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Help Build Up Miyata 610

Old 09-03-09, 10:27 PM
  #1  
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Help Build Up Miyata 610

New-to-me 1983 Miyata 610. Would appreciate advice on bringing it up to current touring standards. Pics are as I found it on Cragslist ($125), except cheap new Forte tires. Plan to do medium load and length touring at first, then see where that takes me. Rides OK now, on bascially all-original components. I know I want to add new saddle, bar-end shifters, new bars (existing are silly-narrow), and new rear derailleur. Racks and fenders of course. Exisiting 27" Araya wheels probably need to go as well. OK, basically everything but the frame! Recommendations for touring-focused choices appreciated! THX, JP

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42200749@N08/?saved=1

Last edited by jodypitch; 09-03-09 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Added Photo Link
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Old 09-04-09, 12:11 AM
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Hi, I'm am in the process of doing the same with a Miyata 100 (1000 fork). I am building it up with the components I will move to a custom touring frame (Mercian or Bob Jackson) in the next year or so.
I decided to go with Shimano as much as possible as it is easy to get hold off, find spare parts for and 'cos it's what I've always had, though there are most assuredly other alternatives.

Your 610 is a better frame (same as 1000), worth building up imo
  • Wheels: Mavic A719, 36 hole with XT hubs and DT swiss Champion spokes. (bomb proof wheelset for touring)
WARNING! To fit modern hubs your frame will have to be "cold set" (bent and the dropouts realigned) from 126mm to 130mm (for road hubs) or 135mm (for mtb hubs). See Sheldon Brown:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_cn-z.html#coldset
  • Tires: Schwalbe Marathon Plus (front 28mm, rear 32mm) for maximal puncture resistance in the area I'll be touring next (inland California which is "Goathead" country), otherwise Continental Top Touring.

  • Brakes: Dual Caliper long reach (BR-A550) with Ultegra levers. Your 610 has braze ons for cantilevers or V-brakes, right? Shimano have LX V-brakes and levers, or search BF for alternatives.

  • Crankset: LX 44/32/22, Cassette LX 11-28 (check out Sheldon Browns gear chart:
    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    for the gear ratios that suit you)

  • Gear levers: Dura Ace 9-speed bar-cons
  • Front derailleur: LX (has shims for 28.6mm frames), is ok with bar-cons.
  • Rear derailleur: LX SGS (long cage)

  • Chain: LX, but SRAM seems to be a better choice (with masterlink)

  • Pedals: MKS GR9 (with toe clips)

  • Headset: Dura Ace threaded (couldn't get hold of the Ultegra which is basically the same headset but cheaper, the 105 gets pretty bad reviews). Your headset maybe ok with a change of ball bearings and not need replacing.

  • Stem: Nitto Technomic Deluxe, 25,4mm, 100mm (is extra long so handlebars can be raised (haven't ordered this yet, will be keeping the original stem for the time being)
  • Seatpost: Not upgraded yet either, maybe Ritchey Comp V2
  • Handlebars: Ritchey Comp Road Logic Anatomic Alloy Drop Handlebars - 25.8mm Clamp - Black
If your stem, seatpost and handlebars are in good condition and "fit" there's no reason to replace them.
  • Fenders: SKS Chromoplastic 700c, 35mm. Check what size your 610 can take, the narrowest part is just behind the crankset. For my 100, 35 is the max which is tight but ok with 32mm tires ('though with the Schwalbe Marathon Plus 32mm it is such a close fit that I may go without rear fender and have a folded tarp on the rack).

  • Rear Rack: Tubus Logo (I don't have a pannier rack on the front)

Disclaimer: I'm not finished yet so there may be compatability issues I'm not aware of yet :/
Hope this helps, these are just my choices, maybe not "the best", but I tried to do my homework, was helped greatly by the folks here at BF. Any questions or more details please feel free to PM me

Last edited by imi; 09-04-09 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 09-04-09, 12:53 AM
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Hey, nice looking bike! Cantis on an 83? Maybe that isn`t unusual, but it kind of surprises me. I may be nitpicking a little but here, but I don`t think your bike had the same frame as a 1000. I believe the 6xx frames were beefier than the 1000s- that could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your point of view, but either way you`ll have a nice bike.

I`d see first if you have enough brake adjustment for 700c wheels- if so, you`ll have more rim and tire options. If not, it ain`t the end of the world- still a pretty good supply of 27 inchers available. Yes, you`ll need to reset the rear triangle if you want to use a 8-10 speed hub, but that isn`t a big deal. Sheldon Brown explains exactly how to do it on his website (I did mine by his instructions), or you can have a shop do it. Probably not very expensive. If you want a different saddle and bars, I suggest test riding complete bikes that have the components you`re interrested in to get an idea how you like them. They still might catch you by surprise after several hours in the saddle as opposed to an hour or so on a test ride, but at least you`ll get some idea how they feel to you, personally.

As far as the rest of the bike goes, Imi has a nice built in mind for his. If you want to go that way, great, but you could pretty easilly cut the cost by a good margin by going from LX to Deore on the deraillers and/or looking for less expensive rims, tires, crankset. Eight speed costs a little less than nine speed, too. Also, if you want to do it a little at a time, you could most likely use your friction shifters (maybe even deraillers) with a cassette on a new set of wheels while you give your checkbook a breather. Never know- you might even find out you like that set up well enough to keep.

EDIT: By the way, I`m currently rebuilding a 91 roadbike using that "bit by bit" method. Very similar situation- I loved the frame, and all the parts were close enough, but I wanted to upgrade pretty much everything eventually. It isn`t exactly a cheap way to end up with the bike you want, but if it takes a few years to get around to all of it, so what? You`re riding in the mean time. It`s like buying you new toy on lay away and getting to play with it the whole time you`re making payments .

Last edited by rodar y rodar; 09-04-09 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 09-04-09, 01:18 AM
  #4  
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rodar y rodar is correct, the description I have heard of the 610 frame is "same as the 1000 but a bit stiffer", so not exactly the same but splined tripple butted with the same geometry (I guess). The folks in Vintage and Classic may know more.

I also agree that Deore components, 8 speed, cheaper wheelset will certainly give you a fine touring bike. I am going for a "dream build" (within my budget) for future transference to a custom frame and it is definitely not a "minimum requirements" for a touring 610.

FWIW I've had my Miyata 100 for 25 years and have toured with all original parts, Araya wheels etc, slowly upgrading ("bit by bit" as rodar y rodar says it is a fun way to do it) to Ultegra 600 crankset and derailleurs and a Mavic/Ultegra rear wheelset, but still have the friction stem shifters and 7-speed cassette. It is only recently that I decided on a total (and costly) rebuild.

Last edited by imi; 09-04-09 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 09-04-09, 07:28 AM
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Keep those wheels!
Why replace them if they're working fine? (I assume they are)
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Old 09-04-09, 04:10 PM
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Thanks imi, very comprehensive recommendations! You have obviously thought about this a lot, just what I was hoping for. I may keep the stem, but I need a few more miles on it before I decide. Right now, it feels like a little more height AND reach might be good. As for the bars, the exisiting Sakae Randonner (sp?) look cool but are ridiculously narrow in reality (and I'm more used to a wide MTB bar). I will stick with drops, just wider. Also need a new saddle, will see if the Brooks B17 is as good as everyone says.
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Old 09-04-09, 08:31 PM
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Don't be so quick to dump all those old components if they're in good working order. I've got an '82 610 that I've essentially left "as is". I did put a set of vintage suntour barcon shifters on it. I also upgraded the brake levers to a set of cane creek scr-5's (I just couldn't keep the suicide levers). The original suntour half step plus granny works great for touring. I did find a couple of NOS 12-34 freewheels to get a little lower gearing than the 12-28 that was originally on it. The old suntour derailleurs are tough and pretty indestructible. There are also some good choices for 27" touring tires out there. Just don't forget the brooks saddle.
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Old 09-04-09, 10:34 PM
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It sure looks nice and original and it would be a shame to switch out the original parts. I have a 1987 Miyata 1000 and I wish I could have kept it original. The differences between the 610 and the 1000 are minimal with the 610 having a different fork and rear stays - take a look at the old catalogues. (Insert drooling smiliey face)

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https://www.miyatacatalogs.com/2007/1...alog-1983.html

https://www.miyatacatalogs.com/
 
Old 09-05-09, 12:35 AM
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I would check that the rims are in good condition. Maybe ten years ago my Araya rear rim (Miyata original '84) failed catastrophically... While braking down a fast hill the break pad stuck in a crack and ripped away maybe a foot of rim into a spiral of metal! This happened instantaneously, without warning, locking the back wheel up and sending me into a long dovetailed slide, but I didn't crash. Had this been the front wheel it would have been very very nasty... still makes me a bit nervous thinking about it.
Just a thought, those rims are 26 years old and maybe getting thin and have hairline cracks...
After this I got my first Mavic rim
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Old 09-05-09, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for all the input. Question about drop bars: I have seen a lot of photos of touring bikes with drop bars that have a straight/flatter section right below the brake-hoods---as opposed to the more continuous curve on a Nitto noodle or similar fully rounded bar. Not sure if the straight portion is touring-specific, or what. Since I know I'm not comfortable with the original bars on my 610, they will be the first thing to go. Any suggestions on the "straightened" vs. fully curved drop bars, for touring??? Thanks, JP
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Old 09-05-09, 05:34 PM
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I`m not sure if I follow correctly, but I think you mean like this:

If so, I think most mfgs call them compact or cyclocross bars. I know Ritchie calls them "Biomax" and Salsa has a few different names. If they have that little whoopsiedo curve (whether they`re the "compact" or a standard reach and drop), they refer to them as ergo. IN both cases, some love em and some hate em. Whatever bar you get, I really suggest trying to test drive one somehow- it`s not as tough as finding a good match in a saddle, but it can be a little tricky.
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Old 09-08-09, 08:50 PM
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Yep, those are the bars I was talking about. I will need to test drive a few. I notice that "purists" like Rivendell and Velo Orange don't appear to sell an "ergo" model like that, so I was wondering it there are strong opinions among veteran tourers. Thanks again for the input---JP
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Old 09-09-09, 09:23 PM
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If you`re replacing your bar and using the same stem, be sure you get the same size clamp diameter. Up until about a year or two ago, 25.4mm, and 26mm were most common, with a few other in between sisez. Now most bars have a big fat clamp section (31.8mm, I think). If your stem is for 26, you can cut or buy a shim to use a slightly smaller bar diameter, but there`s no way you`ll ever shoehorn a big bar into there. Universal Cycles is a good place to window shop for what`s available because their website divides all the bars into clamp diameters, so you won`t have to click on every single bar and read the specs.
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Old 11-28-10, 09:27 PM
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i just picked up a 610 also. not sure on the year but i think early 1980's.
I am looking to upgrade the wheels to a 700c set. any recommendations for a complete wheelset? I like the down tube shifters and I dont mind friction but would prefer indexed. also i want to get a more modern style brake levers and remove the suicide levers.

are these difficult changes? how cheaply can I accomplish this? with limited mechanic skill is this somethign i could do on my own? any general thoughts, component recommendations or info is appreciated. thx
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Old 11-28-10, 11:32 PM
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Lots of questions on an old thread. I'd start a new thread for your questions over at the mechanics forum or C+V (bring photos).

A lot depends on whether you have canti or side-pull brake calipers, a freewheel or freehub back wheel, if you can do the work yourself or must pay a shop, etc. Nothing on your list is beyond what you would want to know how to do in order to be self-reliant on tour so I'd consider doing the work yourself, just for the education.
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Old 11-29-10, 01:11 PM
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Keep any original component that is in good working condition, and replace anything that is not. That has been my rule with the Miyata 1000 I bought 25 years ago. As things have worn out, I have replaced hubs, wheels, the entire drive train, the saddle, the stem, the pedals, and a few other things. But the brakes, derailleurs, seat post, and of course, the frame and fork are all originals.

Interesting, I prefer the 25-year-old cantilever brakes to the modern cantis on another bike I own. The old ones are harder to adjust, but stop more surely. There were some great bikes in the 1980s!
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Old 01-27-12, 05:43 PM
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Did you end up keeping the original Araya's on there? If so, what tire did you go with?
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