BikEthan

First off. This is a very long post, if this is bad etiquette please let me know.

I've ridden bikes a lot but not on tour. I'm 6' 2" 235 lbs with long legs a short torso and longish arms. I need a big, strong bike (I once snapped a seat tube at the BB while pedaling up a hill). I'm planning on doing a tour of some portion of Europe in the summer of '09 with a friend who moved there last year. I will do a shorter tour this summer to get the kinks worked out and gain a clue as to what I'm doing.

I went to Harris Cyclery in West Newton Massachusetts and they had two very different and very good options; the Surly LHT and the Rivendell Atlantis. They didn't have the LHT in my size but they're ordering one for me to test ride. I had a Surly steamroller (SS with front and rear brakes, I'm not crazy... at least not that way) that I rode for a few years and I really liked it, so I have a feeling I'll like the LHT. I know I'm looking at about a 2K price difference. So the first question is, is the Atlantis worth it? I've probably just opened a big can of worms but that's OK.

I've heard good things about the Trek 520 but no direct experience, I'll see if I can find one to test ride in the Boston area.

If I'm willing to spend the money on an Atlantis I could just buy a custom bike instead. The custom builder I'm most interested in is A.N.T. but I'd have to wait around a year (at least) which means I'd be trying to find a used touring bike for next year. I'm also interested in checking out Circle A Cycles in Providence R.I. but I haven't heard much about them. If anyone has had personal experience with either of these builders especially regarding a touring bike I'd love to hear about it.

I'm considering a custom bike because I'm no where near average in size or proportions and fitting a bike can be... interesting. A custom bike might be overkill for my first tour but I also know I'll be getting a lot of use out of it when I get back to the States. I'll probably do more touring and the bike will probably also be used for a lot of riding in general and utilitarian cycling/commuting.

I'm a little concerned about a high end bike getting beaten up on the way to and from Europe and on whatever transit we take that might not involve being on the bike (although I'm not a huge fan of the color of the Atlantis and wouldn't mind the excuse to get it repainted if I go that route). For those of you who have toured Europe is the bike likely to get beat up? Did this vary by the individual person or service handling the bike, by region? I don't know our route yet, this factor may influence how we travel.

Some specific questions: Threadless vs. Threaded on tour in Europe? I'm guessing it's going to come down to personal preference since I probably won't have any trouble finding threadless parts in Western Europe. Part of me wants to put a threadless HS on a Rivendell bike although that may be sacrilegious and I'd have to order a new fork and that would just be goofy.

Frame, lugged vs. TIG? I hear lugged is easier to repair from shops that build lugged bikes, I hear TIG is just as easy to repair from shops that weld their bikes... shwa? Anyone notice a difference in riding characteristics?

If anyone who's ridden more than one of these bikes could comment on the riding characteristics/feel, that would be great. One of the big reasons I ask this question is because the guy at the shop said that the Atlantis felt "livelier" than the LHT unloaded (I like the idea of this especially given that I may be doing a lot of unloaded riding when I get back from my tour). I will of course be testing out the LHT but I like to get as much information as possible especially from people with experience beyond a test ride.

Are there any other bikes I should be considering? I've been lurking on the boards for a while and I've read a bit about some other bikes, 2 that come to mind are the DeVinchi Caribou and the Rocky Mountain Sherpa (which will likely be hard to get a hold of and might not come in a size truly big enough for me anyway).

Beyond that if anyone has any thoughts? Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Feel free.

Thanks to those who slogged through this post and especially to those who respond!

cyccommute 

You could easily make up that 2K difference with the proper component selection The Surly Complete is a good bargain but it's also a pretty low parts spec.

By their nature, touring bikes get beat up. It's a sign of their vagabond status. Nicks, scratches, dents and wear are signs of a bike used for what it is designed for. Wear them proudly!

Threadless is just plain easier. It's to bicycling what PVC is to plumbing...any idiot with a hacksaw can do plumbing now Same holds with threadless. Just cut the steer tube a little longer than you think you'll need, in case you want adjustment.

Style differences only. Either is fine, lugs look prettier. Repairs are generally unlikely anyway.

Your size isn't that abnormal. The other touring bike you might want to look at is the Cannondale T2. About midway between the LHT and the Atlantis in terms of cost. The Cannondale, as a touring bike, is equal to the LHT in geometry and ability. For large guys with heavy loads, the bike is a dream. Stiff enough to climb standing out of the saddle with 50 lbs of touring gear but smooth enough (with a load) to ride all day. A little harsh unloaded but you get used to it. I think the T2 is a better bike then the T1.

raybo

I'm not sure how my experience will relate to yours, however, several years ago I decided to buy a dedicated touring bike. As I was flush at the time, I decided that cost would not deter me from getting the best bike I could buy. I checked out several makes on the internet, including Rivendale. Their bikes seemed good (and expensive) but the 1 year backlog was too much for me.

In my research, I had come across Waterford bicycles and liked the fact that they had a "semi-custom" touring bike as part of their product line. While they were still quite expensive, I checked one out at a local bike store. I liked both the store and the bike and bought one.

Since then, I have had no reason to doubt my choice. It is the only bike I ride, unless I am going to the store, in which case I use an old hybrid that I don't care about, should it be stolen. I really like the bike and can highly recommend both the bike and the manufacturer, who seem like a class act.

In addition, for other questions that you have, I'd like to recommend that you check out www.biketouringtips.com, which has hundreds of links to bike touring information from all over the world and on all kinds of topics.

Ray

Speedo

You might think about Co-Motion. They make the heavy duty Americano and the lighter duty Nor'Wester. Belmont Wheel Works is a Co-Motion distributor. I may be cutting my own throat here, but Dedham Bike is a Rocky Mountain distributor. When I contacted them they told me that they might be getting some Sherpa 30's in the spring. The Bikeway Source in Bedford is a Marinoni distributor, they have a nice touring model.

If you are thinking of custom or building from scratch, you should also seriously condider Bilenky, Bob Jackson, and my personal favorite for beautiful lugged frames, Mercian.

Good luck!
Speedo

mev

I am 6' 5" and 230 lbs after loosing some weight after my last 10 months of touring. So more before . Below I'll briefly describe my experiences with several different touring bikes over a fair amount of touring.

However, before doing that a quick thought based on the following excerpts from your posting:

Once you gain some more touring miles, you'll probably have some good sense of what works best for you. You've got some time before your 2009 summer particularly if you could fit in a mini-tour in summer '08 and another in the fall. So there might be some benefit to doing an interim or less costly solution first (e.g. converting an existing bike, borrowing/adapting one that fits or buying second-hand) before putting down major $$ on something to decide later it wasn't the right choice.

Now thoughts based on my own experience (www.fietstocht.com summarizes major trips I've done):

• Overall: There are some common modifications to make on any bike for your weight and for touring. For me, these include wheels, saddle and racks. I've had mixed results with fenders.
• Cannondale T1000/T2000: I like the stiffness of the ride and generally had good experiences riding two different Cannondale bikes. I had a bad experience with a frame cracking. That might be unique.
• Custom bike: There are good builders and not so good builders out there. Unfortunately my one experience was spending a lot on a lemon that wasn't done in time for my tour. Hence, check references of the builder as well as checking the bike.
• Trek 520: My most recent bike. It rides less well than my Cannondale, but I didn't have major issues (after replacing components) on recent long tour.

RalphP

My bias is that I am an Atlantis owner. I bought the bike for touring but so far have only used it for my weekly day-ride. (1) If you have, or feel that you have, unusual body proportions and have experienced discomfort on a bicycle for this reason, then I would think that a custom bike would be the way to go. It would make sense to have a bike that was made for your particular body. Personally, I can't think of any other reason why a custom bike would, prima facie, be a better choice. (2) The Atlantis has relatively thick tubes and so, at least unloaded, it is stiffer than my other bike. No big deal to me but, imo, the great advantage of thin-walled touring frames is that they can be exquisitely comfortable. But maybe a bit squirrelly under load, no? (3) I do not accept the idea that a re-entry bicyclist, or any bicyclist, should buy an inexpensive bike in order to discover that he or she doesn't like inexpensive bikes. I say, choose your bicycle very carefully, wait six months or a year for it if you must, and be prepared to spend absolutely as much as you can afford. After a few months, the price is forgotten but the bike will be yours for twenty-five years or more. (4) I've never owned a threadless HS and cannot see why anyone would prefer not to have infinite adjustability on such an important aspect of their bike fit. I am prepared to learn from others on that score. (5) I flew my Jack Taylor to Europe and back and, on another occasion, on a small plane out of St. Anthony, Newfoundland, and stuck it on many trains and ferries. I deeply loved the bike and would have grieved over any nick or scratch but it never happened. If I have the opportunity to go to distant shores again, I would seriously consider using a shipping company, UPS, DHL or something. Otherwise, I am grateful for the special care British Airways seemed to show my bike and I would use them again. (6) Of course, I think the Atlantis is an incredibly great and wonderful phenomenon.

The Smokester

Maybe one option is to buy a cheaper bike like the Surly LHT and ride it for a while to get a feeling for how a good touring bike feels. If you are dealing with Harris then they will put you into such a bike with good fit and appropriate components. If you build it up from the frame (like I did) you can get upgraded components which you then have the option to switch them over to a new, high zoot, custom frame once you know what you like.

Regarding the traveling and shipping: Whatever bike you get, if it is steel you will be able to put SS couplers on it and that will allow you to separate the bike's frame into two pieces and pack it into a standard 26" suitcase that can be check on airlines at no extra charge. (Hopefully your bike will not be too big (< 64 cm) for this trick.) There is no strength and little weight penalty (8 oz) for this.

foamy

To the OP, whatever bicycle you buy, you will come to love (hopefully). Sure, you might upgrade and/or change some parts and you'll learn and grow used to the bike's virtues and short-comings. If you don't, after a time, end up loving the bugger, then you'll know it's time to sell it. For my part, I've never owned and ridden a bike that I didn't think was just the greatest thing.

Just say'in: Let logic and reason narrow your choices, but buy with your heart. The bike is either "it," or it's not.

2ering

[QUOTE=Speedo;5972909]You might think about Co-Motion. They make the heavy duty Americano and the lighter duty Nor'Wester. Belmont Wheel Works is a Co-Motion distributor. I may be cutting my own throat here, but Dedham Bike is a Rocky Mountain distributor. When I contacted them they told me that they might be getting some Sherpa 30's in the spring. The Bikeway Source in Bedford is a Marinoni distributor, they have a nice touring model.

+1 on Co-Motion. They are a semi-custom manufacturer and will tweak angles/tube lengths based on your physical makeup. The Americano uses their tandem tubing and has a 145mm spread betweem the rear drop-outs which allows them to build a completely dishless rear wheel.

They also make a stouter bike called the Mazama which they target at folks 250+ lbs, so a bit larger than you. That bike has XT front & rear derailleurs, an 11-34 cassette and disc brakes but also, unfortunately, an Ultegra triple crank which would probably need to be switched out so you can substitute a <24 tooth chainring. All bikes can be built with the S&S couplers as well. Lastly they're great to work with.

BikEthan

I've owned a few Cannondales over the years (I used to work at a shop that carried them) and I still have one of their mountain bikes (which I literally haven't ridden in years, shame). I'm leaning towards steel due to ease of repair and the slightly less harsh ride. But you bring up a good point and I will definitely check out the T2. From looking at the parts spec on Cannondale's website I would have to agree with you the T2 is definitely more geared (HA!) towards loaded touring.

Great input. Thanks!

BikEthan

I read the thread where you were looking for a Sherpa. I'd feel like a twit if I bought that bike out from under you! What size touring bike do you take anyway?

late

Another vote for Waterford... they will build the bike to fit, and at a reasonable price. You can save some money getting Tiagra or 105 level components. You can save some more by getting some of it on Ebay.

Waterford has many options, but since money is a concern, just get a TIG frame without the fancy paint job.

You could also ask them for a frame that was a blend of their touring and sport models. Their touring bike is called the Adventure and it's a real tank. It is intended to cross continents. Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you want a bike that will be a little lively when not loaded. They can take a Road Sport, beef up a couple areas, add a millimeter or two to the chainstays, and you will have a bike that can tour and feel fun when just riding.

Speedo

Don't worry about it. All's fair in the search for the perfect bicycle. I probably need a 58, but even a 58 might be too small.

Speedo

BikEthan

Herm... yeah I'm looking at the geometry on the 07 models and the 58 looks small even for a 58. TT length is 570mm whereas the LHT has a 586mm TT on their 58. I think we may be in the same boat when it comes to the Sherpa...

BikEthan

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'll let you know what I choose to do (or maybe just ask a bunch more questions in the near future).

nun

You can't go wrong if you put yourself in the hands of Harris. I'd strongly recommend an Atlantis or a Rambouillet for touring. They look good and ride better. If you go the custom route I can recommend Circle A. They are a good small shop, their frames are quite modern in style, and they do a fine job. My frame was the first non-fastback they had done. Be prepared to wait a year to get your bike

BikEthan

As stated earlier I'm 6'2", 235 lbs. I have a 37" pubic bone height.

I have now test ridden a 64 and 66cm Atlantis, a 25" (63.5cm) Trek 520, and a 62cm LHT. Sadly Wheelworks doesn't carry the Cannondale touring bikes. I'm going to check around and see if there is a shop in the area that does as I'd like to at least test ride it.

The 66cm Atlantis felt like it was made for me right off the bat. I was sliding off the seat towards the front slightly but I know this is a product of saddle adjustment more than anything so I'm not worried about it. Otherwise the only gripe with the 66 is that I was hitting my legs on the top tube when climbing out of the saddle, I doubt I'll be whipping the bike around like that when fully loaded so in the long run it probably won't be an issue... I hope. The 64 felt good but not quite as good as the 66 can't quantify why, it just did.

The Trek 520 felt second best. It felt faster, and little more like a racing bike but still pretty upright. The parts leave something to be desired and I've heard rumor that this bike can get flexy under load.

The LHT felt the worst of the 3. I was too stretched out initially so I asked the shop to put a shorter higher rise stem on it. This helped a lot but it definitely felt a little weird. This is odd to me as the 62cm LHT and the 66cm Atlantis have the same TT length. But there are always additional factors.

If cost was no issue there wouldn't even be a question as to which bike I would buy... I may just bite the bullet and go for the Atlantis anyway as I'd hate to get out on a tour and discover that I hate the bike I'm riding. Plus, I'm young yet so I should be able to get plenty of years out of the Atlantis.