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BRUCE GORDON and his bicycles: Impressions...

Old 11-10-03, 09:39 PM
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BRUCE GORDON and his bicycles: Impressions...

Hey touring zealots,

I'm probably going to buy a touring bike next and have tentatively narrowed it down to a Bruce Gordon BLT or Trek 520 [I was also considering an Airborne Carpe Diem, but after some research and decided I want more of a true touring bike (that doesn't cost $2500!).

Currently, I'm leaning towards the BLT because it seems like a better bike overall and won't need any modifications (unlike the 520, which needs the front crank replaced at a minimum) and I'd rather support a small, independent manufacturer than a huge corporation . In doing research on Bruce Gordon, I've found him to be a polarizing figure: People either really like him, or can't stand him (even those who don't like dealing with him seem to acknowledge that he make a quality product).

So basically I'm just looking for feedback about Bruce Gordon's bicycles and dealing with the man himself. I'd like to hear both positive and negative feedback. All coherent input is appreciated.
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Old 11-11-03, 04:49 AM
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I have heard he can be a headcase with definate views on what a touring bike should be and its either accept his views and the bike built his way or the highway.So its not really a custom bike in the sense you have any input.There was a recent review on crazyguyonabike in one of the journals where the writer liked the quality of the bike but had real problems dealing with the owner I will try to find and link it.
By the way I think the new 520 has addressed the low gearing issue.
Here is the link to the review I mentioned above: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journ.../?page_id=6642

Last edited by RWTD; 11-11-03 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 11-11-03, 07:41 AM
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"I've found him to be a polarizing figure"

i.e. that means you haven't dealt with him yet... call him up and put forth some opinions about what YOU want on YOUR bike and be prepared to have your head taken off if-by chance-they aren't also what BG wants.

You'll be lining up at your local Trek dealership in about 2 seconds...

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Old 11-11-03, 08:20 AM
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Hi,
I would suggest you look closely at other small companies. Since Rivendell was mentioned above, let's talk about them.
While they describe the Romulus as an all around bike suitable for light touring; they make very rugged bikes. It would be fine.
There really should be more choices between $1K and $2K. i don't really know a thing about this one, but I was doing a search and found it... https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/koga/index.html Harris Cyclery is a very good bike shop. Also take a look at the Heron which can be seen at the Harris site.
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Old 11-11-03, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by late
Hi,
I would suggest you look closely at other small companies. Since Rivendell was mentioned above, let's talk about them.
While they describe the Romulus as an all around bike suitable for light touring; they make very rugged bikes. It would be fine.
There really should be more choices between $1K and $2K. i don't really know a thing about this one, but I was doing a search and found it... https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/koga/index.html Harris Cyclery is a very good bike shop. Also take a look at the Heron which can be seen at the Harris site.
Not to mention that for fully loaded touring Rivendell makes the Atlantis which is suitable for off road style "adventure touring", fully loaded tours, punishing commutes and all around general purpose use. It looks like the Rivendell price increase they been talking about has kicked in but you should be able to get a suitably equipped Atlantis for ~US$2500. I personally really am in agreement with the Rivendell philosophy, and also am a big support of small manufacturers that handcraft small batches in high quality. Hopefully I'll be doing a major tour in a year or so and that it'll be on an Atlantis.
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Old 11-12-03, 10:10 PM
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Thanks for the input everyone. After what I've read, I definitely have second thoughts about dealing Gordon. I'm not sure I want to deal with anyone that set in their ways/opinions. Thanks, RWTD for that great article. After all I've read, it now seems the 520 is probably a better value. The 520 is about $1050 (it went up a little this year) ready-to-ride. After shipping and assembly, the BLT will be at least $1700. The BLT is little better, but I don't think it's $700 better (in terms of reliability, the BLT is only marginally better, if at all). Thanks for your help.
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Old 11-12-03, 10:35 PM
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A good thread.

I went through the BLT vs. 520 decision over a year ago.

It was a tough call.

I'll tell you, the 520 needs more than new front gearing. You should really have the LBS do extra work on the wheels. You should have them build you some wheels replacing the stock spokes with Wheelsmith or LT (is that the other brand?) My stock spokes started popping like matchsticks within a year.

I had to make a frame warranty claim on the 520, too, when it cracked near the bottom bracket. I wouldn't let this fact worry you a lot, though. The 520's a tested frame with a good reputation.

The 26" wheel option on the BLT's nothing to sneeze at either.

I know BG says you should pay your LBS $300 to build your bike when it arrives, but that's hardly set in stone. Mine was willing to do it for just a bit over $100, and that was the shop that was also trying to sell me the 520 (which I eventually bought).

I also had the stock rims replaced on the 520 with Mavic Touring, but I don't know that you need to do that.

My LBS switched the 105 gearing out for LX for free; if they had charged, say, $100 for that I probably would have gotten the BLT.

I got the 520, and I'm happy with it, but the BLT's a good bike. I'd look at it closely if I were you. Who cares what you think about BG himself, anyway? The BLT's not a custom bike. That's why it's ~$1,500 and competes with the 520. So what do you really have to argue with the guy about? If you like the bike, just choose your size and buy the thing.

There are a couple of threads from summer '02 comparing the 520 to the BLT here. Have a look at those.
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Old 11-13-03, 01:35 AM
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Speaking of frame warrenty claims anyone ask BG what type of warrenties he provides.Something tells me I would hate to hear the answer to that one lol.
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Old 11-13-03, 02:17 AM
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Like the look of the Atlantis, probably because it looks like a traditional European Tourer. Frame geometry looks like my tourer/commuter.
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Old 11-13-03, 12:13 PM
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Wheelsmith or LT (is that the other brand?)
Most likely DT Swiss or just DT for short. I think LT is an ex Linebacker for the NY Giants.

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Old 11-17-03, 11:21 PM
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If you plan on doing any riding while carrying alot of weight on any modern bike I would have the stock spokes taken out and replaced. Usually stock spokes are cheap black coated ones, they aren't properly tempered and the coating wears around the hub causing the spokes to break like matchsticks as someone pointed out. I would replace the spokes with quality DT stainless spokes, new nipples, etc, cost about $20/wheel or cheaper. I usually do it myself because I like building wheels and then I know I can trust them. If you don't know how to build wheels, get a book about it, read through it, then give it a shot, it's quite easy and you can't wreck a whole lot if you screw something up.
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Old 11-18-03, 12:43 PM
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What exactly is wrong with the BG bike, apart from a grouchy builder. They seem to be correctly specced and expedition worthy, straight out of the box. The only downside I can see is that they are a little too heavy-duty for unladen club rides, but they are built as exp, not club touring bikes.
The Trek 520 is potentially a good touring bike, if you replace the chainset, wheels, rack....
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Old 11-18-03, 02:07 PM
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Bruce Gordon review

Hi, I wrote the review referenced previously on the Bruce Gordon Rock N Road tour, and I guess I just wanted to make clear that I think Bruce does make very good touring bikes. The problems I have had with him were mostly related to the fact that he didn't seem all that keen to help me fix the problems I had with the bike after my first tour, without charging me more money... but this whole subject is quite contentious and very subjective, because it was a few months after the sale. Having said that, I still believe it would have been better for him to have helped out the customer and take the trouble to make the bike work - but that's a matter of personal opinion.

Having said that, I want to emphasize that this is a very solid, good touring bike. Many people buy Bruce Gordon bikes and never have any problems - and they swear by them. Once again: He builds excellent touring bikes. But you should just be aware (which was the point of the review) of Bruce's "quirks" in terms of his strong opinions on how a bike should be. I think that if you go into the deal with open eyes and fully aware of all the possibilities, then he is quite happy to spend hours on the phone with you arguing over this or that aspect.

To tell you the truth, if I had to choose between Bruce and some huge faceless corporation that has no soul but lets you return stuff six months later with no questions asked, I would choose Bruce in an instant. Not because I particularly like the guy (but he's not all that bad), but because he really is something of a rarity these days - someone doing what he believes in, and does it very well - albeit with something of an attitude that grates on some people. So I disagree with some of his opinions, and I think he should have helped me more after the fact, yes, but in the end I still have a lot of respect for the guy and would recommend him to anyone wanting a touring bike. Just read my review, and understand what I'm saying there. I'm not out to trash Bruce Gordon and his business, but I WILL say what I think... sorry if it's not all nice and black and white, but that's just the way it goes I'm afraid!

The bike is much nicer now that I've replaced the stem and handlebars. Take a look at the final couple of updates in the journal for more on that:

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journ.../?page_id=8128

Hope this helps some,

-Neil
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Old 11-18-03, 03:26 PM
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I think this issue of stem height and adjustability is an important one and probably a large reason I am in no hurry to buy a new touring bike.With most new bikes including the 520 going to threadless you can choice your stem height initially but are locked into that decision pretty much from what I understand.Now if Bruce has a threaded but lacks functional adjustability while insisting to build the bike putting the rider in a low(potentially haunched over) position instead of more upright or really wherever the buyer/rider prefers this is no good to me and valuable feedback.I do not want to see BG go under but I want on my touring bike a functionally adjustable headset/stem and this seems to me the type of area where BG would be well advised to try to differentiate himself from the inflexble large corporations instead of pedalling his own stubborn view of what a touring bike should be which besides the admirable characteristic of being somewhat "bombproof"otherwise seems from what I have read from these customer reviews to largely be things designed to avoid compatability with other manufacturers or to avoid cost on his part often at a cost of a less than ideal bike from this potential customer's viewpoint.
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Old 11-19-03, 11:11 AM
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Take a look at the Heron Touring. Todd Kuzma (owner) is easy to work with. The bike is spec'd for touring. Still has a quill stem. Made at the Waterford factory in Wisconsin. Lugged steel frame.

Heron Bicycles

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Old 06-02-08, 10:18 PM
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I've talked with Bruce several times and appreciate he is short on time trying to run a factory all by himself. Given that, he will do custom work if you are willing to pay for it. He'd be interested in doing more lugged frames. Too, you are not stuck with his package of stuff on his touring bikes. If you want something like a full Campy touring frame he might be able to do it if the parts are compatible and if you do not mind paying extra and waiting for the parts to show up. Get things straight in your mind and then contact him.
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Old 06-03-08, 10:35 AM
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Contrary to the many negative opinions voiced above I have happily ridden a Gordon RNR for almost twenty years with great satisfaction. I have used his racks even longer. Excellent design materials and construction.

Bruce has strong opinions about bike design and construction gained from decades of direct experience. He does not suffer fools gladly.

He mainly sells his best standard designs- the BLT and the RNR. They are not custom bikes in the usual definition of the term. He does offer custom builds yet even then will not build something that is technically a bad design merely because someone wants it.

Every one is entitled to their opinion but not their own facts about bike design and construction. Bruce builds traditional bikes with a long history and does not chase every fad in design and material. Choose his bikes if want a well made bike suited to touring on and off road.

The earlier comments seem to emphasize personality over technical substance in the purchase of a bike. That seems to me to be an erroneous basis for such an important and expensive decision.
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Old 06-03-08, 10:39 AM
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note, the original thread is 5 years old!!!
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Old 06-03-08, 10:59 AM
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I'm not sure how this thread got to where it is over the last 5 years.
I welcome anyone interested in my bikes to give me a call. I really don't think I am the "Ogre"
I was described as. I have spent most of the last 35 years of my life trying to make the best touring bikes I can.
Any questions - feel free to give me a call (707) 762-5601
P.S. My shop will be closed from June 5th through June 19th for vacation - my first real one in 5 years.
I have many many satisfied customers. You have heard from a few people who didn't like my phone presence. In a more perfect world - I would have other people answer the phone - but, I work by myself.
How many touring bike companies can you call and talk to the guy who actually builds your frame.
I welcome commments from people who have actually had my bikes.

P.P.S. I'm currently looking for investors so I can expand my business, and concentrate of the parts that I do best.
Regards,
Bruce Gordon
Bruce Gordon Cycles
www.bgcycles.com
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Old 08-18-08, 08:36 AM
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Yeah, I'm just eager to see BG selling bikes overseas in the near future. There's no way I can make a contact since I'm not in U.S.. Why can't I see any e-mails on the web?
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Old 08-18-08, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by memoiry
Yeah, I'm just eager to see BG selling bikes overseas in the near future. There's no way I can make a contact since I'm not in U.S.. Why can't I see any e-mails on the web?
I already do sell my bikes, etc. overseas via mail order. You can email me at bruce@bgcycles.com if you have any questions.
Regards,
Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com
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Old 08-18-08, 11:41 AM
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Not to rip on BG, but I notice that his prices have gone up considerably over the last year or so (understandably). The standard BLT is now $2350 sans shipping and assembly. Compare the BLT with the Surly LHT which costs around $1100 fully assembled at your LBS: The BLT is better, but is it worth more than twice as much? The LHT would need to have the crank changed to smaller chainrings, but other than that the components are as good/reliable or nearly as good as the BLT.

Even after paying extra to replace the cranks the LHT is still costs about half as much. The BLT & RNR look like great bikes, but I do think there are better values out there.
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Old 08-18-08, 07:32 PM
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My Bruce Gordon Rock N' Road Tour-Ex

Two years ago I had a garage fire and lost my fleet of bicycles. What I really lost was my 30 year old Phil Fisher custom built touring bicycle with 650B Wheels and a slew of very unique features. I replaced it with a Bruce Gordon Rock N' Road Tour-Ex which I absolutely love. I'm hard on bicycles and expect them to be tough and to perform. It does! It handles like a dream with a heavy load.

I love the bike and enjoyed dealing with Bruce Gordon. I have never met him face to face, but am a completely satisfied customer!
Wells Horton
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Old 08-18-08, 11:32 PM
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I rode a BG bike on a two week camping tour. For fully loaded touring (front and rear panniers) you can't beat his bikes and they come with everything you need, no $$upgrades$$$. These bikes are a good value if you want a premium bike. If you want something different than what he offers, just go elsewhere, but for the type of fully loaded camping tours he designs these bikes for, his bikes are right on the money.
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Old 08-20-08, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by crock
I rode a BG bike on a two week camping tour. For fully loaded touring (front and rear panniers) you can't beat his bikes and they come with everything you need, no $$upgrades$$$. These bikes are a good value if you want a premium bike. If you want something different than what he offers, just go elsewhere, but for the type of fully loaded camping tours he designs these bikes for, his bikes are right on the money.
I have been watching the BG "discussion" for some time and let me start by saying that you get what you pay for. there really is no point in comparing a BLT?? with a RNR or RNR-EX. They are two different bicycles!!

About 3 years ago I wanted an -EX type of bicycle but could not really afford the USD price differential so I found a fellow in Canada who is a custom bike maker bike like BG is. Discussion and discussion. He built my bike and wheels (48 spoke PW hubs on 26" sun rhyno-lite rims) and used S&S connectors on a lugged brazed frame. The thing weighs 40 pounds!!

I suspect that BG would do the same if you spent enough time talking with him and listening to his opinions (based on his success/failure experience). The customer is NOT always right but the customer pays for what they "want" - and get.

Sometimes the customer does NOT realize that they are ordering (and paying for) crap, when with more discussion and a bit more planning and a FEW more $$ they will get a really superior product.

My bicycle (built by Arvon Stacey) has stood the test of time. Components (Shumano) have failed - and sometimes catastrophically :-( Arvon's wheels and frame have NOT.

I suggest that comparing a RNR and a BLT is like comparing a Brompton and a Raleigh 20: both will get you there safely. Both have their quirks. BUT the former is certainly more sophisticated than the latter... Make no mistake about it: both should get you from A to B safely. But....

You get what you pay for. Functionality is not a part of THAT discussion :-)
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