Unreliability of Schwalbe Marathons
 

I recently finshed a 13,000km trip (www.beijingtoparis.com), in which I used the new Schwalbe Marathon HS368 40-406mm. This is the new version of the old HS308. On the schwalbe website they claim to have the same puncture protection rating as the XR.

My partner and I averaged bout one puncture about every 300km. This is several times higher than I have had on all previous touring tyres. Age, tyre pressure, road condition, temperature all made minimal difference. These tyres were just rubish.

We started with eight tyres, (four on the two bikes, plus four spares). Of those two were thrown away with broken beads, one after only 300km. All were similarly useless. :mad:

One of the editors in Australian cyclist magazine also rated schwalbe tyres as being unreliable recently, as did some (but not all) people I met along the way.

I would be interested to hear if others are having the same problem. Especially if it has got worse lately with their move to indonesia.

I will be changing to continental tour contacts from now on, though I previously had trouble with their side-walls.

Olly
--
www.ollypowell.wordpress.com

Hs368
 

I just completed a 3150 mile tour on 700X32 Marathons. I got 4 flat tires, three from goatheads and one from a broken beer bottle. I was satisfied with the tires and I made it the whole trip on the original two tires. That said, my buddy was using Specialized Armadillo's and only had one flat tire.

In 2007, I bicycled 13000km across Russia (www.bikerussia.com). I left Amsterdam with new 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires on both front and rear. The front tire went all the way across as well as through China (2500km). The rear tire was replaced with a Schwalbe Marathon XR tire after 6000km. That replacement tire was just starting to tear when I reached Vladivostok. I had one flat during the entire trip. Overall I was very pleased with the tires and interesting to see somewhat opposite experiences.

I used Continental Top touring tires before including a 19000km ride around Australia. They were reasonable tires, though didn't last as long as the Schwalbe Marathon tires and I also occasionally had sidewall rips.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

I purchased the exact same series early this summer to tour on in the 26 X 1.5 ". Now mind you I didn't put nearly that many miles on them but then they went on my daughters commuting bike at college. I had no problems but then the Katy Trail wasn't a real tough test for them either. No flats, but I can't say the ride is any better than the older series as they suggested.

Just curious why you didn't go with the Marathon XRs? They are a more robust touring tire than the standard Marathons.

I've been using Schawalbe Marathon Plus tires for a couple of years now and never had a problem, I wore out my rear tire after about 12000kms without a flat. I put on the new tire up front for beter traction and the (old) front tire is still going strong (nearly 15000kms).
I don't know much about other tires but with this record there is no way I'll be changing soon :)
Well maybe to the XR's.

I don't know about the XR's but I have 9000 miles not kilometers on a set of Marathon Pluses 700x32's including a Southern Route this year without a single flat. Just lucky, but I made sure that they were pumped up each day. Ran over a lot of glass and rough roads. I have them on both of my tandems and my other touring bike. They are heavey and a real pain to change on the rims I have Mavic 217's. I ran Conti Top Tour's before which are a good tire, but they defintely changed when they went overseas and were no longer made in Germany. Just a question for the first poster what weight were you carrying? I try to keep my load below 50lbs and a lot less if possible, but water adds up - but I tour with guys who carry what seems like impossible loads at times.

My XR finally blew its sidewall after 7,500 miles. No flats. I'm trying out the Supreme since its lighter. Still expecting few to no flats, but less mileage.

Thanks all,
It seems pretty clear that this is a production control issue at Schwalbe, not a consistent problem. Though I suspect the new tread is more prone to collecting bits in it. Some of our own team members went all the way with only one or two punctures with XR's (compared with more than twenty each for my partner and I). Others acheived the same thing with different brands, as is my own past experience, with both Schwalbe's and others.

Still if I can't rely on them to work every time I'm not going to use them. We risk getting stuck under the sun with temperatures in the 40's down here. (As it was in China and central asia)

Just to be clear, these were the regular marathons, not the plus or the XR. The XR seems to have similar puncture protection system though. The plus has a heavy lump of plastic in it, which increases rolling resistance and weight.

We did not use XR's because of the slow tread pattern, excessive width and low pressure rating. We were riding full suspension recumbents so no need for soft wide tyres. In any case they are not available in 406mm ERD.

The problem went away with tyre liners after I reached Germany, but this is no good for record attempts, solar racing etc, here in Australia.

Cheers

Olly

Actually the Schwalbe website states that the Marathon HS368 has less puncture protection than the XR.


http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires

This would appear to be true, however I believe a year ago they only gave four stars to the XR the same for the regular marathon. Though I could be mistaken.

Still, giving four stars out of five to a tyre that punctures every few hundred km, and falls to bits is a bit misleading in my opinion. I would have used the marathon plus, or continentals if they had been more honest with their rating system, or pointed out that the tyres were worse than their old 308's (which they do recommend only for city use).

OP, you rode a fully suspended recumbent and you are complaining about getting flats on a tire not designed for expedition use? I would have thought that your tires would have been the least of your breakdown problems. Schwalbe's mistake is to label a wide range of tires "Marathon" - everything from an economy model to the XR which is truely an amazing bit of engineering. Schwalbe runs out of superlatives when describing their tires so they begin to repeat themselves and confuse everybody. Not such great marketing, but a wonderful tire (plus, XR, and, hopefully, the new Supreme).

We started with the same "original" Marathon and had similar (though not as bad) experiences as you.

Once we switched (to the XR and Plus) results changed considerably.

I actually was quite impressed with my old marathon 308's. In fact they are coming up to 10,000km on my regular touring bike with only a couple of punctures as far as I can remember. No problems with the 308's on my partner's old recumbent. My trike made it from Adelaide to Allice springs with two punctures on schwalbe big apples. So I reasoned that a couple of extra punctures would beat having heavy tractor-like marathon plusses.

What made me so frustrated is that after testing these schwalbes so extensively, with reasonable results, their new model marathon was so bad.

I would like to try these Armadillo's that Supertick mentioned, but they seem to be unavalable in 406mm, as usual.

In answer to Vosyer, bike +panniers 15kg, gear 10kg + up to 10kg water, myself 85kg. I designed the bike and panniers myself, to put more weight on the rear wheel than the front (sometimes it is the other way around for SWB recumbents) The rear did puncture more than the front, so weight may have been a factor. Here are some more details for the curious: http://ollypowell.wordpress.com/about-the-bike/

Thanks all.

The Marathon Pluses aren't nearly as 'tractor like' as you seem to think, they actually roll quite nicely considering the protection they offer.

That is an impressive journey and bikes...amazing! Back on topic, I am curious if you think the Schwalbes are better than comparable Continental Tires.

The continentals were better for puncture protgection than the (old) regular marathon 308's, I had only one puncture after 5000km with my tour contacts, and there was loads of rubber left. That trip was across SE Asia, Central China and Xinjiang with all kinds of road surfaces. I like the slick tread much better too, fast and bits don't get stuck in it. The only problem was with the side walls. From memory this wasn't the best of the tour contacts. Also, this was before I discovered pressure guages, so I was probably running them below spec.

Continental were claiming their walls have improved recently. Can anybody varify this? I'm fairly keen to use them for a "rogue entry" to the Darwin-Adelaide solar challenge (car race) in two years.

Thanks

Olly

Sounds like you have the experience. I runt he Marathon slicks, and don't expect too much from them. I was more under the impresion that 5000 miles was the limit on most touring tires, not to say one won't get more, but whatever the service limit is, it isn't going to lead to good comparisons if the trip exceeds the tire's actual planed life. Anyone know what that design life is expected to be? Is there an industry norm.

It's also almost impossible to compare terrain. Just composion of the road surface or surface treatments, the use of glass, can lead to completely different results. I've never travelled those desert areas with thorns, but I doubt the experience is comparable to my stomping grounds. One instance where the more widely travelled one is, the less comparable the results.

after several thousand miles of gravel/dirt roads on my XR's I got the XR Evolutions, 26x2.1. These have done 5000 miles across Australia, including a few hundred miles of unsealed and a few off road MTB trails.
The P*&^ture fairy has not visited once and the tyres roll very well. I hit 50 mph coming down into Holbart in Tasmania.

Nothing but praise for them, from me.

george

very impressive!
on the website of the uber ride, the front page summary of the how the trip went, made me cringe to hear all of the horrible things that happened to everyone!! robberies at knife point, being hit by trucks, head surgery, eeeeek! riding cross the U.S. twice without any dangerous experiences of the sort has made me a bit naive about how dangerous bike camping can be!

I cycled from Birmingham (UK) to Bilbao (Spain) 1000 miles with marathons last summer and didn’t have one puncture. Must admit I was impressed but will be using the marathon plus tyres on my upcoming trip to Greece

They roll OK, considering. They do weigh a TON though! I like mine but consider the weight penalty to be pretty substantial.

They do weigh a lot, they aren't much fun to mount either. But I've had one on the rear of one of my bikes for over a year without a flat. That's getting close to 3000 miles.

I do have one marathon plus. It was bought in desperation in Germany, after another of the 368's broke (snapped bead). I thought it was a bit slow and noisy, and heavy. It has had one puncture so far, but this was a thorn through the sidewall, here in Australia.

Most of my riding is on a faired recumbent. For me rolling resistance is comparitively more important, due to our low aerodynamic drag coefficients and small frontal cross sections. I average about 30km/h around town.

Looking at the Continental website, I notice there is no longer a "tour contact", it became the "travel contact" which looks the same but does not come in 406mm (20 inch). Ditto for the Schwalbe Supreme (and XR and specialised armadillo). So for now I am stuck with the regular Continental "contact" vs marathon plus. I'll give this regular "contact" a try.

Olly

The 700 x 40 XR is rated to 85 PSI. I don't know of any other tire that wide w/ a higher rating. The travel contact 37 goes up to 100, but at 40?