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Dynohubs: Shimano DH-3D72, DH-371, SRAM i-Light 730

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Dynohubs: Shimano DH-3D72, DH-371, SRAM i-Light 730

Old 09-11-09, 01:43 PM
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alelog
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Dynohubs: Shimano DH-3D72, DH-371, SRAM i-Light 730

I'm looking to get a dynohub wheel for my Surly LHT (26" wheels, rim brakes). I realize that much has been discussed about dynamos but I find some contradictory and some stale information, so I'd like to get some input.

My LBS can get me Shimano DH-3D72 (Disc, 36H), 3D71 (Disc, 32H), or SRAM i-Light 730 (non-disc, 36h). I had been hoping to get a Shimano DH-3N72 (36-spoke, rim-brake, QR), which I could order on my own, if necessary.

Do you have any input on the following questions:

1. Are there significant reasons to avoid the D (Disc) versions of the Shimano hubs, if I never intend to use disc brakes? Perhaps, if the disc mounts are well protected, it doesn't matter?

2. I read that 3N/D71 and 3N/D72 have the same weight, drag, etc. in some places (e.g., http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/shimano3n70.asp) and that they're significantly different in others (e.g., http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/l...g/shimano.html). The 72s are much newer, aren't they? Any new tests or personal experiences out there?

3. I read that SRAM i-Light 730 has very high drag with lights off (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum..._id=14520&v=2a) and that it is almost as good as the SON in all categories (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=412394). If it's the latter, the SRAM is a very good option (it's likely cheaper than Shimanos). If it's the former, I'd rather keep hunting for the elusive 3N72 or deal with Discs.

4. Any good reason to wait for 3N80 to come out in 36-hole version vs going for 3N/D72? (Any hope of that?)

Thanks a lot for any input or advice!
-Alexey
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Old 09-11-09, 02:22 PM
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I can only answer question 1 as I don't own either. Front disc hubs are usually slightly dished to accommodate the rotor. Non disc hubs have no dish thereby build a stronger front wheel. My suggestion is to only get a disc hub if you intend on using disc brakes.
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Old 09-11-09, 02:59 PM
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I've got a 32h rim brake Shimano Dynohub [can't recall the designation] on one touring bike and a 32h 3D71. I'm not using the 3D71 on a disc brake bike, but might do so hence want to have all my bases covered.

I like the Shimano dynohubs - I used to have a SON disc brake dynohub which was very nice, but didn't want to spend the $$$ on getting a new one after I foolishly sold the old one. To my surprise the Shimano dynohubs have worked great and I don't notice any difference [so far].

The difference in a disc vs. non-disc dynohub are slight, but if you are not in a rush I guess you might as well just wait until you find a rim brake version. If you were in a hurry I don't think you'd see much practical difference between the disc brake and rim brake hubs so I'd just get the disc brake version.

Here is some test data that is a bit out of date, but still interesting to read.
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Old 09-11-09, 08:36 PM
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Thanks for the input, matchy99 and Vik! I see the point about trying to avoid dishing. I had a little mis-communication with my LBS (regarding whether or not my email to them made it before their deadline for a weekly QBP order). As a result, I will soon be the proud owner of a 3N-D72, after all. Hopefully, I will never experience any problems with the wheel.

I was in a bit of a hurry, as the days are growing shorter, and I'm tired of constantly worrying about batteries, so I don't regret the choice much.

Thanks again,
-Alexey
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Old 09-11-09, 08:47 PM
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Just like they said- the only real harm in getting a disc hub is that it adds a little dish. That and the fact that I`m a bit miffed by the whole discification of mtbs that I really try to avoid anything disc related if at all possible If you can`t find a nondisc hub that suits your needs, the disc model will probably be just fine.

I had a 3N71 (32h) on my main ride for about two years and I loved it, though I can`t compare to anything else since it`s the only dyno I`ve ever used. I sold that bike, hub and lights and all and just finished building up a 3N72 (32h). Today was the first time I rode it and I still need to rig up a light mount, so still no good comparison to offer, but they pretty much look the same except the graphics and I expect little or no discernable difference in performance. According to the specs, the 72 is slightly lighter than the 71, but I didnt weigh either of them, so I can`t confirm. I do love dynos fr lighting, though- can`t waight for daylight savings time to end!

My current hub came from Peter White about a month ago- no disc. Can`t say for sure, but I think Harris has the 36h in stock. And if you can`t find what you want in the US, don`t be too hesitant to order from Chain Reaction or SJS. I bought a set of stoker cranks from SJS last year and it was a completely painless transaction, shipping not too awful, and my order came in long before I started wondering where it was.

EDIT: whoops- you bought a hub while I was typing. That one ought to do the trick. What light(s) are you going to use? Enjoy!
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Old 09-11-09, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
Just like they said- the only real harm in getting a disc hub is that it adds a little dish. That and the fact that I`m a bit miffed by the whole discification of mtbs that I really try to avoid anything disc related if at all possible If you can`t find a nondisc hub that suits your needs, the disc model will probably be just fine.

I had a 3N71 (32h) on my main ride for about two years and I loved it, though I can`t compare to anything else since it`s the only dyno I`ve ever used. I sold that bike, hub and lights and all and just finished building up a 3N72 (32h). Today was the first time I rode it and I still need to rig up a light mount, so still no good comparison to offer, but they pretty much look the same except the graphics and I expect little or no discernable difference in performance. According to the specs, the 72 is slightly lighter than the 71, but I didnt weigh either of them, so I can`t confirm. I do love dynos fr lighting, though- can`t waight for daylight savings time to end!

My current hub came from Peter White about a month ago- no disc. Can`t say for sure, but I think Harris has the 36h in stock. And if you can`t find what you want in the US, don`t be too hesitant to order from Chain Reaction or SJS. I bought a set of stoker cranks from SJS last year and it was a completely painless transaction, shipping not too awful, and my order came in long before I started wondering where it was.

EDIT: whoops- you bought a hub while I was typing. That one ought to do the trick. What light(s) are you going to use? Enjoy!
Thanks a lot for the input. Yes, I probably should have held out for non-disc but I'm happy enough with my choice. Actually, Harris was out of stock for 36h 3N72s but wiggle.co.uk had them for a good price with free shipping. However, after torturing my local guy with catalog searches, I wanted to get the hub through him.

As to the lights, I'm making a giant spreadsheet to decide on all the choices. My lighting setup is mostly for commuting--none at high speeds. I have some dark roads to travel but I'll never break 15-20 mph coming home. With that in mind, I've decided to go with LED (for a wider beam and not to worry about bulb burn out). I know that I'll need a switched version, and I plan to get one with a standlight just in case. I don't think I'll go for anything much above $100, so Supernovas and some other great lights might be out of my range. This is about as far as I got with the light decision. :-)

-Alexey
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Old 09-11-09, 09:59 PM
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Most are switched, but if you happen to find one that isn`t that`s probably OK too with LED. I started with a plain old round Lumotec halogen and it was pretty good (slow speed comutes). Then I bought a refurbished Inoled 10+ or about three times the price of the little Lumotec- the Inoled is bulkier, probably a little heavier, lighting is different from the Lumotec, but really not any better IMO. The only reason I never switched back to the Lumotec was that I could leave the LED Inoled on day and night. Now I`m jonsing for a Cyo at ~$108. Just might buy one even though I really don`t need it. As an in between, the Fly IQs get rave reviews for around $70 to $80. Anyway, tons of info on all that over in "Commuting" and in "Electronics", as you`ve probably noticed.
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Old 09-11-09, 10:35 PM
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I'm with RYR, get the B&M IQ Cyo. You can find them for about $100.
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Old 09-11-09, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowRoller View Post
I'm with RYR, get the B&M IQ Cyo. You can find them for about $100.
Yes, I was starting to come to the same conclusion, except that I'm leaning towards B&M IQ Cyo R (the slightly dimmer one but with good lighting close to the bike). Any thoughts?

Once I make up my mind about the R option, I'll need to deal with mounts. The default one will likely not fit under my crown race but over my fender, so I might have to wait till Peter White returns on 9/23 to figure out the right mount. I'll likely need the cantilever-brake one but I wonder if a fork-side one would work for Cyo.

-Alexey

P.S. I was so touring-focused in recent months that I didn't realize that this question likely belongs on the Commuting forum. Oh, well.
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Old 09-12-09, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by alelog View Post
Yes, I was starting to come to the same conclusion, except that I'm leaning towards B&M IQ Cyo R (the slightly dimmer one but with good lighting close to the bike). Any thoughts?

Once I make up my mind about the R option, I'll need to deal with mounts. The default one will likely not fit under my crown race but over my fender, so I might have to wait till Peter White returns on 9/23 to figure out the right mount. I'll likely need the cantilever-brake one but I wonder if a fork-side one would work for Cyo.

-Alexey

P.S. I was so touring-focused in recent months that I didn't realize that this question likely belongs on the Commuting forum. Oh, well.
+1 on all the comments, looks like you figured it out. I have the IQ Fly, the entry level for me today would be the Cyo, the Supernova E3 fits my needs better. Mounting is my biggest problem. Last winter I mounted the FLy on top of my front rack, just drilled a hole in the top plate. It looked and felt exposed but worked great. I just changed racks and mounted it on the fork crown with the mount it came with. Not a good fit with fenders, it has a slight rub on the lower headset bearing holder and has a pressure point on the fender. the fender comes off after it freezes up for the winter . I don't know if it is just me but the fork crown mounting for fenders and lights has always been a lot work. I switched my brakes to V-brakes and that helped with the mounting options .. and it stops much better :-), its a LHT.

I think Peter White has it figured out, next time .... :-)
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Old 09-12-09, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by alelog View Post
Thanks a lot for the input. Yes, I probably should have held out for non-disc but I'm happy enough with my choice. Actually, Harris was out of stock for 36h 3N72s but wiggle.co.uk had them for a good price with free shipping. However, after torturing my local guy with catalog searches, I wanted to get the hub through him.
I don't think you'll have any issue with the disc dynohub. Rear wheels survive a lot of abuse with a ton more dish. And who knows you might find yourself wanting to use the hub on a bike with disc brakes at some point.

I use a LED headlight and like it a lot. It's nice not to have to worry about bulbs burning out. I leave it on 24/7 as a daytime running light.
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Old 09-12-09, 02:35 PM
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Normally anything that survives MTB use is good to go on a touring or commuting bike durability wise. I still prefer non-dished hubs because of one less spoke size. The idea there being that you can carry less sizes and cover in more depth when on the road. It wasn't until I ordered my White hubs that I came across another issue - Man, all those spoke sizes are expensive! Buy a box of 50 to get 18, and it ads up. Oh well, cheaper than having the LBS build it.

I think the dish is more than it looks because the rigging angles are based on a narrower hub than in the rear, Still, strong enough I am sure,
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Old 09-12-09, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1 View Post
Normally anything that survives MTB use is good to go on a touring or commuting bike durability wise. I still prefer non-dished hubs because of one less spoke size. The idea there being that you can carry less sizes and cover in more depth when on the road. It wasn't until I ordered my White hubs that I came across another issue - Man, all those spoke sizes are expensive! Buy a box of 50 to get 18, and it ads up. Oh well, cheaper than having the LBS build it.

I think the dish is more than it looks because the rigging angles are based on a narrower hub than in the rear, Still, strong enough I am sure,
Thanks everyone for more info! I'm pretty much over any inhibitions about the extra dish at this point; I'm looking on the bright side: I could get a disc brake for the front. :-)

Peterpan1, the two spoke lengths on the front is an interesting subtle point. While my LBS will build the wheel for me, so I don't need to worry about getting different spoke lengths for building, I will be concerned about bringing spare spokes on trips. I've had two spare spokes mounted on my LHT for a while but your point just made me realize that most likely I had no spare spoke for the cassette side of my back wheel. (Of course, without a way to get the cassette off, I wouldn't be able to replace a broken spoken anyway--need to get one of those Kevlar-string spokes.) Anyway, next time (if there's next time), I'll insist on a rim-brake version. :-)

Regarding the light, I'm still really torn about the Lumotec Cyo vs Cyo R (or Cyo Sport vs Cyo Nearfield, as they seem to be called in Europe). I've found only one or two comments here on the Cyo R--everyone seems to have the brighter version. The Cyo is brighter (60-70 lux at my speeds) but has a dark area 1m-4m in front, while the Cyo R is a bit dimmer (40-50 lux at my speeds) but illuminates the area close in front.

With my commute--usually under 15mph (~25kmh) and almost never exceeding 20mph (~30kmh), some unlit rural roads, with occasional potholes and glass to worry about--I feel that the less bright light with close-up illumination (i.e., Cyo R) is the right choice. I'm just nervous about later regretting not going for the brightest option.

Perhaps, I should post a new query on Commuting, in case more people tried Cyo R lately.
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Old 09-12-09, 11:39 PM
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Is there enough dish to a disc front wheel that both sides have different spoke lengths? My Nexus nondisc rear was dished, but such a small amount that both sides worked out to the same spokes.

I know how you feel about that Cyo/Cyo R dilema. The studly version sounds, well... studlier. But in all honestly I just don`t ride that fast, so pothole vision would probably be more better for me. Why do people have to go complicting my life with options? Yeah, go ahead and search on them- there are a lot of threads dealing with Cyo in general, though not so much as to which version. There has been discussion in Electronics, and L.D. Cycling besides just in Commuting.
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Old 09-13-09, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1 View Post
Normally anything that survives MTB use is good to go on a touring or commuting bike durability wise. I still prefer non-dished hubs because of one less spoke size. The idea there being that you can carry less sizes and cover in more depth when on the road. It wasn't until I ordered my White hubs that I came across another issue - Man, all those spoke sizes are expensive! Buy a box of 50 to get 18, and it ads up. Oh well, cheaper than having the LBS build it.

I think the dish is more than it looks because the rigging angles are based on a narrower hub than in the rear, Still, strong enough I am sure,
The OLD on a front hub is narrower than on a rear hub but the flange to flange distance is usually greater at the front than the back.
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Old 09-13-09, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
Is there enough dish to a disc front wheel that both sides have different spoke lengths?
I used the same size spokes on both sides of the only front disk wheel I have built.
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