NeilGunton

I know this rim vs disc brake discussion has been done to death a thousand times, but I am in the process of ordering a Co-Motion Americano Co-Pilot, and it has the option for either disc or rim brakes:

https://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/americano.html

Which option would you get? And why?

Thanks!

Neil

Cyclesafe

Avid BB7 cable actuated mechanical road disc brakes with 203 mm rotors.

Why? In no particular order.....

1) When heavily loaded and rapidly descending, you won't have to worry about heating up rims so much that you blow a tube (issue with tandems)
2) Slush will not collect on your brake pads preventing you from stopping (happened once to a touring partner with rim brakes)
3) Mud on your rims will not prevent you from stopping (hasn't yet happened to me, but it could!)
4) Your rims will not wear thin from brake pad friction (the rim goes hopelessly out of true by hitting potholes and debris first)
5) Brake pads do not degrade from sun and age - getting so hard that they stop working
6) When riding unloaded and still passed by little girls on Schwinn Stingrays with plastic streamers, everyone will know that it's OK because you're not on a road bike
7) It's a conversation starter with roadies after they ask you how much your bike weighs and how many miles you do in a day
8) The calipers and rotors look far more elegant than rim brakes. This is the main reason I have them.

Including the beefier fork, the extra bits on the hub, the rotor, and the caliper they are doubtlessly heavier than any V-brake or canti. They are more expensive and the brake pads for them are more expensive than rim brake pads. But they still look marvelous.

Doug64

I'd be estatic with an Americano even if it didn't have brakes!
I'd go with the rim brakes because I believe maintenance and finding repair parts on the road might be easier. However, I don't have any experience with disc brakes so a lot of my thoughts are pure conjecture. Cantilever brake parts are relitively simple and don't often fail. If they fail, parts are relatively plentiful (almost any brake pad will work). The same goes for rim and hub failures. Depending where you are, it may be easier to find a repacement wheel for a bike with rim brakes.

AsanaCycles

+1 on the disc brakes
BB7's
I've been using Avid Mechs for about 10 years now.
wow, i can hardly believe its been 10 years!

norcalhiker

I just went with rim brakes on my build. Because, well, because I had to make a decision!

seeker333

I prefer disc brake over canti and vees. Easier to set up and maintain. Better stopping in rain. 2 lb weight penalty. Pads cost about the same but seem to last longer on disc. No rim wear. Required front wheel dish compromises longevity somewhat.

How do you mount racks on an Americano with discs? The brake caliper usually interferes with most std racks. i assume you know this and CoMo has a neat fix...

BTW, that straight fork is probably going to beat you up a little (or a lot). Straight steel forks are ideal for transferring road shock to your hands, wrists, elbows. Does CoMo have an alternate disc-capable fork with more traditional curve (they curve for a reason, not just for looks).

Not trying to piss on your dream Neil, but that's a lot of money to be disappointed, and IIRC you've been down that road before.

NM, just found the Pangea. I like the rear brake mount - nice custom dropout. No rack / fender interference.

BTW, for about $1300 less than a CoMo Americano frame you could buy a LHT, then add a Kona P2 fork and an Avid road bb7. You won't miss the rear disc brake. You can spread the LHT dropouts and fit your own built dishless wheel.

I don't see the extra value in their product - it's essentially the same as a LHT. Are you doing all this just for the S&S couplers?

Why not go ahead and get the rohloff hub and belt drive - no more chain maintenance!

No answer expected, just sharing my observations.

NeilGunton

Thanks for the feedback. I know either will work just fine, but the choice has to be made.

I didn't know the disk brakes had 203mm rotors... aren't they usually something like 165mm? It doesn't mention the rotor size anywhere on the spec page, is that just how big the "road disk" version are usually?

On the price, I am getting a "professional trade" deal in return for an ad on crazyguyonabike. I've wanted an Americano for a while now, so I approached them about this. Primarily what attracted me to this bike specifically was the tandem grade tubing, and 145mm tandem rear wheel - these guys started out building tandems, and this is basically a single tandem. I have had shimmy problems on all my touring bikes, and I believe it's related to the frames being too flexible when loaded up, and so I wanted the strongest touring frame out there. I think the Americano qualifies (and no, plugging Co-Motion is not part of the deal I got - it was simply ad-for-discount, and I don't do paid plugs... all this is just me talking on my own account).

There are lots of nice touring bikes out there... this is the one I want.

I think the S&S will be useful, not so much for airline travel, so much as making it easier to fit the bike into normal size cars, and perhaps taking it on other transportation like buses and trains. Simply being able to break the bike in two, and undo a couple of cable splitters, makes it much more manageable, and only takes a minute or two, tops. You don't need to do the whole padded case breakdown every time to benefit from this. Being able to bung it in a rental car in a pinch may be useful, and who knows if I actually go abroad at some point, at which point I'll look into the cases/boxes thing.

I'm still stuck between disc and rim brakes, though! Seems like a stupid, trivial thing, but the choice has to be made, and I'm having real trouble with it. Rim brakes are good because they're simple, and strong enough, and less complicated, and I would still have the option of fitting my favorite rear kickstand (the Greenfield), and the front wheel wouldn't need to be dished (I think the rear wheel, which is non-dished due to the 145mm width, doesn't need dishing even for the disc brake). I've had pad rubbing issues with the two disc-equipped touring bikes I've had. However disc brakes, properly set up, are supposed to be very trouble free usually, and strong, and good in the wet, and no wear and tear on the rims. It's really a tough call, because there's no clear winner... either would work very well, no doubt about it, which just makes it harder to choose...

Anyway, thanks again! All input much appreciated, I'm going up to Eugene to do test rides on Thursday.

Neil

AsanaCycles

hey Neil: I remember a conversation we had one day north of Orick

disc brakes:
rotors come in various sizes, 160, 165, 185, 203mm
caliper adaptors come in various sizes to match rotor size

the disc brake tabs on a frame are either:
IS = International Standard
PM = Post Mount

most of the time, frames and forks use, IS (international standard)
Manitou forks use PM (Post Mount), some frame mfg's use PM

I think "Road Disc" typically the rotor is 140mm
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...81&category=19
but really what "road" is referring to is the "road lever"
which therefore, is a reference to the leverage ratio that is in the caliper.

meaning... Road Disc, the rotor size is 140mm, and the actual caliper has a different leverage ratio, which is intended to match a "Road Lever"
as compared to a MTB lever.

to further confuse the issue...
you may be familiar with road levers being used with V-brakes
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=1595
to have proper leverage, the use of a "Travel Agent" is typical
which simply changes the ratio of lever pull...

blah blah blah
i bring this to light, simply to give you a visual of what is going on.
that is...
a visual aid, to de-mystify the inner workings of a "road disc" brake system.

when you learn how to use BB7's, and work on them
you'd be surprised
they are actually easier to set up than V-brakes, or cantis

jabberwocky

Road discs are usually 160mm (6"). Sometimes the rear is 140mm. Both set of road discs I've had (on CX bikes) were 160mm front and back.

Discs are available in several sizes. The 3 popular ones for MTB use are 6" (160 or 165mm), 7" (180mm or 185mm) and 8" (200 or 203mm). Some weight-weenie brakes are available with 140mm rotors, and some DH brakes are available with 9" rotors (though both are fairly rare). A larger rotor gets you additional power and a lot of fade resistance (they heat up slower and cool down quicker). I'm honestly not sure how necessary that is for touring; my experience with larger rotors is on my downhill race bike (which uses Avid Codes, which are 4 pot hydraulic discs with 8" rotors front and rear).

One thing to be aware of is that larger rotors transfer a larger force to the frame/fork. If you intend on using a larger disc, I'd clear it with the frame mfg first. Some MTB forks are rated for certain size discs (i.e. using a 203mm rotor might void the warranty).

rockdog

Why limit yourself? I ordered my Americano frame set up for both. it has rim brakes on it right now but if I ever get to do the kind of touring the bike was intended for I think it might be nice to set it up with disk brakes and carry a set of cantis with me in case of emergencies (seems like they would take up very little space in a pannier). The rack thing (rear rack anyway) is an issue with the disc mounts on the Americano but a Tubus Cargo/Cosmo will defiinitely fit with no problem.

truman

Beyond what's already been stated in favor discs,I'll add that if you should happen to whack a wheel way out of true, with discs you can still ride the bike and still have brakes. With cantis, you'll have to release the straddle cable to let the wheel turn. Also BB7's are VASTLY simpler to adjust quickly and change pads on than either set of cantis I have in use now. My custom mixed surface tourer will be disc-only. I look forward to eliminating the cable hanger up front, so that I can stabilize the load on the front rack platform against the head tube.

NeilGunton

I believe the Avid Single Digit 7 that Co-Motion uses for rim brakes are in the linear pull category rather than canti, and as far as I know this is equivalent to V-brake. If I got disc brakes on this bike then it would certainly seem to make sense to also include the rim brake mounts, for flexibility should the need arise.

I'll definitely be getting a kickstand plate (they do a nice CNC machined one, apparently), so I can use the ESGE two legged stand without damaging the chainstays through clamping. I like the Greenfield rear kickstand, but recently I've been liking the 2-legged ESGE because it lets you work on the drivetrain, use the pedals, and remove the rear wheel without having to lay the bike down. So that would ameliorate the inability to use the Greenfield somewhat. I need to determine why the pedals interfere with this stand on bikes like the Novara Safari, but not on others such as my Salsa Fargo. Hopefully the Americano BB/crank setup will be more like the Fargo.

I'll also be test riding the Pangea, since this is basically the 26 inch wheeled "expedition" version of the Americano, with a more standard 135mm rear triangle:

https://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/pangea.html

While I think I prefer the rolling characteristics of the 700C wheels for most road travel, there's still a possibility that I might go for the Pangea if there turns out to be toe overlap with the Americano in my size - yet to be determined. I know many don't mind toe overlap, but it bugs me, and can be an issue when pedaling up steep switchback turns.

Regarding the "harsh" ride that some are suggesting will result from the beefy fork - I haven't heard anybody talk about that with regard to the Americano. Everybody who has one seems to love it, as far as I have heard. The strong point of this bike is the quality of the frame. I think a lot of people seem to assume that one frame is much like any other, especially as they all look pretty similar. But I don't think that's true. Although the Long Haul Trucker is a very nice frame, I think if you ask any framebuilder (and I've talked to a few) to make a comparison then they will tell you that the Americano frame is much higher grade, and stronger, than the LHT. I'm not trying to put down the LHT here; of course, if the LHT does the job for you then there's not much reason to go for the Americano. But I have had problems with flex and shimmy with every touring bike I've owned, and I think I'd appreciate both the extra strength and the custom fit that comes with the Americano. We'll see how it goes - hopefully this will be "the one"!

Ok, so back to the brake question - I was all set to just go with rim brakes, but now I'm back on the fence. Given that the bike will be pretty much the same in terms of forks etc with or without discs, can anybody give me a reason *not* to go with the Avid BB7? Is there any way that the rim brakes are actually superior?

I remember on my trip in 2008, going down a very steep hill in Deadwood SD, in freezing rain (turning to snow), and my Novara Safari started to shimmy badly whenever I applied the front brake. I thought at the time that this might have been due to the fact that the disc is only on one side of the fork, so the braking force is not even. I have seen disc forks that are built more beefy on one side to counteract this effect (the Tout Terrain bikes, for example). I guess if the fork isn't beefy enough, and the discs are not completely evenly adjusted, then maybe this could produce a shimmy through fork flex. I'm hoping that this wouldn't be an issue with the tandem fork on the Americano, but this is the kind of "gotcha" that I would like to avoid if possible. The OCD side of me would certainly appreciate knowing that I'm not wearing the rims away a little bit every time I apply the brakes. Any other issues people have experienced with disc brakes?

Discs are supposed to put more stress on the spokes than rim brakes, but has this ever been an issue in practice, with well-built and properly stress-relieved wheels? I'm not particularly worried about the wheel being forced out of the dropouts either, that issue seems to have been solved for a while now. Given that you can very easily carry a few spare pads with you in your tool bag (they are very small and light), is there any reason NOT to go with discs here?

The rack issue isn't an issue with discs on this bike - people use the standard Tubus racks without any problems. It's been thought through pretty well, the bike's been around a while.

Thanks again,

Neil

seeker333

Neil, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the discs. CoMo probably uses 160mm Avid bb7 road version. It's identical to the std mtb bb7, just has different leverage to compensate for the short cable pull of road brake levers. Uses same pads as mtb discs, available everywhere, which is the only wear part on the brake. On the same subject, I've never had a wheel longevity issue related to disc brakes. I think this is an issue for extreme duty only, like downhill racing or perhaps tandems. I do wear out rear wheels, but not fronts. The rears tend to develop cracks in the rim from fatigue and spoke tension, typically after 5,000 miles.

Good deal for you with CoMo, now it makes some sense. I wonder if the thicker-walled tubing will help much with your shimmy problem, or if a simple reorganization of your gear on the bike wouldn't alleviate the problem. I don't think shimmy has much to do with the fork. It's usually brought on by the load and it's location in the rear, not the front end. People think the front end is the problem, naturally, but it's usually not. I can make my light pickup truck shimmy by loading a pallet of bricks in the bed. I have a commuter bike I can induce shimmy in by a. mounting a lightweight 26x1" tire (a heavier tire dampens oscillation) and b. sliding all the way back on saddle and tucking into an aero position. It takes both of those conditions to induce shimmy on that bike.

I wasn't joking about the Rohloff hub and belt drive. It requires a custom crank/belt pulley, custom frame to allow belt changes (a break at the dropout), the Rohloff hub, an eccentric bottom bracket to tension the belt, custom housing guides and some provision for shifter mounting on a drop bar. Evidently CoMo has some experience in this area (pic below). Although it would be expensive, it would eliminate all? drivetrain maintenance and give you a strong rear wheel (dishless). Now put this on a Pangea 26" wheeled frame and you'd have an exceptionally fine touring bike. Personally, I'd throw money at this before the frame couplers.

Niles H.

The options I would choose and why: I would choose XTR cables. Why? Several mechanics told me that the feel is significantly better, and that performance is also enhanced. Using them is one of the easiest ways to improve braking performance. Avid also make some excellent high-end cables; but Shimano XTR cables seemed to get the widest and surest applause.

I would choose ceramic rims. Reason: you don't have to worry or have that feeling that you are grinding away your rims. There are old reviews of ceramic rims that describe issues with eventual chipping. Mavic improved their ceramic coated rims a few years back in response to these complaints. It was not a universal problem anyway; but the rims are now more chip resistant.

I would check into and iron out the availability issue on the pads, and carry some extras. Pad wear is faster, but rim wear is much slower. Special pads are required. They are much harder than standard (non-ceramic) pads. Pad availability can be a problem in some areas; but I would solve this by carrying extras and thinking ahead, and arranging for mail order delivery if needed. I would find a couple of suppliers first, so I would know where to get them.

Also, ceramic rims (at least the Mavics I've seen and used) look cooler than the uncoated rims. Small point, perhaps; but on some bikes there is a definite aesthetic plus going on.

I would have the bike set up to accept both rim brakes and disc brakes on the front, and forget about discs in the rear. Reason: I use the front brake way more; Sheldon explains the physics of front v rear.... And the front brake is the one I rely on when I really need to stop quickly. Discs seem unnecessary in the rear; I would appreciate the weight savings and simplicity of using good rim brakes in the rear instead.

I would do some more research on the best of the rim brakes. Avid SD7s seem excellent. There are a couple of other Avid rim brakes that may be just a notch better, though. SD7s are better priced, and nearly as good. If I were going all out, I would probably go for something like these:

https://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/brake...70_108crx.aspx

The SD7s get a higher average rating; but there are a couple of reviews that skew the average rating for the 17 reviews of the Ultimates. Reading through all the reviews of the Black Ops Single Digit Ultimates (or Ultimate Pros) and the SD7s, I come out leaning clearly toward the former. The bearings, machining, and design seem to be better.

Here are the rest of the brake reviews:

https://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/brake...LS_108crx.aspx

https://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc-...S_1507crx.aspx

I have cantis (Avid Tri-Align equivalents, XT, and others), roller cam, and linear pull brakes on different bikes. I'm not happy with the Shimanos; I like the Tri-Align equivalents; the roller cam brakes are great. The linear pulls are okay (they are Tektros, as I recall). But if I were upgrading or starting from scratch, I would choose the Avid Ultimates mentioned above (or the SD7s if cost made the difference) plus XTR cables.

***
I would be on the fence about the front disc brakes. My solution might be to try both. Reason: I find that this approach (actually trying both) can (often does) break the deadlock. New information comes from using and experiencing them both. Empirical data enters in and clarifies things.

Which discs? Avid BB7s with XTR cables and a new, aftermarket rotor. You've probably seen the reasons and reviews already, showing why people choose these disc brakes and rotors over other options.

Good luck with it, and please let us know what you discover.

Niles H.

There are elements in this review that struck me:

I've got to be honest, because of this I think disc brakes are over rated. There is something simple and almost artistic about the v-brake, and they help me remember why I got into the sport in the first place.

Plus, I don't live in the North West or North East, so the SD 7's are perfect for me. These are great brakes for XC riders who don't ride in wet weather or in the mud. Since I don't either, they are great for me too. If you pair them with SD levers and ceramic rims, you will have one awesome way to stop your bike.

To get the best braking performance possible from the SD 7's, be sure to get either the Kool-Stop salmon pads for regular rim surfaces or the green pads if you have ceramic rims.

If you are on the fence about V's vs disc, if you get a set of the Avid Single Digit 7's, you won't be any longer!

***
This picture and the enlargement might be of interest:

https://directbicycleparts.com/page.c...d=4261_d62cde9

***
I suppose if I were not going to be riding in conditions that gave the discs a real advantage (and I don't ride in mud or rain or other such conditions very often), I would lean toward these rim brakes. On the other hand, my curiosity would also be a factor, and I might just alternate between the BB7s and the Ultimates (or SD7s if cost were an issue), just to test for myself and see.

Aesthetics are a factor for me -- and both the looks and the quality of construction and design on those Avids have an aesthetic appeal, along with the simplicity factor mentioned in the first sentences of the review excerpt above.

If cost were not an issue, I would just try both and see for myself.

One possible drawback, though, would be the fork. If it meant a heavier, beefier fork for the discs, I might just skip them, unless I were riding in certain (disc brake) conditions more than rarely.

Still, I would want to see.

Another approach might be to try both of them out on other bikes, if possible.

prathmann

That seems like a pretty severe problem. Have you found a solution - and what model of rim is wearing out so quickly?
I've considered the use of disc brakes to eliminate wear of the rim braking surface, but I've been getting at least 50 kmiles out of my rims and only the front ones have worn out. AIRC, I've only ever needed to replace two rear rims - one was steel and died due to internal rust and the other failed due to an impact.

To the OP: Is there an option to have one brake of each type? I like the simplicity, lighter weight, and better availability of rim brakes, but it would be nice to still have some decent stopping power when going through standing water or mud, even if those are pretty rare events. Having one disc brake would provide that and it would also greatly reduce the rim wear since one could just use the disc for most routine stopping, esp. under wet, gritty conditions.

CycleBiker

I couldn't decide myself so I just put both on an old MTB frame I am building into a HD tourer.

NeilGunton

I agree that 5,000 miles for a wheel seems a very short lifetime. My hunch would be that there is something wrong with the build if that's all you get - spokes too tight, or perhaps something else. I'm no expert, but wheels should last a lot longer than that. I mean, that's just one coast-to-coast tour, I'd expect my wheels to last a lot longer than that, regardless of the brake type.

On the question of mixing disk and rim brakes, I am not too keen on that idea. I would much rather just carry one set of spare pads. Right now I'm kind of leaning toward the idea of getting disc on both front and rear, but asking Co-Motion to also include the rim brake mounts so that I have options down the road. So far nobody seems to be coming up with any big negatives for the discs, apart from added weight, expense, complexity, and possible difficulties finding spares in out of the way places. However all of those can either be minimized by planning, or else just aren't important in the bigger scheme of things (e.g. what's a few ounces more on a fully loaded touring bike?). And if I should have bigger problems, say a brake failing completely, then with the rim brake mounts I have the option of just buying a new V-brake caliper and using that instead (you might need a new wheel, as well, if you have disc-specific rims). I'm not sure if the brake levers for the BB7 discs are the same as those you might use with V-brakes, but I'm sure you could rig something up that would work in an emergency. Meanwhile, you have the benefits of not wearing down the rims etc.

So there I am talking myself into disc brakes - but I could just as easily rationalize about rim brakes. It's really a bit of a coin toss. But if there are no big disadvantages to discs, then I guess the lack of rim wear and tear and better operation in mucky conditions tips the balance. On the mucky conditions thing - I have read a couple of accounts online where people weren't all that impressed with the disc brake performance. Everything fails... expensive stuff just fails more expensively. I'll take my chances.

Thanks for all the tips on other exotic options (ceramic rims etc) but at this point I'm just going with the options that Co-Motion offers, in this case Avid Single Digit 7 linear pull brakes, or Avid BB7 discs.

Neil

Cyclesafe

I have a 2006 Americano Co-Pilot with Ultegra STI shifters, so I need and have the ROAD version of the BB7's. Sorry for the confusion - my bad. If you're going to use bar end shifters, then I would expect that CoMo will match the correct pull levers with whichever (road or mountain) version of BB7 they put on. Oh, and my bike came with 203mm rotors, just like CoMo's tandems.

Dish versus dishless hasn't come up yet (I think). The 145mm disc hub on the rear is dishless, but the 100mm tandem disc hub on the front is dished. This may be confusing until you think about it.

The idea of putting a disc brake only on the front has some merit. Although you'd tragically lose the bling of the disc on the rear, you would have better access to adjust a rim brake when the rack is installed. And you just don't need all the braking power of a disc in the back. The weight penalty of carrying a pair of extra rim brake pads is more than compensated for with the lighter weight of the rim brake system. The Americano comes with the doohickies on the seat stays for rim brakes. But they give you a different disc-specific fork on the front that does not have the doohickies. This brings up an important point, however. If you think you might be adding V brakes in the rear, make sure that you get mountain BB7's and linear pull levers. With my STI's I would be forced to use Travel Agents to get V brakes to work properly.

Oh, and the straight fork does nothing to contribute to hand numbness - as far as I have been able to tell for the last 22k miles.

BTW, with a pair of nylon spacers, the Tubus Logo and Cargo racks fit with the rear brake caliper poking between the two struts/stays. The reason this works is that the caliper is raised to operate the higher 203 mm rotor. The Tubus Tara works fine on the front. To fit 50mm SKS fenders, the struts on the brake sides need to be seriously bent. I had a former sheet metal worker (my brother in law) do this for me in his shop.

Niles H.

Sunday night a woman who has been using the BB7s told me that she has had problems with them rubbing and squeaking -- it has been difficult for her to get them to stop making noise, even when she's just riding along without touching the brake levers.

Maybe there is a good solution to this, though. It's something that someone (maybe at Co-Motion) might be able to resolve clearly.

Cyclesafe

Hi Niles!

There are fewer things more irritating than squeaky disc brakes. Bar none. However the problem is solved by
1) Setting the brakes up properly - easier said than done, but once you finally learn how you're set. Follow the instructions even though they seem stupid.
2) Make sure the rotors are true. Remove them from the hubs, place them on a hard surface that you know is flat and bend the rotors untill they lay flat too.
3) Only use OEM brake pads. The aftermarket pads tend to not have strong enough return springs.
4) Make sure that the wheels are properly mounted in the dropout or fork. And if these steps don't work:
5) Place a 5/8"x3/4" compression spring running around the cable just upstream from the pinch bolt to get the calipers open. Also improves (IMHO) modulation.

Be a hero to the woman who you talked to on Sunday night. Fix her bike!

Niles H.

Cyclesafe, thanks for that.

Neil, you have me leaning more in the direction of the BB7s now. I'd like at least to give them a try and see.

For what it's worth, Peter White has claimed that good rim brakes, properly set up (he stressed that), are fine in wet weather. He said that this was his experience. I still think BB7s would at least have a edge, and maybe more, in some cases at least. The only way I will really put the issue to rest for myself is to try them, though.

jabberwocky

I find its easier to true rotors with the wheel in a truing stand (or failing that, still mounted in the bike). Attach a zip tie somewhere that barely contacts the rotor and you can see where it wobbles. Straighten it with a crescent wrench while sighting down the edge.

I've never had any trouble with any spring included with aftermarket pads. I've had 1 set of mtb BB7s, two sets of road bb7s (one of which I still have) and have 3 sets of Juicys on various bikes at the moment (which use the same pads and return spring as bb7s). Between them all, I've run through a few dozen sets of pads, most of them aftermarket and never had an issue.

I find that upgrading the pads helps considerably with braking power. In any case though, if you don't like the aftermarket spring you can just reuse the oem one (or bend the aftermarket one to get more force). The "spring" is just a little metal clip, very easy to bend however you want.

As for drawbacks to the BB7s, the only one I can think of is they are a bit finicky to keep adjusted. Remember that the inboard pad doesn't move; the outboard pad contacts the rotor and then bends it towards the inboard pad. As the pads wear, you need to adjust both pad positions with the red adjustment knobs. The inner one can be a bit of a pain (especially with a high-spoke count wheel). I never had to do it that often, but I wasn't touring.

norcalhiker

YOU wrote this in a different thread but copy it here for posterity. Disk vs rim brakes is, I've found, a contentious topic. This is just my take on it, opinions will obviously vary:

Pros of disc brakes:
o Strong action
o Less affected by mud and water
o Unaffected by warped rims
o Pads last a long time
o No rim wear and tear
o No heated rims or tire blowouts on long descents
o Disc-specific rims can be slightly stronger
o They look cool, let's admit it!

Cons of disc brakes:
o Put more stress on spokes
o You need a dished wheel, even in front
o More beefy forks required, since stress is put on one side
o Some risk of pulling front wheel out of the dropout due to torsional stress
o Weaker rear wheel, since more dished both sides
o Can complicate rack attachment due to position of disk housings in relation to rack mount points
o Complicates rear kickstand mounting, same reason
o Less standard worldwide, more likely to need FedEx to deliver
o Pads become useless if you get oil on them
o Disc rotor is smaller than rims, so heats up more quickly
o On long descents, red hot rotor can heat up hub (bad for bearings)
o Disc rotor can still become damaged in transit, harder to replace
o Disc brakes often need re-adjustment and often squeal for no apparent reason

Pros of rim brakes:
o Simple, standard system
o Properly adjusted, can stop any bike
o Cheap replacement blocks
o Better mechanical advantage using rim
o No dishing of front wheel necessary
o Less stress on spokes
o Less wheel dishing = stronger wheels
o Less torque stress on front fork
o No tendency to pull front wheel out of dropouts
o Don't interfere with rack attachment
o Don't interfere with rear kickstand mount
o They let you know when your rim needs truing
o No risk of heating up your hubs on long descents

Cons of rim brakes:
o Wear and tear on rims
o Risk tire blowout from heating up rims on long descents
o Affected by water and mud
o Not always as strong as disc
o Don't look as cool

Summary: They both work, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. Pick your poison according to what aspects matter most to you.

Cyclesafe

Laundry lists of pros and cons are always padded with straw men and individual points are never weighed by their importance. I think that if disc brakes they didn't look as high tech and efffective as they do, you just wouldn't see them on road touring bikes. Off-road touring bikes are another story.