Probable cause?
 

Just got back from a 3 day ride around Lake Okeechobee today. It was my first tour on my KWT fully loaded (113 pounds of gear--prepping for a much longer ride). Had an interesting run in with the police in a tiny little town called Moore Haven and was wondering if anyone else had experienced this. The ride around the lake (120 miles or so) is mostly up on a raised dike but once in a while you have to come down because the locks (flood control) are restricted access. In Moore Haven I had to do just that but I missed the part where I was supposed to get back on the trail and keep going. Finally I wound up at a gas station after having ridden through a "bad" part of town. Well someone from the sheriffs office saw me leaving that area and took the opportunity to ask for my driver's license, destination, origination, place of birth, etc. He then asked if he could search through my panniers. Since he had no reason to stop me or even ask for my ID in the first place I said no. So then he asks if I would mind if he called the K9 unit. I said go ahead thinking the pictures alone would be worth the trouble. Long story short, my ID checks out and it turns out I'm not a wanted serial killer so he let's me go. No K9 pics this time.

So is it just my bad luck that he decided to give me the 3rd degree? I obviously wasn't in Moore Haven to buy crack and he said he stopped me for 2 reasons: riding through a "bad" area (I didn't stop or talk to anyone in that area) and riding into a "hidden area" which consisted of 2 palm trees next to the parking lot (needed the shade while I consulted GPS). He also said he'd found 10 crack rocks on another guy on a bike a few weeks ago (anyone want to fess up?). I doubt the other guy was on a KWT with 4 loaded panniers and a trunk bag though.

I was definitely a smart ass after he asked to search my bags but up until that point I answered all his questions.

Are small town LEOs generally pretty trusting of guys riding through their town on tour and I should just write this off?

The picture is not of me waiting for a plane to drop off a drug shipment. :)

113 lbs of gear?!?!?!? Does that include the bicycle? Are you "training for" a trip that will be several years in length?

The police officer probably just wanted to know what in the world you were carrying ... I'm curious too!!

That does not include the bike. :) Yes, I'll be riding for at least a couple years.

Do you have an online packing list?


And are you planning to make use of public transportation anywhere along the way? Airlines have a fairly strict weight limit these days ... and getting my bicycle and all my gear onto trains in places like Europe and Australia makes me wish all I had with me was the bicycle, a miniature handlebar bag, and a small trunk bag.

There is just no telling what goes on. Maybe this was a VERY slow day for him. Maybe you just naturally have that serial-killer look to you. I've run into minor stuff (not bike related) with large-city policemen, so I wouldn't say this was a small-town issue, really. I wouldn't worry about it, just go on.

Hmmm.I'm a criminal defense attorney, and from what you have described, he had no right to detain you. YOu could have left at any time. I would have said, "Am I under arrest, or am I free to go." Of course, that's because I am obstreperous. If you screw with them, they will screw you back, and usually they will win.

I am not a lawyer. The closest I have come to the law is being a lawmaker. I remember debating proposals that referred to people, "driving while black". It is a real issue in some parts of our nation.

But you are the first I have found being harassed for, "riding while loaded." :lol:

I was stopped riding back from a tour. It was after midnight, and I was on the Schuylkill River Trail. The trail is supposed to be open 24 hours a day, but the parks and adjoining land close at dusk. I recall the cop greeting me with "Going out for a bike ride?" Once he heard my story of getting back late after a mechanical problem, and saw my Lycra and panniers, he wished me a safe trip back home (12 miles) and drove off.

You know you don't have to carry all of your food for two years don't you? :)

113 lbs???? I'd like to see a packing list too.

Maybe on the list is a bazooka and crate of shells for going through those rough areas. :)

Once in Wyoming I was stopped on the side of the road to take a picture and a cop pulled over and asked what I was doing. I told him I was just taking a picture. He looked at my gear and asked where I was from. I told him and told him where I had been and where I was going, etc.

Afterward I said, "It's hot today."

He said, "Yes it is. You have enough water and everything? You okay?"

"Oh yeah. I'm fine." I said. "You got any ice cream in there?"

He laughed and then drove off. "Have a good day!" he said as he spun a bunch of dirt in the air with his tires.

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Another time I was pulled over by a cop in East St. Louis, Illinois. He wanted to know what I was doing in such a bad part of town (I didn't know East Saint Louis was such a bad place previously). I told him I was simply trying to get to St. Louis. The officer told me to wait a minute as he called another officer to the scene. Once the other officer got there, I received a full police escort to the bridge that takes from you from Illinois to Missouri. It was awesome!

We were only going about 12 miles an hour the whole way there. People were looking at me and I was trying to go as fast as I could so as to not hold these police up from doing more important things, but it was a lot of fun. It was really hysterical I thought. I felt like the president or something. I didn't ask for the escort, but they just gave it to me.

My experiences with the police have been very good overall. Many of them have told me about secret stealth camping spots and directed me to places I needed to get to.

Why that officer pulled you over, I don't know. Maybe you need to clean up your image a little? I know that when traveling on bike it is easy to look like a total bum, so that could have been it, but because I wasn't there myself I really don't know what your problem was.

Yeah I guess the best thing to do in this situation is to just cooperate but I would have probably gotten his badge number and maybe reported it to the AG.

Sounds like both circumstances where the officers were really cared for you welfare.

Police escort by two cars! That is pretty cool! I thought it was great when I was escorted out of Cremona by a motorcycle copy, but two cars, wow! :)

http://i35.tinypic.com/25qd56s.jpg

You had a police escort out of Cremona?? Cremona's a town with a population of about 1000 people just south of here. Last time I was there some of the good ol' boys looked like they could get a little roudy later that night, but otherwise it was pretty quiet.

I think he means the Cremona in Italy, nice town with an excellent clock tower!

Scott, I ride through Moore Haven fairly often and have never had a problem with the cops. However, I am only on day trips with a small bag. I have ridden throughout the town and especially like to climb the large bridge. This is really bad publicity for the town. There are many retirees that want to live by Lake Okeechobee and the remainder of the town seems non-affluent. I think you may have run across a less than stellar example of law enforcement. Most are good, but some lack good judgment. Many cyclists stop there while traveling the "Florida Trail" which goes around the Lake. I wonder if his boss, Sheriff Whiddon, knows how you were treated. You could llet him know. Sorry for the long post.

That would explain the Italian on the street signs and motorcycle.

Yes pretty cool! It is actually a calendar too.

http://i33.tinypic.com/33zeixy.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2vje5o4.jpg

Scott, I was wondering why the cop would have been interested in searching your stuff. Then I looked at your photo. He probably thought you had your mom in your bags. Not that that is a bad thing.

Thanks wfromm. It sounds like a case of wrong place, wrong time. It still amazes me how nice everyone was along the entire lake so I wouldn't hesitate for a second to ride it again. Had a guy in one of the locks offer me water, another guy in a trailer further up did the same and there were many friendly waves from passers-by. Going down the bridge was a blast by the way (not a lot of wiggle room though). I hit 23.9 mph which is supersonic fully loaded. :)

113 pounds? Please explain.

More likely he thought it was his mom. Yeah, I know 113 pounds seems like a lot but 15 mph, while still being able to bring a little laptop, my camera (DSLR) a tent and a hammock--which kills the other thread, is plenty fast for me. I'm also planning to take some side hikes so I'm bringing hiking shoes and a backpack. Everything is pretty lightweight but it adds up. I won't be working (joy) so I'll be able to take my time and enjoy the journey.

If you rode 120 miles total for three days how is that a century? Most people call a century 100 miles in one day.

113 pounds of gear! :eek:
How long of a trip are you prepping for and how remote of a location is it? 30-40 pounds is pretty normal for a coast to coast trip in the US. Some people manage with less and some carry more. I have not met a single person who looked like they were carrying any thing close to 113 pounds and I met a lot of transcontinental riders last summer on the TA and a bunch of long distance riders on the PCH. I would advise having a look at some other folks gear lists and then trimming yours drastically.

Oh, almost forgot to answer the original question. I've never hassled by local law enforcement. Some chatted me up when I was at a rest stop or something, but none ever stopped me. I got chatted up more on the TA but that was because I was with two attractive young women (my daughter and a friend).

Edit:
I should have also mentioned that unless your proposed tour is flat like Florida the weight will be a much bigger handicap. Most good places for touring have lots of hills or mountain passes. That is where the weight really gets you. Carrying 133 pounds in Florida is way different that carrying it over the Rockies or Appalachians.

I can see two sides to this -the individual rights side and the pragmatic side.

I totally respect the fact that unreasonable search is intrusive, and I see your point. It's one of many things that may differentiate a really good country from a bad one.

On the other hand, I see a pragmatic side, most especially since it was just you and the officer. I have nothing to hide in my panniers, so I'd have said "sure, go ahead". No big deal to me, even if I didn't like it. I know it would be inconvenient, but I'd think it would be a lot less inconvenient than refusing, having to wait for a K9 unit, possibly being hassled more, kept on a trumped up charge, being singled out for being awkward.... even if I could prove it at some later date in court it was unreasonable. Yep, life's unfair at times.

The only time I'd refuse a search on unreasonable grounds is if I strongly suspected the officer might plant something. Even then, things would be bleak as even another attending officer is likely to turn a blind eye or the officer could say he had a reason to search (who believes a cycling tourist's word against a veteran police officer in court anyway?).

Nope, the pragmatic side of me would win over and just empty out the contents.

If I recall my Crim Pro class correctly the cop needs a reason to believe (50%+ chance - AKA probable cause) that you have committed some crime (no matter how slight - even vagrancy) to detain you. But I think he would have come up with some sort of story that would be plausible in the community in question - especially in retrospect - so as a practical matter you would have no case.

Especially while touring, I view law enforcement as a source of physical security and never fail to wave (with all my fingers) at all officers on the road and saying hello to those lying in wait along the side of the road. I've also had offers of water and suggestions for camping.

Now officers are human too and there's a whole range of attitudes out there. To maximize positive outcomes I smile, am friendly, I am helpful, I will provide identification, and I would allow a patdown. However, being the civil libertarian that I am, if I were to be asked to submit to a search of my bags, I would politely refuse (Yes, I suppport your war on drugs, but I'd rather you didn't search my bags), but do absolutely nothing otherwise to provoke the officer. There's an infintesimal chance that the officer could plant contraband, but if you've been cooperative up to that point, you would have given him no reason to do so.

Encounters with law enforcement require that you mind your P's and Q's. Bear in mind that in a country that sponsors Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and the Patriot Act, your Constitutional rights not guaranteed.