wentworth

ok. so just when i thought i was set on the lht, my eye wanders to the cc. im 6'4" tall, so my biggest concern is heel strike, size 13, sometimes 14. Anyone with experience on the cc? most here seem to be die hard trucker fans... I dont plan to do any 'epic' excursions. just maybe a weekend trip once or twice a month... 80 miles a day, camp overnight, 80 miles back. at the most, itd be a week of actual touring, once or twice a year. ive never toured before, so any insight is much appreciated. -thanks in advance

El Pelon

What sort of terrain will you be riding? THe LHT bottom bracket will be lower than average, so if you are planning on doing any single track, that might give you pause for concern. Can't speak for whether your clown feet* will create a problem on the CC, but I know that for lilliputians like me, the CC is out of the question as a tourer. Good luck! Both are GREAT bikes.

Luis Vivanco

I'm one of those die-hard LHT folks, I guess...and I use it in conditions very much like you describe. Here's my take. They are both versatile, very strong bikes. Of the two, the bike you'd choose depends on your emphasis. Interested in a day riding/commuter bike that can handle the occasional tour: probably the Cross-Check. Interested in a stellar touring bike that can also serve as a solid and comfortable commuter/day rider: probably the LHT. The Cross-Check is great for commuting and day rides because it's durable and zippy. The LHT rides more like a cadillac, feels heavier but, in my mind, smoother. It's extremely stable fully-loaded. Both work great when you find yourself off-road (the Cross-Check because it's a cyclo-cross bike; the Surly because it's a very similar frame, geometry-wise and materials, to early mountain bikes). A key difference is in the length of the rear chain stays; shorter in the Cross-Check (hence more responsive or 'zippy'), longer in the LHT (more heel clearance when fully loaded with panniers in the rear, much more stable when loaded too). The LHT has lots of braze-ons for setting up racks and such, which the Cross-Check doesn't have (although this isn't necessarily a problem; racks exist that attach to forks, etc.).

It goes without saying, ride them both before making a purchase. You might also troll around the Surly Long Haul Trucker and Cross Check Owner's Group for some perspectives on this issue: https://groups.google.com/group/SurlyLHT

wentworth

wtf is a lilliputian? and i prefer flippers... not clown feet, thank you very much.

spinnaker

You never read Gulliver's Travels?

Ridelots24

As mentioned previously, it depends on how you intend to use it. Im guessing you intend to use Panniers -vs- trailer.

I have a LHT (52cm w/ 26" wheels) and 2 cross bikes (700c's).

I used my Ibis Hakalugi (butted-steel) on tour w/loaded panniers. Bike & gear was 75lbs+. It was twitchy with all that weight on a cross bike...I remember almost falling over standing while climbing a hill. After a few more tours and some visits to Bikeforums I built a LHT. Sadly I have only done 1 tour. But that 1 tour confirmed my choice buying a LHT. The bike was made to be loaded down. Handling was solid and predictable....Sturdy steel, long wheel base, comfortable geometry and good value.

The LHT is also my rainy day trainer..(full fenders)...as luck would have it I rode it the last 2 days. Unloaded the frame feels rock solid....vs...loaded. Forget about keeping my average training pace...I feel slower on the LHT due to geometry and weight...unloaded it is 27lbs. No problems though...I usually pick more scenic rides and the steep grades are no problem with the triple. Also no back tightness after the ride due to the more relaxed position.

I have thought about touring with a trailer & cross bike....but I haven’t. If my child trailer (50lbs) is any indication of what it would be like....I think I'll pass....

I think if you are using Panniers....buy the LHT.

Cheers & Ridelots!

Bacciagalupe

As a Cross Check owner, I occasionally get a little tired of the endless LHT partisanship.

The LHT is optimized specifically for touring; the CC is a little more versatile of a bike. If you're only touring occasionally, it may be a better choice.

I don't think the differences are all that significant; the main one for you is just going to be heel clearance. If you're using smaller bags, that may not be a problem at all, but it is one you should check on with your LBS before committing to one bike or the other.

The main thing to watch for if you get a Cross Check is to get them to lower the gearing, e.g. configure it as a triple or compact double rather than a standard double. Any decent LBS will set it up that way without charging you extra.

alanthealan

Never had that problem on signal track.

El Pelon

You never bottomed out your sprocket on a berm? It's happened to me several times.

LeeG

I have a 56cm LHT with a CrossCheck frame on order. My $.02 is that if you want to carry weight on a shorter chainstay bike that has slack angles and you have big feet put panniers on a front rack with sleeping bag/tent stuff sack on the back rack. You get all the clearance you need and put the weight where it'll be less disruptive for steep uphill riding. For fast riding you can eliminate the panniers and put everything on the two racks. The Old Man Mtn. Sherpa rack would be good.

juggleaddict

the cross check is a great all around bike O:-) but i guess i have the idea that my father has about motorcycles, he only wants a motorcycle if he can hop on it, and it feeeeels to him as if he got the notion to go across the country, he could, right then, at a whim. That's why i want a trucker so bad, because it feels like a solid, never-let-you-down kind of bike

Aloyzius

The cross check looks awesome. And I also really like the pacer, but ultimately I caved in for the LHT because of thoughts like jungeaddict's, and I also like the slack geometry. I still ride my roadie, but these old bones get mighty sore all hunched over on long rides. I wanted something that I could ride until I bonk. And then be able to do it all over again the next day. So far my back hasn't bothered me, and it just feels plush, unloaded. I haven't had it long enough to tour yet, but already I love its versatility, and comfort. I love dirt roads on this thing.

But if I could afford one more bike, it would be the cross check, and who knows? maybe next year. But with all the LHT can do, it isn't going to be a big hurry. I was thinking maybe I'd just buy the frame, and put all my roadie stuff on it.

redxj

I have a friend that has a Surly CC (58cm I think) that wears a size 14 and doesn't hit his panniers (Ortlieb back Rollers) at all. He uses his as a commuter most of the time. If he planned to tour at all I know he would have went with a LHT like I did.

One of my other rides is a 80's Nishiki Seral touring bike with slightly longer chainstays than the CC (17.5" vs. 16.7"). I have never hit my feet on my Ortlieb panniers with my size 50 Sidis and the 180mm crankarms. It could also make a difference with you panniers. The Ortliebs can easily be moved back and forth to were they won't hit.

HardyWeinberg

I think the point of long chain stays is not to move the panniers behind your feet which, people tend to find, is not too hard to do except w/ the very shortest of chain stays, but rather, to move the panniers behind your feet while still keeping their weight centered in front of the rear hub.

carkmouch

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I have a lht and love it. I've never ridden a Cross Check but I'm sure it's a solid bike, and probably a little zippier than the lht.

Like others have said, if you plan on ever doing some serious touring, I'd go for the lht. But otherwise the cross check might be better for normal commuting or road rides. Then again the lht is perfectly suitable for that too.

I dunno, you can't go wrong with either really. Try to test ride both if you can.

surreal

If you want a touring bike, buy the LHT. If you can only have one bike with which to do everything, I'd suggest a cross bike (like the crosscheck) or a full rigid mtb. I've been using my LHT for everything, as it is my most recent acquisition, but it's a tank. I rode my roadie to a bar a few towns over the other night, and i felt liberated from all that truckerish ballast.

You can't go far wrong, either way, but from your original post, i'd suggest the 'check.

hth
-rob

ClydesterD

Due to some (hopefully temporary) glitch I can't "reply with quote," so here's the manual version:

Luis Vivanco said: "I'm one of those die-hard LHT folks, I guess...and I use it in conditions very much like you describe. Here's my take. They are both versatile, very strong bikes. Of the two, the bike you'd choose depends on your emphasis. Interested in a day riding/commuter bike that can handle the occasional tour: probably the Cross-Check. Interested in a stellar touring bike that can also serve as a solid and comfortable commuter/day rider: probably the LHT. The Cross-Check is great for commuting and day rides because it's durable and zippy. The LHT rides more like a cadillac, feels heavier but, in my mind, smoother. It's extremely stable fully-loaded. Both work great when you find yourself off-road (the Cross-Check because it's a cyclo-cross bike; the Surly because it's a very similar frame, geometry-wise and materials, to early mountain bikes). A key difference is in the length of the rear chain stays; shorter in the Cross-Check (hence more responsive or 'zippy'), longer in the LHT (more heel clearance when fully loaded with panniers in the rear, much more stable when loaded too). The LHT has lots of braze-ons for setting up racks and such, which the Cross-Check doesn't have (although this isn't necessarily a problem; racks exist that attach to forks, etc.)."

I agree with him and couldn't have said it better. I have both bikes. The CC is my commuter, and I ride it from semi-rural roads into the heart of downtown Indianapolis, 17 miles each way. I wanted a sturdy, dependable bike that was zippy enough to react quickly to city traffic, and it's been great for that. It's better for that than the LHT is, but if I'm gonna ride 80 miles then I'm taking the Trucker. It has the stock build, and the more relaxed geometry gives it a more relaxed and comfortable ride over the long haul (hey, I just made a pun!). It's a minivan of bikes and is not as zippy, but I don't need zippy on rural roads and 2-lane highways bordered by corn fields. For that I need straight and true and comfortable, and that's what the Trucker is. So which bike you get---you've heard this before---depends on how you want to ride it. Twice a month for 80 miles, I'd buy the LHT for that purpose.

One specific thing I'll mention: I have Berthoud stainless steel fenders on both bikes. I wear size 12 or 13 shoes and have SPD clipless pedals on both as well. I get toe overlap with the CC but not the LHT. It's the one thing that bugs me about the CC, but I've learned to anticipate it. You can decide how important that is to you, but I haven't seen it mentioned in any previous replies.

mrtornadohead

SO I'm going thru this self-contortion myself (LHT vs Cross Check vs various other alternatives) as my prior MO was to pick up an old frame that I got a screaming deal on, and try to make it do what I wanted... not always so successful. Sort of, but then I end up with multiple bikes, and I'm trying (no, really!) to pare down to one main bike.

I like to hit the MTB trails. I have done it with great fun and some success on other road bikes built up 'cross-ish. How does the Long Haul Trucker do on the MTB trails, compared to the Cross Check? I do plan on doing one or several Cross races this year, is the LHT that much of a tank comparativley (I know, the CC is supposed to be none-to-light as well)? If I wanted to do some lightweight/semi-Ultralight touring, how would the CC fare? What is the real difference in the handling of the lower BB of the LHT vs the CC for general road riding?

I know, a million questions...

wentworth

i got the cross check, and i made the right choice. its more than capable on long distance touring, and its a dream on dirt roads. faster, more agile, and not a truck like the trucker... great on dirt roads, paths, and trails. if youre riding legit mtb trails, id get larger tires.

LeeG

it makes no sense to get a LHT given your criteria of a cross race. The LHT is for loading stuff over the rear wheel, the CC is for riding on a range of terrain with a range of tire choices. I can ride hands off on a CC more easily than a LHT.
First time I rode the LHT with some wide touring pedals(spd/platform) on 175mm cranks I scraped a pedal going into a corner. It really is a low bb. My preference for road riding is 172.5mm cranks so I put them on the LHT and the 175 on the CC.

Bacciagalupe

The LHT won't be a great choice for cross racing. The position is more upright, and that will slow you down; iirc it's a little heavier, which only matters because in a cross race, you've got to carry the damned thing.

My impression is you will be best off getting a more race-oriented cross bike. If you're really going ultralight, as long as the bike has a rack-mount you should be fine. Or you can use a trailer and just not pack a lot of stuff.

I would spend a little time in the Cyclocross subforum, see what they say. The stock Surly CC is around 25 lbs, which may still be too heavy for racing. I'm sure you can find something that weighs around 20 lbs and can still be used for light touring.

martianone

+1, had 42 mm tires on mine - it was pretty good on dirt roads and some logging trails.

ambrisdelighted

I've seen a lot of people mentioning the 'slowness' of the LHT and the 'zippiness' of the Cross Check. I'm going to test ride a LHT next week, and I keep imaging she LHT dragging its wheels and not going fast.. at all.
I know I'll know more about this after I ride it, but I was hoping could shed some light on this for me?
Thanks

Amani576

It's certainly not the fastest bike ever made. The difference between my Surly LHT and my Panasonic DX-6000 is night and day. But, if I need it to, my Surly will jump and bolt forward. It's only "slow" to people who are obsessed with racing bikes and want that same feel from their touring bikes that they get on their plastic wonder bikes. It ain't gonna happen, but they won't let it go.
-Gene-