theWretched

I'm taking next year off from school and doing a two-wheeled journey through Mexico and Central America (and beyond?), and right now I'm having trouble deciding on how to build up my new Long Haul Trucker frame. I have a full Ultegra 6600 (double, 10 speed) groupset on the cheap from a friend, and I'm absolutely going to build it up with as much of that as I can. I'm usually a fixed/ss rider, so I'm not worried about 20 gears not being enough. Heck, come to think of it I could probably make do with 10...

Back to reality: the only problem is that the rings on the ultegra crankset don't go below 39T, and since the biggest spread in a 10 speed Ultegra cassette is 12-27, I need to get lower gears for loaded touring. What should I do? Can I get a triple crank and just take off the big ring, and work from there? If so, which crankset/bb would you recommend?

Other ideas?

Also, I'm having trouble deciding on the wheelset. I'm 185lbs, and I'll be riding with 20-30lbs of gear through who knows what territory – what would you recommend (I can build it up to save on cost, BTW)?

Thank you for the help,
Henry

The Smokester

I'm having trouble relating your second paragraph with the first.

Barring the new SRAM XX setup which is $$$$$$^google and currently unobtainable, there really are no decent wide-range 10 speed systems. IRD makes 10spd 12x30 and 12x34 cassettes which work after a fashion but don't shift as well as the original Shimano. They are functional so might be worth a try. To use them you need to switch to a long-cage mountain bike derailleur on the back.

Most people go to a mountain bike drive train for lower gearing. I have found that the usual 9spd 11x32 or 11x34 cassette, LX or XT rear derailleur, Race Face Deuce XC triple crank with something like 46/36/26 and a Shimano 105 road front derailleur work great with 600-series 9spd/triple brifters. Or use downtube or bar end shifters.

What size is your LHT? Does it use 26" or 700c wheels?

BengeBoy 

This is good advice.

Sounds like you have a standard Ultegra double crankset. It's not what I would take on the trip you're planning.

rwp

Although a 10 speed ultegra groupset is a really fine setup, it's not at all suitable for touring through central america. My advice: sell the ultegra stuff to a roadie who will be able to use it to best advantage. Then buy a mid-level mountain group, something like Deore LX. Sugino XD triple cranksets are also good and very reasonably priced.

As for wheels, I like XT mountain hubs with Mavic rims. I've used A119 and A319 rims and they both worked out well for not much money. There are plenty of good choices out there. Go with 36 spokes/wheel.

Garthr

Hi Henry,

You just have the wrong parts for the job. If you don't need the cash, just save the Ultegra for another bike. Or sell it.

You have some good suggestions here. I second the Sugino Triple crank. Cannot be beat for versatility and price. You say do not want 3 rings. 3 rings allows for maximum versatility, where as a double set up forces you into some wicked cross shifting. It's fine on a road bike, but I would not want to tour with a double with compact rings like 34/48. I personally like 26/44/48 triples with 12-32 8sp or 11-32 9sp. You have the option of regular step gearing in a given ring, or use the other ring for a half step gear. It works awesome, but most people are stuck in their crossovers. You could do the majority of your riding in just the 44t ring

As much as I dislike Shimano mtb hubs personally, I'll swallow my bias and recommend them for you, as you don't have unlimited funds. I would not recommend you building them, not knowing your aptitude that is. Yes, any monkey can build a wheel, but only a skilled monkey can make wheels that "stand". . . meaning they never go out of true or round. Who doesn't want wheels like that? Not everyone does, but if that appeals to you I recommend a pro builder like Peter White, not JoeBlow at the LBS. You pay a little more up front, but you'll never have a problem with the wheels from a build standpoint. What is that worth to you? Rims, use some Mavic 319's for budget, or Velocity Dyad. Mavic A719 is tops.

Are you set on indexed shifting? If you are be careful with your selection of parts, as these days most are dependent on each other. The latest 10 speed SL-BS79 Shimano Bar-ends no longer offer friction mode. You would need the SL-BS78 or older to use the twin function SIS/friction. It can come in handy if you have SIS problems on the road.

Good luck!

LeeG

I don't see a problem with a double with a fit young person and that light of a load. But I don't see the purpose in doing it with a very narrow chain and 39t limit on the small ring. Personally I'd go for a 34/44 front ring combo and 11-34 eight speed. Thats the same number of gears as a triple 15speed from 30yrs ago when five speed freewheels were standard.

Wheels? 36 hole with any of the tough rims out there. For the money I'd look at the pre-built wheels out there, loosen all the spokes one turn and retrue it. You'll be getting a better deal than building it all up from retail. Inexpensive production wheels with good components will probably have straight gauge DT but I wouldn't worry about that as build quality and riding habits probably make a bigger difference than butted/straight for durability.

theWretched

Is there a really good reason not to use ultegra for this bike? I've heard that it's the most durable shimano road groupset, and I really do like STI shifting. Are some parts likely to wear out if I end up on nasty roads or something?

I do agree that the 53/39 ultegra crank isn't exactly ideal (the gearing is just too high). What if I got a triple crank, like a Sugino xd2 or a Race Face Deuce XC, took off the big ring and otherwise used my ultegra? Would that even work?

The LHT is 62cm, so definitely uses 700c wheels. It seems like XT hubs are a clear favorite for people online, and the Mavic A319s are pretty popular too. If no one has any objections, I'll just do that.

Thanks for the advice, everyone – the bike really is starting to come together.

Garthr

Hey , no one here knows you, or how efficient of a rider you are. Maybe you could ride mountains in 39t ring and a 12-27. People have ridden on fewer and larger gears. Either you don't know your own abilities or you just lack the confidence to ride what you have, otherwise you wouldn't be asking here.

"Most" people use triples and wide cassettes. That doesn't mean you have to. The Ultegra RD is limited to a 28 or 29 cog, just FYI.

Why would you leave off the big ring on a triple? . . . you may as well use it since it's there.
Once you start mixing mtb and road components, it's a slippery slope of what works and what does not these days.

theWretched

Ooops, missed the last two posts.

Gathr - it sounds like the chain crossover that I'd have to deal with if I use a double is the big problem you're highlighting. Would this lead to big problems? And good point about the wheels, I'll think about using a trusted builder. It just might be worth the peace of mind.

LeeG – The chain would be too narrow? Does that mean less durability and good chance of breaking sometime during my ride?

I've been hearing a pretty overwhelming "Sell the ultegra and get a mountain bike drivetrain!" from everyone here. It's what everyone else seems to do, I guess. It's just that i like the STI shifting, already have the parts and I like the idea of a simplified drivetrain (I'll just keep it in the bigger chainring unless I'm tired and on a big hill).

Again, thank you all for the responses.

theWretched

Garthr- leaving the big ring off means that I can use the double brifter I already have. And limit it a 28T cog on ultegra RD? Good to know.

No, I don't know my own abilities – the longest ride I've ever done was a little more than 400 miles, Seattle to Portland and back. Still, I tend to keep up with the roadies around here on my SS and so I doubt I'll need all the gears of a mountain drivetrain, but probably more than straight ultegra. Hence my predicament.

Garthr

Have you considered that Central America and Mexico have big mountains? . . . Long mountain passes, steep grades .. . roads of unknown quality? It's not like riding from Seattle to Portland!

If you want to gauge your sanity for this ride, go for some rides in the mountains in your area. Load up 30 pounds on the LHT and hit the mountain passes with the 39/53.

For comparison's sake, I know of one rider, Lon Haldeman, the guy who has won the Race Across America I don't know how many times. I believe he's ridden it with a single speed. He's a really strong, smooth rider. He did a trip to Peru on a mtb with a 38t ring and 7 speeds. I don't know the cogs. This is an exceptional athlete doing it. I don't know you so I can't judge, but I consider Haldeman a very rare athlete.

If you do change cranks, and use the 74BCD and one 110BCD ring, I'm not so sure your Ultegra brifters will work or not. Your FD likely will not go low enough to use a small ring as your largest. I'm guessing 40/42 may be the smallest you can go without bottoming out on the frame. You'd need a mtb FD to use two small rings, but then your brifters won't work. See where this is going? These days everything is dependent on each other,mtb stuff doesn't play well with road stuff. . . unless you run friction.

So, either you use one chainring, a compact double(34t minimum), a 74/110 triple(24t min), or your current 39/53(38t min).

In short, I think you're asking for problems that need not exist.

valygrl

Yes, you need lower gears, and your ultegra isn't going to get you there very well.

I'm in the "get a MTB drivetrain" camp as well. You'll be amazed how much harder it is to go uphill once your bike weighs 70-90 pounds. And the idea of getting a triple crank and taking off the big ring... why are you even considering that? Why would you remove options that you pay such a tiny weight penalty for? Once you are out there on the road, no one is going to be counting your chain rings and calling you a wimp - that only happens in bikeforums.

When I got a tour bike and switched to bar-end shifters I thought I would miss the STI, but you get used to it in about an hour, it works well in index mode, it can be switched to friction mode if it gets out of adjustment. The MTB drivetrain will allow lower gears both front and back - smaller chain rings in front, long cage derailleur in the back for a bigger cassette.

Also, what are you doing for brakes? you don't want ultegra road brakes on tour for 2 reasons. 1) they are not powerful enough to stop your fully loaded rig and 2) not enough clearance for fenders (if you are using fenders, which I would very lightly recommend). So once you switch to linear pull brakes, you have to deal with the fact that your STI levers don't work with them without extra parts ("travel agent") that I hear (don't *know* this) don't work very well.

And finally, the 10speed drive train is fairly new, and if you need to get spare parts (chain, chainrings) in Mexico, chances of finding parts that work are much better if you use older more standard equipment.

There is no reason other than the fact you already have the drivetrain to use it for touring - so I would respectfully suggest you do something else with that (build a road bike, sell it...) and get a shimano mountain bike drivetrain.

good luck with your trip, keep us posted!

n00bL35

The easiest thing would be to get a compact crankset, which has a 34-50 tooth ratio. That should give you a lot more low end gearing, without trying to mess with a triple with the big ring removed. You can get a FSA Gossamer set with MegaExo BB for around $100 on ebay.

The Smokester

I agree. There is a chance this would work with your present derailleur (haven't tried this combination myself) and you can also experiment with smaller front chainrings like 44/28 plus the 12x27 cassette. This still may not be low enough, though.

BTW, Post #2 gives a formula for getting to a mtb drive train still using brifters (albeit 9spd/triple) although you can't use the Ultegra's.

Also, valygrl makes a good observation that your Ultegra brakes won't work on the LHT, either.

theWretched

Alright, everyone – thank you all for the help.

I've come to the realization that I've been WAY to excited about using Ultegra on this bike. I bought this full ultegra road bike on the cheap from a friend and talked to 2 guys at LBSs who were pretty supportive of the idea, and I just got it into my head that using the stuff I have is the thing to do.

Well, you've changed my mind: If I use the ultegra, I'm going to be limited to a 34T chainring and 12-27 cassette unless I start mixing with MTB parts, and (thanks to Garthr) on reflection I think you're right – that game just isn't worth playing. The new road parts are going to be difficult and expensive to replace on the trip. And Smokester – your compact crank plan sounds appealing, but with a 110 bcd pattern I'd be limited to a 34T chainring (and that's just too big).

The new plan: sell the road bike (money IS an issue) and build it up with whatever quality MTB stuff I can scour from ebay/craigslist/LBSs. I really do like STI shifting for smooth shifting out of saddle (god do I) so I'll try to pick up some brifters from ebay: any advice on this? Smokester, you said that you can do this if you use 9 speed shimano 600 – but shimano dropped the "600" designation and just went to Ultegra when it went to 9 speed. Do you mean 9 speed/triple Ultegra shifters, along with a road front derailer?

Again, thank you all for the help. Looks like you all saved me quite a bit of trouble!

LeeG

you are way too fixated on the build/parts if a road set with caliper brakes and 39t. cog was your first thought for a LHT frame. I'm not well versed on STI but it's not what comes to mind for a bike that might get tossed in a truck or crashed with weight. With touring you aren't flying through a corner in a criterium flicking to the next gear,,you got time to shift,,lots of time.

My two cents is to focus on getting the right sized stem and get the steerer cut. Get the bombproof wheels and build the bike up with rat **** used parts and cheap parts, stuff you find on Goodwill bikes, "hey, what's the cheapest cantilever brakes you have?" Something to break this fixation with gear. THEN after you ride it awhile replace stuff as required.

The Smokester

Refreshing my memory, what we have on my wife's bike is Shimano ST-R600 9spd/triple Brifters for small hands plus the 105 front derailleur and it works with a Race Face Deuce XC triple crank giving her 44/32/22.

On the rear is an SLX rear mtb derailleur with an 11x34 cassette.

This is on a 49cm Salsa Casseroll.

Based on this, I think the an Ultegra 9spd/triple set of briifters and front derailleur with the Deuce XC cranks would work.

kayakdiver

The newer tiagra 9 speed stuff is pretty darn good. It is what I run on my Jamis. Really is not a whole lot of difference in feel over my 6600 Ultegra brifters. Maybe a little but not much. Kind of like the coke/pepsi test. Blindfolded I may get it wrong.

NoReg

"I really do like STI shifting for smooth shifting out of saddle (god do I) so I'll try to pick up some brifters from ebay"

That's something else I would probably not be doing either. Get pushed down into those 20 inch gears with a the wheels on soft ground and big trucks tearing though, you will have plenty of excitement.

I would also reconsifer the weight budget. When I travel, I have all my basic camping gear clothes etc... at under 10 pounds. I am a cut the tooth brush kind of guy (though I can't actually be bothered). That said the racks and bags weigh a bit, I carry totally minimal tools, but it ads, up. A spare folding tire, and innertubes, due to bad experiences. I don't carry any electronics, but that can ad up. Then you have to count on a lot of food and water in certain places, maybe some first aid. The weight can start to ad up.

theWretched

LeeG – Solid advice, I think. Funny, one of the big stimuli for this trip was the simplicity of property I hoped to experience, and here I am worrying about THINGS, pushing for the top of the line road group on this touring bike. But I never wanted to use caliper brakes (instead cantilevers, for the braking power and reach) and always knew that the 39T cog would be too big (hence the thread). So... I think I'm going to skip the "rat **** used parts" strategy, since during this trip I'll be depending on this bike more than I've ever depended on anything – some thought and care to what I build it with does seem important (just better thought and care than I've had up until now ).

Smokester – Thank you kindly, I just might be trying that out. See what I can dig up!

Kayak – Wouldn't have thought, but that'd be an idea. I do worry about long-term durability, though... I mean, I have a friend who rides 5,000+ miles a year on her bike with 9sp ultegra and still hasn't had to replace anything but the cranks. I'm sure the new tiagra feels great, but I'd be a little worried that shimano is more likely to cut some corners with a lower level piece of equipment. I'll talk to the LBS guys around here, see what they think.

Peterpan1 – What do you mean by your first comment? Do you think that the STI would just be a little much for this bike? And I realized you're right on about the weight limit – I wasn't counting racks nor food, just bags, tools, clothes, first aid, sleeping bag/pad/tarp and a camera (based on backpacking trips). Yeah, fully loaded it's probably going to weigh in at something like 40 lbs, good to know.

Thank you everyone for your help! I'll be visiting at least 2 used bike shops around here tomorrow, and I'll update with what I find.

kayakdiver

Well, I can only comment on my personal experience. My shifters are well over the 10K mile mark now and shift like day one. I will never own Bar Ends again. Already done that. They do weight a little more than my Ultegra brifters.

LeeG

I guess what I mean to say is to prioritize your decision making, don't let the price or deal prioritize it. That's why I went to the extreme of lowest cost components. You got a frame, you had a groupo that you considered because it was a good deal but really not functionally ideal. So it looks like you're motivated by getting a deal. No you shouldn't put on dumpster parts, just don't get psyched into thinking $1000 wheels for $600 and $200 derailleurs for $100 is the route for picking parts.

I'm a couple decades behind present usage so brake shifters and 10spd chains are unfamiliar to me but falling and crashing still are still possibilities so I don't see the wisdom in getting the latest gear that might not find immediate replacements in a Target or backwoods bike shop, even if it is a deal. That's the reasoning for 8spd chain/cassette. I really don't know if there's a longevity difference between the two but I was recently surprised at how easily a 9spd chain could get twisted when my 24yr old nephew borrowed my bike and missed a shift throwing the chain between the bb and innercog causing it to get twisted. The chain was already on the short side so I had to get a new chain. Like I said I'm decades out of fashion but it surprised me.

You're kind of in a conflicted territory building up a frame but wanting to save money. The only reason to get a bare frame and not the stock bike is because you already have the parts or money isn't an issue. Honestly if you want to save money and aren't getting all these good new parts at wholesale you might as well sell the frame for a $100 loss and buy a complete LHT. If you are committed to building up from a bare frame with retail purchases you've already decided saving money isn't the highest priority.

Get a good production front wheel and check it over yourself, have fun building up the rear wheel yourself, you really won't save money buying the components but it's the weaker wheel so you should know it, besides the time spent building is better than looking for deals. I trip out on the permutations of parts but honestly people have been trekking for a long time without getting the IDEAL set of components or building up anything themselves.