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What would you do?

Old 03-13-08, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cptpitt22 View Post
The park has been set up for you as an adventurer, and you are using it as a safe shelter. You will likely use their bathroom, roads, etc. Yet you wonít pay for stealth camping?

My point: Stealth camping can be considered stealing, too, in the right circumstances, and the same excuses/arguments can apply.
With stealth camping, you select a location without facilities ... like an empty part of the woods (outside a National Park), and without "No tresspassing" and "No camping" signs. All you are using is the piece of land on which to set your tent, and when you remove it, there should be no indication that you were ever there.
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Old 03-13-08, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by IronMac
I still stand firm that one should pay for what one uses. That is why the park in this scenario charges different rates for different services regardless of what the park ranger said. I think he's wrong unless he was in on the original meeting determining the services and rates.

While some situations allow or encourage haggling, this is not one of them. The park charges $18 for that spot that you've occupied. Is there a meter on the outlet? Are you going to video-tape your activities to prove you didn't use the outlet?

What you are missing is: in this scenario, the campground is somewhat crowded. I.e. demand is high, space is at a premium, ergo you are paying more because other people a) reserved in advance, b) got there before you, and c) took the cheaper sites first. You snooze, you lose.

Originally Posted by IronMac
If you want to talk about the honor system, how many of us have trespassed onto private property, spent the night and then sneaked off in the morning? Sounds honorable to me!
If the property is posted, then there is not a single thing that is honorable about trespassing.

If the property is not posted and you are in an area where camping without explicit permission is either permitted or acceptable, then your actions are perfectly legit. But not really "honorable." More like, "good-natured and cheap."

Originally Posted by IronMac
Campgrounds have differing levels of service and, therefore, they charge differing levels of prices. One should not charge someone just for the "privilege" or access to services that they will not be using.
It's their site. They manage it, they maintain it. They set the price. If you do not like their price, go somewhere else. If no other place is available, you're stuck. Period.

Not all pricing models are based on a "per unit" or "per usage" scenario. I suggest you get used to it.

Originally Posted by IronMac
Let's twist this scenario around. Same scenario as posited, he's not going to use the outlet unless he wants to kill himself, no other spots available, and no other clientele coming in after him. If you were the campground owner and you were there when the OP showed up would you ask him to pay full price? I'd say that there's nothing fair, reasonable or honorable in doing so.
It's quite fair, reasonable and honorable.

As the owner, am I really supposed to refund everyone who claims "I didn't use the outlet?" How about "I only used the outlet for 10 minutes. I swear!" How about "I didn't use the washroom" or "I got here at 9:00 PM and will leave at 6AM, why should I pay the same amount as someone who got here at 6PM and left at 10AM?"

People like that are a big fat pain in the twees. Many times, the "bargain hunter" guy who wants to pay the least is also the most demanding, stubborn, dissatisfied and downright unpleasant to deal with. Try running a business one of these days, and you will quickly learn to see the disadvantages to discounting your services every 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by cptpitt22 View Post
I am always surprised at how many people take discussions like this personally. Everyone has his/her opinion, and is entitled to it....
What's the phrase.... "The battles are so fierce because the stakes are so low."

Originally Posted by cptpitt
Iím doing a 12 week tour, so run some math with me. If it happens once a week: $72. Twice a week: $144. Three times? $216. Maybe not for you, thatís a lot of money for me.... For those of us who worked a part-time job as they went to college this is a lot of money.... Not only do I have to save money to pay rent while I am gone, I also have to think about saving money for camping fees!?
12 weeks is a heck of a long tour. I hope if you do a tour that long, you have more than $200 set aside for various contingencies.

And while I enjoy haggling (in contexts where it is normal and/or accepted), there's a point at which pinching every penny just ruins traveling for me. When I travel, the last thing I want is to feel any sort of emotional distress because (shudder gasp) I'm spending $12 more a week on lodging than I initially budgeted. Total buzzkill, IMO.

Originally Posted by cptpitt
Right now, though, I really donít have the money. Will I pay anyway? Probably. Will it hurt? Yes. Am I borrowing a lot of money for this trip. You bet.
Keeping in mind that your finances are your own business, and it's much better to have this kind of adventure now, as it will be harder to pull away from responsibilities as you get older:

Avoid debt by any means possible. Seriously. Debt, especially consumer / credit card debt, is like carrying an anvil in your back pocket, and a accruing it is a bad habit to get into.

I'd rather spend less time on the road, have all the cash I need for the trip, and not have to worry about small costs than spend more time on the road, accrue a big debt and penny-pinch the whole time....
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Old 03-13-08, 08:26 PM
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honour system at a state park? Hmmm let me think. How about $0
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Old 03-13-08, 08:46 PM
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I'd pay the $18 if I was in that space.
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
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Old 03-13-08, 11:13 PM
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Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts's my list of best five solutions...In order:

1. Share another spot: Saves money, doesn't rob the camp of their site, and makes friends!
2. Use the site, pay the full fee.
3. Use the site, pay the $12.
4. Leave the campsite and stealth it nearby - you'll likely still be on park property and using their amenities, but you won't be clogging a site. (If you can easily get off of park property and camp there...this can be bumped to #2 or #3 depending on how much you love to stealth.)
5. Use the site without paying.

A few notes:
a) The statement that someone who wants to skimp the $6 shouldn't bother to pay at all because stealing is stealing... is absurd. Something is better than nothing! The people in charge do not care about idealism - they care about paying the park staff, the electricity bill, etc.
b) I know what stealth camping is, but in this situation the person has already arrived at their destination in the park. So, unless they get back on their bike and continue onward, their stealth camp is likely going to be on park grounds.

"When I travel, the last thing I want is to feel any sort of emotional distress because (shudder gasp) I'm spending $12 more a week on lodging than I initially budgeted. Total buzzkill, IMO." -Baccia

Again, so glad that it isn't a big deal for you, but it is for some people. My situation isn't that bad, but my point is that some people really honestly cannot afford it. Yes it is certainly a buzzkill, and yes it is a pain in the you-know-where, but should that person just stop their trip? Consider yourself lucky that it isn't an issue for you, and please drop the 'shudder gasp' condescending tone.

On the other hand, Baccia, thanks for the comments regarding penny pinching and touring. Yes, it is a heck of a tour, and yes, I believe that I have enough money prepared for my adventure. As for the loans, they are all 'personal loans' within the family. No interest, no banks, no future credit checks, no reimbursement timeline. Call it the HONOR CODE. My father has also given me an emergency credit card linked to his account should I run into trouble (in the form of $18 campsites). Like the 'loans', this is money that I'll need to pay back, but it will help ease any 'buzzkills' I might encounter.

So, to answer the original post...That is what I've done.

Last edited by cptpitt22; 03-13-08 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 03-13-08, 11:53 PM
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Baccia, I don't necessarily agree with all you say, but in your last post, I agree with everything.
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