineum.

The sagging should not be a big issue unless it results in dumping you forward onto the peak - which, in your pic, is too low in any event. Basically, you are being pushed forward by the steek frame under the rear of the saddle. Tilt it up, and get back on the web. Adjust from there and don't be shy about moving the bars to suit because it all works together.

I also agree that the honey 17's are stiffer. I now have two black and two honey. Both the honey's are about .020" thicker. Not much until you spread it around the entire hide.

Yes, I'd lowered and moved the seat forward, but not adjusted the tilt, right before this picture. Now that I'm closer to the bars, I can contemplate angling the nose up a bit. If I have the same problem as before, I'll try one of the micro-positioning seatposts.

That's one thing I forgot to suggest. Get a seat post like the Salsa Shaft or a Race Face. The Race Face has a really good adjustment mechanism.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/imgWr...A08.jpg&type=3

The Salsa is fairly easy to adjust but not as easy as the Race Face

http://www.universalcycles.com/image...arge/14985.jpg

Either would be much better than the stock post your bike has without breaking the bank.

Hey! thanks for the info on this! I was just admiring the bikes in the thread, and tumbled on exactly what I want to better position my E6 dynohub light!

Too cool!

Both of these looked very good, but after reading a bit more it seems like the Thomson is the class of the micro-adjustible pile, and only $20 more, so I got one (Elite).

This seatpost is *wonderful*. It's supposed to be totally bombproof (I'm a big guy), w/ the weight resting on the post directly, as opposed to the other posts where some of the weight is on a clamp. There is a fine adjustment dial on the side, so you can see exactly what your current angle is, and how much you move it if you do. I've been able to dial in an extremely comfortable position w/ my brooks. Purty, too.

Highly recommended.