Chatbox

Hello all!

I'm planning my first tour and am trying to limit my expenses for the tour's overall cost (flying to Oz, then bike from Melbourne to Brisbane), so I'm hoping that buying a pair of wheels just for touring purposes can be avoided.

Currently, I'm around 145lbs and thinking of taking about 25kg (front and back racks in total) of gear with me. Will my current wheelset survive the tour?

NeezyDeezy

Well, it's not a great idea. I ride on Ksyrium elites, but only on my racing bike.

It may tempting to think that 145+55 = 200, and that there's a lot of 200lb guys riding on these wheels without trouble. But actually riding with a distributed load is a lot different than if all the weight was the rider. It put stress on the bike and wheels in different ways.

I would not do it if I were you, especially given the fact that it will be harder to find the bladed spokes if they break in the middle of nowhere.

Chatbox

I can understand that touring with load can be quite demanding on the frame. But for the wheels (touring or not), there are only two contact points per wheel (weight distribution on the bike from the wheel's perspective will just be 10 Kgs or so extra on each wheel at the exact same contact points), and I think they'll be fine as long as my load on the left and right are similar. No?

You're right about the blade spokes replacement. It's going to be hard finding them in-stock at bike stores while touring. I'm trying to be optimistic here and hope the wheels will not fail, and might order a few spare spokes before I take off.

I might sound a bit stubborn right now (I know), but I'm hoping that someone can tell me why they think the extra 10Kgs load per wheel will suddenly make them unsuitable for biking / touring on (mechanically speaking or from experience).

stedalus

You can probably get away with it, but it seems like a horrible idea. I would definitely get some spare spokes. But, you can get a set of Open Pros or Sports with 105 hubs for ~$200 and sell them when you get back. Compare that to possibly destroying your $1000 wheels, losing time on your tour, and having to buy new wheels anyway at LBS prices.

The reason gear is different is because it's unsprung weight. When you go over a bump, you can absorb the shock with your knees and arms, but your gear is just dead weight. Also, the wheel is subject to side-to-side loads that are not normally present.

Finally, 25 kg is pretty heavy. If you look at some lightweight touring and backpacking sites, you can get that down to 15 kg without much expense or hardship.

Randochap

Not a good idea.

Chatbox

Thanks stedalus! Appreciate your reply. Now that I understand there's a dead weight factor (doh!), sounds like I should avoid using the ES for racks.

A similar question then, what if I decide to tour with a trailer (two wheels), with the wheels centered at the trailer platform? That should ease the load off my ES by quite a lot then (and the ES's responsibility would be to keep the trailer from tipping over), right?

surfjimc

I'm 290 and have been over 300 and I ride Ksyrium SL's. I have a few thousand miles on them and have never had to true them. Kind of an odd choice but I think they will hold up knowing the history of my wheels. Before I bought them I talked to the Mavic guys at the Tour of California. They told me they were much stronger that the wheels I was on; Ultegra hubs, dt 14/15/14 spokes and Open 4cd rims. He thought the Ksyriums would last longer with less trueingand so far he was spot on. I would worry about fixing a broken spoke if you were out in a rural area.

stedalus

I don't have any experience with trailers, so I can't say. I'd take corners gently to keep the lateral stress on the rear wheel low. Depending on how it mounts, I'd consider swapping out the alloy (Ti?) axle for a steel one. And carry some spare spokes. Hopefully someone with trailer experience can comment.

Thasiet

It doesn't work that way. Even if you balance the weight side to side, the panniers have a large moment of inertia which is pretty far out from the centerline of the bike. With this inertia, the panniers resist rocks and leans, putting significant lateral stress on the wheels as well as the frame. The thing about low spoke count racing wheels is that they maintain equivalent vertical strength compared to more traditional wheels by running a much higher spoke tension. The tradeoff, however, is reduced lateral stiffness, which while remaining adequate for racing, is not enough to resist the loads a touring bike will generate.

The only way to build up lateral stiffness is with lots and lots of spokes.

Thasiet

Not at all true. If it were, two nonsense things would logically follow:

1.) you could tour quite happily on ksyriums as long as the roads were perfectly smooth.
2.) in regular road riding, it would be vital to your equipment to go light over every bump and not plod through them. Not saying it doesn't help the wheels out to do this, saying it would be vital, and if you didn't do it, your wheels would need to be touring strength to hold up.

Moreover, going over a bump with arms and knees bent to absorb shock doesn't alter the load the wheels experience. Only going light does.

Don't feel too bad; you correctly identified the lateral loads which are the real problem.

stedalus

I didn't say that the fact that gear weight is unsprung is the only reason it's harder on wheels, so you can't go to those logical extremes. It's one reason, along with lateral stresses and probably others.
Note also that in one breath you say that unsprung weight being harder on the wheels is "not at all true," but in the next you say it helps the wheels to go lightly over bumps. Which is it?

?? The total impulse has to be the same, but you can significantly decrease the peak force on the wheel by springing your weight. This can be the difference between an elastic deformation and a bent rim or broken spoke.

The level of condescension on BF never ceases to amaze me.

Thasiet

Yeah the curry is not settling well with me and the tea didn't help. It's an ugly state of consciousness. You may well be right about the unsprung weight thing; you use big words like "elastic deformation" correctly. Hadn't thought of mountain bike wheels; suspension helps them last longer precisely because it cuts out all the unsprung weight. Of course, that's on singletrack and worse, not chipseal and the occasional pothole.

Deanster04

Agree with you. Enough stories from 200 LB riders who pull a spoke or crack a wheel at the spoke hole. Your idea is best buy a set of 105 or veloce hubs and lace up a set of OpenPros or DT Swiss RR1.1 rims. You could easily sell the setup when you return from the tour. Kryserium wheels are too expensive to use for touring.
Just bought a set of TK7.1 DT Swiss Rims to lace to a pair of Campy Centaur hubs 36H for touring. The wheels are the last thing you want to worry about on a tour. I should mention I am 200 lbs and expect to have a 40 lb load.

Chatbox

Looks like wheels with more spokes is the way to go.

https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/image/64494744

The bike in the photo is pretty similar to mine (Trek 5000 - 2005).

So, question one is solved: I need new wheels.

Now, another question. How's the frame going to hold up (OCLV 120)?

Rowan

A little heads-up on road conditions in Australia. They aren't the greatest. Concentrate on getting strong wheels.

I don't know about your frame (likely it will be fine), but you might need to consider wider profile tyres than 23s. I run minimum for touring/randonneuring 25s, and have at various times gone 28, and now have 32s on my touring rig.

Much will depend on what tyre profile your frame will handle at the junction of the BB and the chainstays, and the top of the fork.

Framewise, your biggest issue is going to be connecting the racks so they are stable.

stedalus

Yikes, I figured you had an nice older steel frame or something. Off the top of my head:

You should be able to get a rear rack on there since it looks like there is a mounting hole drilled into the dropout. As Rowan pointed out, tire clearance might be an issue, but based on that pic it looks like you've got room.

What kind of gearing and fork do you have on your bike? Note that in that pic the guy redid the drivetrain and swapped in what looks like a steel fork for disc brakes. I doubt you'll be able to satisfactorily mount a rack on the stock carbon front fork. If you drop your gear weight, you could go rear rack only.

If you want to go to the trailer route, I would talk to a few trailer companies and see what they say. I can imagine a trailer putting a lot of torque on the rear triangle, and the CF might not hold up to that. But I'm just speculating there.

Chatbox

Thank you to all!

Looks like my best bets right now are either get a touring bike (Trek 520 or something) or get a two-wheel trailer (less torque on the rear triangle compare to one-wheel ones).