thanks for the photos, I wonder if some of the springiness might be coming from the down tube if it got crinkled too. I had a crack on a down tube on a road bike that felt like springiness.

Good lord! Those pictures!

This is one of those hypothetical situations that we always hear about but never think will happen: traveling overseas, frame damage, steel bike, repair made in the field. So, does this mean if the frame were aluminum, the repair could not have happened?

I know it is "just a frame" but if I had to do that to my touring bike I'd cry. It looks like skin damage, like third degree bad burns! (Do you think I'm attributing human feelings to a hunk of steel?! :o)

I just relived my high school shop class through those pictures.

Best of luck! Please be safe!

I was thinking about this while riding around, I wonder if an acceptable repair could be done with epoxy and fiberglass tape. Sand down to the metal and wrap a few yards of fiberglass tape to a 1/8" thickness over a 6" length. Kayak paddles and pole vaulting poles can be pretty strong, although it probably wouldln't be as good as a skilled brazing job at least one wouldn't be risking a marginal repair.

Then, I'd suggest hanging your bicycle up as a piece of art! This case points to the strategy of buying/using what is sufficient (a "cheap" LHT) rather than what is the "best" (something custom).

People break (or is it "brake"?) kayak paddles all the time (I know nothing about vaulting poles!).

http://i39.tinypic.com/21ep579.jpg


Quite a few of the welded points are gone. Still, the top is welded, and the other side. Ho hum. When I said the top tube felt springy/loose I meant:: When I jerked the handlebars to one side, the whole bike shudders for a while. This does not happen when I hold the top tube steady. I can see the top tube shuddering. Additionally, steering feels a little wobbly.


185km, 2 days left. I decided to keep welding it. Wish me luck.
Tomorrow's headwinds will be horrible, so will be going slowly. And it's going to rain.

LeeG: I hope's it's the downtube, not something worse. Hum.

Oh, I completely agree with you-- I buy my bikes and ride them. Whatever happens, happens. Its just that we LOVE our bikes, too, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with tears. There are risks that come with love.

I'm not sure I follow.

If you mean that a custom would have faired better, I have serious doubts about that since it didn't fail at a weld.

If you mean that it was less painful to have this failure on a inexpensive frame, I agree.

BF123, thanks for the thread and posts,,you're feeding us armchair adventurers. What is your weight on the bike, you and gear?

Hi,

a friend run in Ghana in big pothole and crashed. At home he recognized that the fork was damaged.

I had once a car crash and the frame was deformed (not recognizable). It was in Oman. I gave it to local bicycle repair shop and it work without luggage. But with luggage between 18-20 km/h the steering moved up to 5 cm.

If you're on tour:

Test it. Without luggage all speeds up to 50 km/h, the same with normal luggage, and again 20 kg more as the normal luggage on good surface. Then I would test it on bumpy road.

If the bike runs normal - then everything is fine. If not get a new frame as soon as possible - go there with low speed (max 20 km/h)


Thomas

Read this as:

This case points to option A rather (instead of) than B. I'm recommending A (the "cheap" option).

It's not only less painful, it's cheaper and easier to replace the LHT with another LHT. And putting money into an expensive (custom) frame means you have less funds to deal with contingencies (and the custom frame isn't going to function any better).

It was clear (to me, at least) that we were on the same page! I think, though, we can choose to love our bikes just a little bit less (and that doing so would be useful in some way and, even, liberating).

A better strategy than welding, where available, particularly if you have a weakened tube vs. a severed one is to use tons of epoxy. For instance you can fill the a tube with epoxy, you can squirt expanding foam in little holes from the inside of the frame to isolate the crimp then fill with epoxy. That will stop the tube from collapsing. With even an aluminum frame you can epoxy an external brace of angle iron, and also bind it down with something like twine, glass is ideal, but even a strong twine will work. Use lots of epoxy over and under the twine. It would be worth while carrying epoxy, or if that is easily available, carry some carbon or Kevlar tow. The tensile material needs to be well bound down nice even tight warps. Think of all those bamboo bikes a lot of epoxy and some tow is all that is holding those together.

This is an example of an on the fly spinnaker pole repair, somewhere in the middle I think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx0Rw_RqXCo

I would recommend anyone with this kind of problem in the future at the very least cross-post the thread to the BF Framebuilding forum where people have info on all this stuff.

"Still, there is nothing "underhanded" or wrong with asking what if anything they can do for you unless you lie about the cause."

While steel is pretty well understood, a lot of folks would love to get a product back just to see how it handled a real world load. That would be good for all of us.

"The load that bent the frame was, although large, of the type one might hope a frame could withstand."

Right, unless you ran into a pothole at speed with the bike loaded. Order of magnitude is an important consideration when designing structures. This is zero Surly's fault, and the OP seems to have acquitted himself well too. You want to ride a bike that nobody can break, no mater what. I don't. Though I see nothing in this event to dissuade me from using straight wall aircraft tubing vs. butted on touring bikes.

" And putting money into an expensive (custom) frame means you have less funds to deal with contingencies (and the custom frame isn't going to function any better)."

There is no magic in a custom frame, but having seen this I would feel even better about stuff like using 1.1/.8/1.1 tubes on my custom, or oversized tubes. I weigh a lot more than 70KG and a case could be made that the frame would have failed had I been on it.

Another option would be front end suspension which is normally decried as too heavy, and no good on run of the mill road vibe type issues that people are often concerned with. A few years back Nashbar was selling euro Manitou 700c forks that were left over from some euro touring, bike, and they were cheap, and I was too stupid to buy one. Wouldn't want one for the average outing, but they might be good for the rougher roads.

Better fit where a person needs it is not only more comfortable but it could lead to less fatigue, and better bike control.

If custom means polished lugs, then there is probably little reason, but if it means a perfectly configured ride for you and your use, then of course it would be better, even for this kind of event.

There are options available, though whether they are worth it to a given individual is an open question given how well the LHT did in general. One fun thing I do with my stuff is create lists of past problems with an interest in solving them. One has to be careful not to get too specialized, though, since low probability events can't always be the driver for balanced designs.

I'd say "custom" typically means "polished lugs".

Most people can get away with a standard frame with some simple and cheap adjustments. If you happen to not be one of these people, then it would seem that a custom frame is your only option. Given the extra cost involved, it might be sensible to be very sure that the custom frame is really required. I'd guess that most purchasers of custom frames do not need a custom frame.

A beautiful bicycle is a fine thing but owning such a bike can expose one to extra risks (theft, replacement costs, etc) that people should be aware of.

People are free to do what they want but, in many cases, they choose "the best" not for rational reasons. People are given the impression by marketing (and peer pressure) that they need "the best". That impression is generally (almost always) false.

Tourers at the level of the LHT are nearly "perfect" in an engineering sense because they are more than good enough (they aren't junk) and they are not expensive.

Specialization often means less flexibility. One can drive themselves crazy trying to account for every possibility.

If BF123 had been using a much more expensive (or "loved") frame, he might have been much more reluctant at working through his predicament.

The "cheap" LHT provided extra value because it was cheap (and easily replaced).



(I don't think we disagree, really.)

Didn't do anything after the weld under than giving my bike hourly pep talks.

http://i40.tinypic.com/1zlaa3a.jpg

And they lived happily ever after.



Anyway, now that's over, what parts should I keep? Everything has around 10000km in them. Brooks saddle definitely, the hubs, RD?

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe that should have been clear to me, but it wasn't. FWIW, by less painful I meant that it was "cheaper and easier to replace the LHT with another LHT". So I think we agree completely on all of that.


I agree. Maybe I even go a bit farther. I think that people have an unhealthy obsession with their bikes, going ga ga over their honey brown bar tape or what ever. I guess that is fine if it makes them happy, but it really has little to do with actually touring which isn't about the bike so much as about the experience. Once you are on a decently fitting bike that is reasonably suitable to the task, "improvements" really don't make much difference to the touring experience.

I guess that this is blasphemy to some, but in touring the bike is just a tool. Yes I am attached to the bike I rode across the US, but that is because it is a reminder of the experience, not because it has a bunch of fancy stuff on it.

Glad you made it! Congrats.

Good to hear you made it safe and sound. My son hit a nasty gravel patch going really fast down a hill in Guatemala and I was afraid he might have damaged his bike - but all is well. Dang, it happens fast!

I'd keep everything small and pricey - the derailleurs. Definitely the bar end shifters (even used those sell for $60 or so). The crank arms are small if you take the chainrings off. Stem. Seat post. Brake handles. Brakes.

Now that you mention it, I'd keep practically everything but the things that are probably worn - cassette, chain, cables, tires, tubes.

I'd consider leaving behind the rims and handlebars just cause they're bulky, and if they cause you to have to pay for an extra airline bag it's potentially not worth it. Everything else mentioned above would pack up pretty small.

Very happy you made it to the end safely. I hope you are taking lots of pics - the folks at Surly would likely be interested in the story.

I have been setting on the edge of my seat checking in every day to see if you made it. Those hourly pep talks must have worked! Whew...

Glad you made it.

Congrats on a rather unique adventure (at least the last few days)! You sure have nads.

Keep every single bit but the frame and fork.

Those have to be the worst welds....ever.
Why the hell didn't they wrap some tube or sheet around it?
Why did this Surly frame buckle from a hit like this?

It is odd that the frame buckled like that without breaking the fork or destroying the front wheel, but in accidents weird things do happen.

Thanks for keeping track. =) Happy ending. For me, not the bike. Feel a little sad, had that LHT for less than a year.

Oh, regarding the savaging the parts--I'm just going to sell them, not going to transfer them on a new bike. Which parts then?