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*****ing that shimano will never read about the hubs they should make.

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*****ing that shimano will never read about the hubs they should make.

Old 04-05-09, 09:32 PM
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Acetone Man
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Arghhh can't swear that shimano will never read about the hubs they should make.

So they just announced the new Ultegra groupset.... and I am PISSED that they aren't trickling the new dura ace hub design down to Ultegra.

Getting ahead of myself here. Y'all see, last year the new dura ace had this really cool hub design that allowed for a completely cone wrench free adjustment. It had a 15mm aluminum axle with an axle end that screws on with a pair of 5mm allen keys. Only one cone is adjustable, and it is keyed like the old french headsets to a washer. The washer cannot rotate as the axle end has a flat ground on it where the washer goes. Thus, when the axle end is bolted on, the cone is fixed in place without having to be jammed up against a locknut.

Right off the bat, the design means no more bloody knuckles. Yay! The fact that the cone moves in discrete jumps around the keyed surface of the washer means no more agonized finessing of the adjustment; just move one notch at a time until it's perfect. And, most importantly for touring, no more cone wrenches, and no more needing to remove the cassette if the driveside rear locknut comes loose. That happened to me last summer on tour, lucky was I to be near a decent sized town.

Also very nice from a touring perspective is the stiffer, oversized axle. I want this hub design, with a chromoly axle instead of aluminum, and Shimano's more waterproof MTB seals, in the Deore/LX/SLX/XT pricepoint arena. Such would give 95% of the appeal of a Phil Wood FSC hubset at 20% the price.

But with the new Ultegra announcement Shimano has signaled that they may have no intention of trickling this design down at all! Waaaaaaaaah!

Last edited by Thasiet; 04-05-09 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 04-05-09, 09:43 PM
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I don't get the anger, if this feature is so valuable to you, why don't you just pay the money and buy the model you like?
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Old 04-05-09, 09:48 PM
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At dura ace prices, I'd just buy phil wood instead. Neither is anything I consider remotely affordable.
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Old 04-05-09, 10:12 PM
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slowly upgrade over time?
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Old 04-05-09, 10:15 PM
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White Industries is a good way to go if you can get use to the loudness of the freewheel mechanism. Mount their MTB hubs to a 700C rim with 36 spokes and you have a great touring wheel
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Old 04-06-09, 12:30 AM
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Ppl, I know I'm a market outlier for having a bruce gordon rack and a rear derailleur scrounged out of a dumpster, but the rack was a killer craigslist find and the trend is towards the latter. I do not have money for the nice stuff. $400 dollar boutique hubs like White Industries which aren't even as serviceable as Shimanos are well past the inflection point on the diminishing returns curve. I could never justify so much extra money spent on so little extra benefit, especially in a pursuit that leaves one vulnerable to theft.

It's NOT worth it to me to get these features, that's my whole point. But if Shimano would bring this hub technology to a lower price point, just like I can get a hollowtech forged crankset and hydro discs in Alivio now, that would sure as hell be nice. Their first step would have been to trickle the hubs down to the new Ultegra, and that didn't happen, so I'm pissed. If it happens at all it's going to take at least another year now.
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Old 04-06-09, 03:21 AM
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Hope hubs.
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Old 04-06-09, 05:54 AM
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shameful, but i'm feeling a tiny bit of amusement in reading about someone getting so upset over something they have absolutely no power to influence, kind of like watching someone else's kid throw a tantrum while wearing ear plugs and physically safe from thrown designer toys. not sure what that says about me, but.....
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Old 04-06-09, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Thasiet
At dura ace prices, I'd just buy phil wood instead. Neither is anything I consider remotely affordable.
Consider this: A set of Phils will cost you $400 and some change. By the time you've worn them out, Shimano will have changed the design of the Durace 453 times and you won't be able to find parts for the set that you have after the third design change. Because of the trickle down that Shimano practices, you won't be able to find parts for the 232 Shimano hubs that you've used because you couldn't afford the Durace. At roughly $150 a hubset for the cheap Shimanos, you'll have spent $34,800 for cheap Shimano crap or you could have spent $400 on a true gem
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Old 04-06-09, 09:05 AM
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I use a hard wood dowel drip lubricated with sunflower oil stored in a pigs bladder on each rack. I whittle my own spare parts. HTFU.
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Old 04-06-09, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mattlavallee
shameful, but i'm feeling a tiny bit of amusement in reading about someone getting so upset over something they have absolutely no power to influence, kind of like watching someone else's kid throw a tantrum while wearing ear plugs and physically safe from thrown designer toys. not sure what that says about me, but.....

I clicked on this thread, ready to laugh at some whiner, but after reading the original post, I feel this dude's pain, and the "waaaah" at the end of the post is a nod of recognition to the fact that the post is essentially a tantrum.

Whatever, 3 cone wrenches aren't all that much to carry, and the current style on shimano hubs is fine by me. A few tips on shimano hubs in general: if you need to rebuild a set, don't waste time/money looking for replacement parts. Just buy a new cheap hubset, and cannibalize it. XT and 105 hubs are pretty cheap. Once you buy all the rebuild-specific parts, IF you can find them all, you'll have spent more $$$ anyway.

But, yeah, i'm thinking of getting only very nice shhh in the future, once these wheelsets i'm rolling on now are dead n gone. Still, the Dura-Ace specific system described in the original post does sound intriguing, and it would've been nice to see it on ultegra now and tiagra in 2011...

So, while it won't cause me to throw a tantrum, i do empathise.

-rob
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Old 04-06-09, 09:03 PM
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Well the tantrum was just a rhetorical flourish, people. Cyccommute and Bricky knew how to flow with it and bring their own brand of silliness to the table. Hardwood dowel axle---that sounds pretty damn stiff---but won't you need custom dropouts?

There's nothing wrong with shimano hubs as is, but overhauling them is a 1/2 to 1 hour job, my knuckles ALWAYS get bloodied, and to do it right without lots of annoying iterative trial and error you really need an axle vise. Bringing this design down to the lower pricepoints would make this critical part of bike maintenance accessible to nearly everyone who rides a bicycle. It'll be great to have, and I'm sure Shimano will realize this eventually. But it will take at least another year now. Waaah.
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Old 04-07-09, 10:06 AM
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I have weird dreams of rebuilding the regular cup-n-cone shimano hubs. Literally, I sometimes go through a surreal version of the process in my mind while i'm sleeping. I think it's neat. That being said, the dura-ace system sounds neat, too.

-rob
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