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-   -   Probable cause? (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/486756-probable-cause.html)

scottfl 11-16-08 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Cyclesafe (Post 7860514)
No wonder you were checked for drugs. :thumb:

He was looking for the wrong drug though. Speed != crack.

Wanderer 11-16-08 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by scottfl (Post 7860479)
Starting in South Florida and then riding up to Alaska. From there down to the tip of South America. After that New Zealand, Australia and then southeast Asia. Not sure where after that.

Now, that is really cool!

Good Luck, and Godspeed!

robow 11-16-08 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by scottfl (Post 7860496)
Understood about the weight/hills. It'll just make the ride down the hill that much better.

I do hope in that 113 lbs. you have allowed for a few ounces of replacement brake pads :) Now let's see some pics of that barge that you call a bike and best of luck to you on that ambitious journey.

staehpj1 11-16-08 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by scottfl (Post 7860496)
Re: century ride in 3 days vs 1 = newbie mistake. Understood about the weight/hills. It'll just make the ride down the hill that much better. 113 pounds though--let's not make it worse than it is. :)

First let me say that I wish you all the best with your proposed trip. It sounds like a big challenge and will be a great experience.

You may find that you actually don't mind carrying a load on the heavy side, but...
I strongly advise that you try your best to keep the weight down. On our coast to coast trip we sent stuff home several times. Sending 2-4 pounds home made a noticeable difference in the mountains. Riding alone the difference will be less noticeable because you don't have other riders to keep up with or measure your progress against, but still it does make a big difference.

You really don't need all that much crossing the US so personally I would start with 30-40 pounds of stuff max. If when you get into a part of the trip that you feel you need more, add more stuff as needed. No need to train with the big load, after riding the first few thousand miles you will be in great shape whether you started with the big load or not.

If you have someone at home it works great to mail stuff back and forth. Send home anything you don't use or can do without. As climate changes, have warmer/colder gear sent from home. This will definitely work for the parts of your trip in the US and Canada. After that you will have a lot of miles under your belt and will certainly know what will work best for you.

staehpj1 11-16-08 10:41 AM


Originally Posted by scottfl (Post 7860496)
Understood about the weight/hills. It'll just make the ride down the hill that much better. 113 pounds though--let's not make it worse than it is. :)

Don't forget that in the mountains you might climb at 4-8 mph and descend at 30-50 mph. As a result you don't do much making up for it on the downhills since you might spend hours climbing and minutes going back down. It is just how it is, you spend WAY more time climbing than descending. It can be quite discouraging if you don't have the right attitude.

Erick L 11-16-08 10:46 AM

Riding headwind in the rain and eating oatmeal for a month would be a better training, IMO. Even better, follow this training schedule (he rode from Florida to Alaska too): http://cyclingtrip.com/sections/guide/index.htm

CardiacKid 11-16-08 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by Cyclesafe (Post 7860434)
If I recall my Crim Pro class correctly the cop needs a reason to believe (50%+ chance - AKA probable cause) that you have committed some crime (no matter how slight - even vagrancy) to detain you. But I think he would have come up with some sort of story that would be plausible in the community in question - especially in retrospect - so as a practical matter you would have no case....
Encounters with law enforcement require that you mind your P's and Q's. Bear in mind that in a country that sponsors Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and the Patriot Act, your Constitutional rights not guaranteed.

While I am no expert in criminal procedure, I think the phrase you are looking for is "reasonable suspicion" not "probable cause". An officer who stops someone for questioning, must have a reasonable suspicion a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed. This standard is much less than probable cause. Once stopped, the officer can conduct a limited search for weapons of the area under the suspects control, if the officer has a reasonable suspicion the suspect is armed and dangerous. Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968).

Ronsonic 11-16-08 01:23 PM

My guess is that your cop hasn't seen enough cyclotourists to know the difference between you and a rolling hobo*. I'm thinking that all he saw was a guy on a bike loaded up with everything he owns riding through a bad part of town and then hanging in a secluded area.

*Could be a pretty fine line for some of us who've been out there too long. :)

Cyclesafe 11-16-08 01:34 PM


I think the phrase you are looking for is "reasonable suspicion" not "probable cause".
I stand corrected. Good thing I don't practice.

Machka 11-16-08 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by scottfl (Post 7860496)
Re: century ride in 3 days vs 1 = newbie mistake. Understood about the weight/hills. It'll just make the ride down the hill that much better. 113 pounds though--let's not make it worse than it is. :)

Yes, a century is 100 miles in one day. :)


And as for hills ... you'll be walking up hills with that load, and let me tell you ... pushing a loaded bicycle up hills is a long and painful experience!! Have you tried riding hills with that load yet?

And no, all that weight won't make riding down hill that much better ... it can be hard to control. How are your brakes?

On my first tour of any length, I flew to Europe with 90-100 lbs of gear, including my 27 lb bicycle. But that weight also included everything I needed for the Paris-Brest-Paris. I struggled getting around with that much stuff ... I couldn't lift my bicycle, and lifting the bicycle is something that comes in handy while touring Europe. Halfway through the time there, I left about 10 lbs of stuff at a friends place, and then toured Wales with about 80-90 lbs of gear, including the bicycle. And I walked a lot. I was in the best shape I've ever been in ... in preparation for the PBP, and that was a good thing because I would have walked a lot more if I'd been anything less.

Then I headed for Australia in 2004, for three months, with about 70 lbs of gear, including the bicycle. I thought I was doing well cutting my load down that much, but still struggled badly for the first few days ... and I left over 10 lbs of stuff with a friend in Sydney before continuing on.

From my experience, I've found that if the load (including the bicycle) I've got is less than half my body weight, I can manage it fairly well. But once it gets up over that mark, I struggle. And the more I struggle, the less enjoyable the trip is.

I'd strongly recommend taking another look at your collection and determining if you really need it, or if you can either leave it behind or find a lighter object. On this 3 day tour you've just done ... were there things in your collection you didn't touch? If so, why not? You don't have to answer that here ... but it's something to think about before you commit to taking all that weight on an extended trip. Remember too ... you can buy things along the way.

scottfl 11-16-08 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by robow (Post 7860785)
I do hope in that 113 lbs. you have allowed for a few ounces of replacement brake pads :) Now let's see some pics of that barge that you call a bike and best of luck to you on that ambitious journey.

Here's my barge.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/...10845868_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/...f9d95200_o.jpg

Jerry L 11-16-08 03:05 PM

Hopefully you'll file a complaint. Nice rig.

wrk101 11-16-08 08:00 PM

As to the weight of gear, remember, at least in the USA, there are Walmarts everywhere. Don't carry stuff that you can easily buy along the way.

I don't carry that much stuff when I tour on my motorcycle....

Cave 11-16-08 08:22 PM


Here's my barge.
Nice bike.

If you're carrying that much, why not check out the Koga Miyata trailer that folds out to form a picnic table and chair?

BTW the terrain looks pretty flat there...

Cave 11-16-08 08:31 PM

Link to the chela trailer:
http://www.koga.com/uk/newsitem.asp?id=7197841

Look up some of the threads on light weight touring. There has to be a way to do the tour with less weight.

Also, you don't have to carry everything from the start. You could get stuff sent to you.

Machka 11-16-08 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by Cave (Post 7863190)
BTW the terrain looks pretty flat there...

From everything I've heard Florida is very flat ... much like Manitoba where I came from. I discovered very quickly that when you add hills to the equation, it's a whole different story. It's not difficult to cart that much stuff with you on flat ground, but getting all that up a hill is quite the task!

robow 11-16-08 09:13 PM

I knew I recognized that bike from my tour along the Ohio River this summer.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...7/IMG_1595.jpg

mijome07 11-16-08 09:51 PM

It sucks you were messed with. For what it's worth, I have a lot of family members who are cops, sheriffs, CHP, etc. (including one of my older brothers). My brother told me, he can find any reason to pull you over and/or search your car (or in this case, bike). And no, he's not a 22 year old rookie! I used to get pulled over quite a bit (when I owned a car), and the cops always had some bull$hit excuse they thought was valid. Funny thing was, they always let me go, because they didn't have anything on me. :D F THE COPPERS!

gpsblake 11-17-08 12:51 AM


Originally Posted by Machka (Post 7863265)
From everything I've heard Florida is very flat ...

The panhandle part of of FL away from the coast is not totally flat... Tallahassee in fact is quite hilly, especially climbing to the state capital area or along US 90 in that part of the state.. On my tour, the panhandle of Florida was by far the hilliest until I reached the other side of Austin Texas.

110 pounds though, that's a load to carry..... I would advise scottfl to think of everything he took during the 3 days but didn't use or need....

Wouldn't think cops would mess with you in that part of FL, I've read quite a few journals of people riding around that lake and those towns (especially Belle Glade), I figure they would be used to loaded bicycles.

DukeArcher 11-17-08 03:37 AM

I kind of like his setup. Reminds me of my own :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2250/...42d05b.jpg?v=0

Rowan 11-17-08 05:58 AM

Scott has a Brooks. That's all that counts!!

Nice rig, and you've obviously put a lot of thought into it. The advice of everyone is well-meaning, but as usual, one always finds out what they do and don't need on shakedown rides. No doubt you are reassessing everything, and you will continue to do so as you go along on your major adventure.

You do need a bit of flexibility to pack away things like food. And documents of all sorts seem to accumulate like coat-hangers -- you don't realise how much is there until you sit down and sort through it, put it in a pile and suddenly find those pamphlets, maps, information sheets, receipts and souvenir stubs weigh a pound or two on their own!

Apart from all the Walmarts and other shops scattered along your route, there's also US Postal and they quite happily will take whatever you want to dispense with and post it home for you.

One more little thing... I would be a bit nervous with the ground clearance of your front panniers. They are quite low to the ground and that doesn't give you much room to lean into corners on those fast downhills you are anticipating. It's really a shock to find your panniers dragging on the ground, both because it wears them out, and they have the potential to pitch the bike off line. You'll see the difference between the height off the ground of the front panniers on your bike and Duke's.

staehpj1 11-17-08 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by gpsblake (Post 7864340)
The panhandle part of of FL away from the coast is not totally flat... Tallahassee in fact is quite hilly, especially climbing to the state capital area or along US 90 in that part of the state.. On my tour, the panhandle of Florida was by far the hilliest until I reached the other side of Austin Texas.

I haven't ridden there (the panhandle), but it is hard to picture it as hilly when the highest point in the state is 345 feet. Is it rolling hills that go up and down 100 feet or so repeatedly or what? Just curious, it doesn't seem like really big climbs are possible given the range of elevations in the state. I guess a lot of short ones in sequence can be relentless though.

reiffert 11-17-08 09:08 AM

"... I would have probably gotten his badge number and maybe reported it to the AG. "

+1, only not probably

robow 11-17-08 10:03 AM

Nice looking set up but I have to agree with Rowan on how low your front panniers are set to the ground. With what you have before you, I can almost guarantee that at some point you will be dragging those and that's not good.

SRS 11-17-08 11:29 AM

I agree with Rowan. Your shakedown rides will allow you to determine what you need and, additionally, how you perform with gear and bike weight.

I have taken late Autumn to early Spring tours with considerable weight - total bike weight (bike, gear, etc.) around 130lbs. I weigh about 160lbs and run a 24/34 low gear. I can't recall ever walking a climb though I've had some impressively slow ascents. I remember one approx. 9 mile 8% avg grade that took me 2 hours to summit. My speed gave me plenty of time to enjoy the spectacular view.

The stock Koga-Miyata World Traveler is well setup for climbing with weight with a 22/32 low gear. With proper gearing and building good rider power/endurance you'll be fine. And, if necessary, you walk. That's good too.

bikerlee 11-17-08 01:46 PM

Hi,
Maybe he heard that a "loaded bicyclist" was riding through townand misunderstood. 113 pounds is loaded!

gpsblake 11-17-08 09:01 PM


Originally Posted by staehpj1 (Post 7864795)
I haven't ridden there (the panhandle), but it is hard to picture it as hilly when the highest point in the state is 345 feet. Is it rolling hills that go up and down 100 feet or so repeatedly or what?

Yes. It's not horrible if you compare it to like Pennsylvania or West Virginia, but you'll be surprised at the number of 100 and 150 foot climbs up and down in that part of Florida. Using my Topo program, I climbed 3070 feet from Monticello FL to Chattahoochie FL.... And I would hate to do that climb from the Apalachicola River into Chattahoochee FL from the west on US 90.. it's a 7 percent grade of 200 feet climbing...

Machka 11-17-08 09:29 PM


Originally Posted by gpsblake (Post 7869877)
Yes. It's not horrible if you compare it to like Pennsylvania or West Virginia, but you'll be surprised at the number of 100 and 150 foot climbs up and down in that part of Florida. Using my Topo program, I climbed 3070 feet from Monticello FL to Chattahoochie FL.... And I would hate to do that climb from the Apalachicola River into Chattahoochee FL from the west on US 90.. it's a 7 percent grade of 200 feet climbing...

But that's the thing ... depending on which route Scott takes to Alaska, he could be encountering much greater percentages than that (7% isn't all that steep) ... and much longer climbs (like several kilometres).


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