bailout

I have never toured before but have always fanced the idea. I have done a fair bit of backpacking/climbing/travelling so it is the bike/cycling side that is new to me.

I have friends near Frankfurt and in Austria and probabl;y spare time over the next couple of months so I am thinking of cycling to see them. The first help I need is on route planning. Firstly in a very general way to estimate rough distance and hence time (I have seen advice that 50-60 miles a day should be a reasonable distance to aim for, is this about right?). Then specific advice on routes. I quite fancy the idea of just heading off and making it up as I go but I could see that could result in missing the best routes so would probably prefer a more planned approach.

If any body has some specific advice on routes that would be great but I would also be keen to hear general advice on how peple go about planning a route for a tour like this and what resources I could use. From what I understand many of the european countries have good cycling infrastructure and there is some lovely country between here and there but there is also a lot of highly developed urban areas and large roads which wouldn't be much fun.

Any hints or tips will be greatly appreciated

thanks

onbike 1939

Have a look here as they have many routes in the archive.

https://ctc.org.uk/

MichaelW

My approach to route planning to to work backwards from my destination: from which direction do I want to approach the town, this way I can best avoid major roads.
Then I look for any pinch points (river/rail/motorway crossings) and pick the quietest one (not neccessarily the shortest).
I then pick a few waymarks such as small town, villages or particular features I want to ride (eg to climb or avoid a hill or take a particular bike route).
The fine detail of the route is something I make up on the fly. I sometimes make mistakes and have to backtrack or take detours. Maps are only generalisations of the real world and you have to treat the information with a bit of caution. large scale OS maps are totally reliable but you can't carry many of them. My ideal cycling scale is 100,000:1, large enough to see detail but small enough so I spend more than a day on the map. 250,000:1 is just about usable. A compass is really useful to orient the map and a map holder (eg bar bag) speeds you up in complex navigational terrain.

I assume my travelling is at 10mph so 6hrs = 60 miles. That is a good distance to aim for because you will almost certainly have to ride more than you think. 80 miles is do-able for a non athletic cyclist but it is wise to keep a safety margin. Athletes can ride farther and faster.

Brains

I've done big sections of your possible route, my wife will not cycle on main roads, and dislikes roads with cars, and hates hills, so with a little planning and some good maps it is possible to do the route mostly off the beaten track (well, on the cycle path), away from hills, and no main roads.

Get the SUSTRANS maps for the UK section and the CYCLELINE maps by Estabauer for the German/Austrian section (best cycle maps in the world)

The Route:
Wells, Bath, Kennet and Avon Canal to London, through London on the east/west Thames cycle path, Greenwich, turn south to Gatwick, Turn East Dover
Calais, Brugge, Antwerp, Turn East to join up with the R.Rein cycle path, it goes all the way to Switzerland with a turning up the R.Main which leads to the R.Danube cycle path, Austria, and the path goes onto the Black Sea and then Istanbul if you have inclination

Flat almost the entire way, campsites and B&B's all along the route and a tour of Europe that can't be beat. !

bailout

Many thanks for the replies.

Brains, that sounds like a good route. I had thought of crossing earlier and riding through France but I need to work out distances and times. Someone else recomended going further in the UK and crossing Harwich - holland and then a similar route to yours. If the time is hort then I think it would be easier for me to cross the uk by train and cut of the start compared to my original idea of going to France.

I need to look into some of these ideas and see if I can get some more detail on the trail routes in this country. I don't know whether it is possible to order the maps here.

I did see the eurovelo site and some of their routes looked ideal but it seems they are mostly proposals and not in place yet.

One specific question. I was planning on camping and probably wild camping combined with campsites. Is it possible to wild camp on the river routes?

thanks

Gotte

When planning a tour, I start with microsoft routeplanner - not the best software for a lot of things, but the version I've got (not the current one, unfortunately), allows me to put in a mph. It then shows daily stops. I then check out cycle routes on the internet (very good in Germany). I then send off to the regional tourist boards, to get as much background info. I check the towns I'm looking at staying at on the internet to see what the hotel situation is like (credit card touring for me, I'm affraid). I then post lots of requests for info on various websites. I've only toured in Germany, but luckily, I speak some German and find I can get great help from a German touring website. I check past weather for the area, so I know I'm not setting myself up for a wet of windy tour, then I dream and dream and dream until it all comes together.
Because for all the worries about how it can all go wrong, when it happens, it's always the best thing in the world.
I have to say, though, the more you plan, the luckier you get.

Off the top of my head (and not know where in Austia you intend going), I'd cycle to Dover, get off at Calais, go down towards the Ardennes, over towards Colgne, down towards Frankfurt, then towards Munich. From there you have to go south and over the alps (though there's a pass I forget the name of that's not too high, then down towards the Inn river. you can then follow it east or west to wherever in Austria you want to go. Alternatively, if you're heading to Western Austria, go down towards Freidrchshaven on Bodensee and cut into Austria there, or if you're heading for Eastern Austria, head west past Munich towards berchtresgaden and then dip down into Austria through Salzburg.
If it were me, I'd go down the Mosell from Cologn, which is beautiful, head down towards the Black Forest, which is also beautiful, then pick up the Bodensee to Konigsee radweg, which is pretty flat, but, by all accounts (I've not done it, but dream of it) beautiful. That will take you to Salzburg without any climbing (climbing with panniers is a long and drawnout affair, believe me)

Good luck, my friend. Your first tour is always the best. Hope it's a blast.

Wow, I;ve got itchy feet, just describing it....

becnal

Cycle along the Rhine River bike path from Rotterdam to Mainz. Turn up the Main River bike path to Frankfurt, then continue past Frankfurt to the Main Danube Canal. Once you get to the Danube, follow the Danube cycle path to Austria.

Bike paths the whole way baby!

becnal

+1

Gotte

Ahh, Becnal, the man in the know.

becnal

Don't you know it, baby!

bailout

Thanks for the replies. For simplicity the rhine path from Rotterdam is looking attractive. I have also found a source of the esterbauer guides in the uk so I could order at least the first rhine one here.

Becnal, I see you are based in Frankfurt, I am getting concerned that I have left it too late this year. The earliest I could go would be beginning of september but perhaps more realisticaly the beginning of October. The weather here has been awful all summer and August has been more like autumn than summer. I know the weather there can be more severe with colder winters. How late in the year do you think it is possible to tour there and it still be a pleasent experience?

thanks

becnal

Hey Bailout, I imagine your tour will take less than a month. The weather here won't be a great deal different than in August. It will just be a bit cooler. Be prepared for rain, as though you were cycling in Ireland. The skies will most likely be grey, you will most likely experience showers, but it won't be bitterly cold or anything like that. Autumn is a great time around here to go bike riding.

I wouldn't tour in Germany in December or January. But October and even November would be fine.

pedalwhirl

I would check out the Eurovelo network
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroVelo

www.eurovelo.org

https://www.fahrradrouten.eu/bilder/eurovelo_map.jpg