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Rivendell to discontinue the Atlantis?

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Rivendell to discontinue the Atlantis?

Old 10-01-08, 09:40 PM
  #1  
metal_cowboy
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Rivendell to discontinue the Atlantis?

I know this may sound strange, but while I was waiting for my new Atlantis frame to be prepped by the fine folks at Aaron's Bike Repair, I heard them say that Rivendell sent them a letter stating that they were going to discontinue the Atlantis. At first I thought this was absurd,but then I remembered that they discontinued the Rambouillet.

Perhaps it is the hight cost of overseas production that could spell the end to the Atlantis. At $1600 it is already a pricey frame, but GP announced that most frames are going to go up at least $200.00.

I did hear that the Atlantis is going to be replaced by a bike called the "Sam Hill". This would probably be a Taiwaneese made Atlantis clone priced at a substantial savings. I am sure the ride will be similiar, but the loss of the Atlanits is a sad day for those of us who appreciate a fine lugged steel frame.

P.S. For those that buy a Trek 520 or a Surly LHT instead of an Atlantis, let me tell you that the ride may be similiar,but the construction, finish, and quality of the Atlantis can not be matched.

Tailwinds.
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Old 10-02-08, 05:03 AM
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I believe the price increases are definite, and looks like they are doing something in Taiwan.

I don't think they're going to drop anything right away though. They're a stubborn bunch.... Either send Rivendell an email, or ignore the rumors.
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Old 10-02-08, 06:22 AM
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The day the Rambouillet died was a very sad day indeed. For me it's almost the perfect bike.
Capable of touring, yet light enough to be fast. With 32 mm tires I even feel comfortable
offroad. If the Atlantis goes I think the "Sam Hill" would be almost identical, but cost less.
That's not a wholey bad thing.
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Old 10-02-08, 08:27 AM
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Riv sold frames thru QBP last year;

I'd love a relatively proletariat Atlanis -wait~! I've got a LHT!
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Old 10-02-08, 08:35 AM
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Rivendell has lots of info on their website, and they answer both phone calls and e-mail. So, if you want an Atlantis, give them a call.

Are prices going up? Well, the price of shredded wheat, milk, and gasoline have doubled over the past two years. I don't think the bike industry is immune to the impact of Bushonomics.
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Old 10-02-08, 09:47 AM
  #6  
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The Rambouillet didn't die, it just went into suspended animation ("put to sleep for a while" is what the Riv website says).

I wouldn't believe anything about the Atlantis going out of production until I heard it from the folks at Rivendell. That frame sums up the "any road, any load, any time" philosophy of Rivendell so well that I seriously doubt they would ever stop making it.
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Old 10-02-08, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by markf View Post
The Rambouillet didn't die, it just went into suspended animation ("put to sleep for a while" is what the Riv website says).

I wouldn't believe anything about the Atlantis going out of production until I heard it from the folks at Rivendell. That frame sums up the "any road, any load, any time" philosophy of Rivendell so well that I seriously doubt they would ever stop making it.
Given GP's addiction to tire clearance the prospect of Riv ever making a bike that is limited to 32mm tires again is a small one. The AHH is being sold as a replacement for the Ram, sort of a big clearance relaxed Ram, and I'm all for that. Peter White has ordered a run of the frames for himself as he says he's getting in a bunch of them in Jan 2009, but he doesn't know what color they'll be yet. I think he's onto something here as I think the Ram is a nicer bike than the AHH, it's just sleeker.

For Riv to sell the Ram again would probably require them to drop another bike and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that.
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Old 10-02-08, 11:50 PM
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Rivendell frames are not made in his shop here?
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Old 10-03-08, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
Rivendell frames are not made in his shop here?
Nope. All of the production frames are made in a Japanese factory called Toyo, except for a few that may be made at Waterford. Even the custom Rivendells are made somewhere else. Rivendell doesn't actually employ any frame builders. They just do the design part and sell you some ugly bags to go on it.
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Old 10-03-08, 12:22 AM
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Do they at least paint them,or does the bean counter in him farm that out too?You can put one hell of a nice paint job on a LHT frame for $1000-$1200.

All this time I thought they were hand made by someone who gives a crap,screw him,he's just a bean counter.All this time I've been wanting a Rivendell if my old Shogun died,Hell will freeze over before he gets a dime out of me.I can't believe that this guy just draws a picture of a frame and charges $1600+ for it.That's really sad.

I'm sure he has plenty of time to answer phones and E-mail,since I guess all he does is assemble bicycles.Now I want his to business to fail,screw him!

Last edited by Booger1; 10-03-08 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 10-03-08, 05:42 AM
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I'm not exactly a Rivendell fan, but:

1) They have always been open and clear about where the frames are made.
2) Having frames made in Japan is hardly an indication that they are uncaring "bean counters." If anything, afaik they selected a high-quality shop to make their frames.
3) They do have custom options, if that's what you want or need.
4) It's pretty clear that Peterson cares a great deal about his product, his business, and his approach to cycling. I.e. he's not coming out with carbon anything any time soon, just because most cyclists are suckers for carbon.

Or do you really think that the only person who deserves your business is a guy who works 12 hours a day, welds frames by hand, all alone, in a dinky garage in Wisconsin and has a 6-month backlog...?
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Old 10-03-08, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
Do they at least paint them,or does the bean counter in him farm that out too?You can put one hell of a nice paint job on a LHT frame for $1000-$1200.

All this time I thought they were hand made by someone who gives a crap,screw him,he's just a bean counter.All this time I've been wanting a Rivendell if my old Shogun died,Hell will freeze over before he gets a dime out of me.I can't believe that this guy just draws a picture of a frame and charges $1600+ for it.That's really sad.

I'm sure he has plenty of time to answer phones and E-mail,since I guess all he does is assemble bicycles.Now I want his to business to fail,screw him!
I think you're being a bit unfair, Rivendell designs some beautiful, practical, and fun bikes. The production frames (apart from the Bleriot) are made by Toyo or Waterford so they are of top notch quality. Riv has a close relationship with a Curt Goodrich who builds the custom frames and Joe Bell who paints them. There's a certain annoyance factor with Riv, the bags are ugly (so buy Carradice), the hype for 650b is overplayed, and they are just a tad self important, but I admire GP for going against the mainstream in bike design and producing some of the most comfortable and beautiful bikes out there.
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Old 10-03-08, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
4) It's pretty clear that Peterson cares a great deal about his product, his business, and his approach to cycling. I.e. he's not coming out with carbon anything any time soon, just because most cyclists are suckers for carbon.
Of course not. He is selling an image that anything new is suspect to a market ranging from traditionalists to complete Luddites.

My opinion is that 95% of what he says on the Rivendell site is total BS. I do find their frame sizing method to be a useful "rule of thumb" starting point as long as I drop three sizes from their recommendation.

I admire his business success, but reading the prose on his site, I alternate between disgusted and amused. He does hit a market that wants what he is selling though, so if they are happy and he makes a profit it is all good. I just don't personally care for that flavor of koolaid.
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Old 10-03-08, 07:32 AM
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Yeah, and those $9000 Treks and Specializeds aren't being sold to mindless idiots who are buying the opposite image that Rivendell is selling.
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Old 10-03-08, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
Yeah, and those $9000 Treks and Specializeds aren't being sold to mindless idiots who are buying the opposite image that Rivendell is selling.
UH, no one said they weren't...
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Old 10-03-08, 09:30 AM
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Variety is the spice of life. So who's making/marketing a line of quality steel bikes these days aside from customs? If you're thinking Surly, please don't. Welded vs. lugged and two vastly different lines of thought as far as marketing/application/end-users goes. Though, they are both manufactured in the orient, except for Riv's customs. Viva la difference!

Rivendell provides a nice alternative and counter-balance to everything else. Neccessary in a healthy industry.

GP's thought's and opinions aside (some of which I buy into, some I don't)—I love his sense of bicycle asthetics.
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Old 10-03-08, 10:27 AM
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Toyo may be the best frame maker in the world for all I know,they are a beautiful piece of work,but for the money he charges for things,I cannot believe that there is not a frame maker in all of the U.S. that can't/won't work with the guy to make frames here.For a few hundred dollars more I can get a custom frame,made here,anyway I want.I may have to wait for it(good things come to those that wait),but I sure can get a lugged Cro-Mo frame made here if I want one.

Beautiful yes,I'm sure they're plenty fun but practical,you have to WANT one.It's not exactly the type of bike most people buy to go grocery shopping with or ride to the park on the weekend.

I could teach a monkey to draw a picture of a bicycle,then send it overseas and have someone make it.It not like he's using some kind of new technology,frame angles,materials.He's using proven tech that's been around a LONG time.

That just makes me so sad....I have to stop or I'll go postal thinking about this.

Last edited by Booger1; 10-03-08 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 10-03-08, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
Toyo may be the best frame maker in the world for all I know,they are a beautiful piece of work,but for the money he charges for things,I cannot believe that there is not a frame maker in all of the U.S. that can't/won't work with the guy to make frames here.For a few hundred dollars more I can get a custom frame,made here,anyway I want.I may have to wait for it(good things come to those that wait),but I sure can get a lugged Cro-Mo frame made here if I want one.

That just makes me so sad....
Probably not without either charging more or cutting his profit margin.
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Old 10-03-08, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by markf View Post
The Rambouillet didn't die, it just went into suspended animation ("put to sleep for a while" is what the Riv website says).
"It's not dead; It's just sleeping; Beautiful plumage!"
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Old 10-03-08, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by metal_cowboy View Post
P.S. For those that buy a Trek 520 or a Surly LHT instead of an Atlantis, let me tell you that the ride may be similiar, but the construction, finish, and quality of the Atlantis can not be matched.
The price isn't similar either. Whether they discontinue the Atlantis or not is really a philosophical point to me--it's not like I'll ever see one in person.

That said, I'd be sorry if they did, because then I'd have even less of a chance of seeing one in person;/
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Old 10-03-08, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by metal_cowboy View Post
P.S. For those that buy a Trek 520 or a Surly LHT instead of an Atlantis, let me tell you that the ride may be similiar,but the construction, finish, and quality of the Atlantis can not be matched.
Yeah, but the "construction, finish, and quality" of the frame will make zero difference in how well the bikes does on a tour. I am not knocking the pride of ownership thing, but that is what it is about. The actual difference in comfort or performance is probably nil.
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Old 10-03-08, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
Toyo may be the best frame maker in the world for all I know,they are a beautiful piece of work,but for the money he charges for things,I cannot believe that there is not a frame maker in all of the U.S. that can't/won't work with the guy to make frames here.For a few hundred dollars more I can get a custom frame,made here,anyway I want.I may have to wait for it(good things come to those that wait),but I sure can get a lugged Cro-Mo frame made here if I want one.

Beautiful yes,I'm sure they're plenty fun but practical,you have to WANT one.It's not exactly the type of bike most people buy to go grocery shopping with or ride to the park on the weekend.

I could teach a monkey to draw a picture of a bicycle,then send it overseas and have someone make it.It not like he's using some kind of new technology,frame angles,materials.He's using proven tech that's been around a LONG time.

That just makes me so sad....I have to stop or I'll go postal thinking about this.

Booger,

I think you are getting a little hot under the collar for no reason. Waterford makes many of his frames here in the U.S. Also, Curt Goodrich who does his customs is here in the U.S.

I guess its like you found out Santa doesn't exist. But I have never read anywhere which would even imply that Grant and Rivendell were the makers of the frames.

I guess you could always get a Richard Sachs or a Vanilla....if you want to wait six years.
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Old 10-03-08, 02:01 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
I could teach a monkey to draw a picture of a bicycle,then send it overseas and have someone make it.
Anyone is free to make these comments; anyone also is free to put up the capital for designs, sourcing, tooling, graphic design, letters of credit for import, warehousing in the u.s., sales, advertising, customer service, liability insurance, health insurance for your employees, etc.

If it's *really* that easy, make sure you put up an announcement here when your monkey-designed frames are available.
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Old 10-03-08, 05:33 PM
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For the record, we are talking about Japan here. Unlike China, where the name of the game is cost cutting by exploiting a workforce that is suffering under extreme totalitarianism, Japan is an advanced, democratic, 1st world nation, that competes mainly on quality, not price. I seriously doubt Rivendell saves any money by having the frames made in Japan compared with having them done by someone here in the USA (after all, the cost of living is higher in Japan than here and thus the labor rates paid to frame builders are most likely even higher there, then factor in the extra transportation costs and its even worse).

Of course I'd still rather have all the money trading hands stay in my local economy instead of some going overseas. But if it is going somewhere else, at least it is going to an acceptable nation like Japan (I feel the same about 1st world European made goods) instead of somewhere like China.
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Old 10-03-08, 06:52 PM
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I recently bought an Atlantis, just waiting for it to arrive. I can tell you that Grant and the folks at Rivendell have been nothing but honest and very helpful. Heck, they have even tried to talk me out of spending money with them. I looked at going the custom route, but I found it to be more expensive, especially if you go with a well know builder. With lesser known builders you cannot always be assured of the quality of the build. Booger1 you act like someone is forcing you to buy their products.
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