machka, most of your posts are pretty much spot on and well worth reading, but i'm going to disagree with you on this one.

i've got a 52 - 38 up front, which is what i've been touring with (self-supported) for coming on 37 years now, with no problems. no granny gear up front and a 5 speed freewheel (normally 13-28, but for big tours i put on a 14(?)- 32 or 34.

it seems like most people on this board focus solely on being able to climb mountains. i'm pretty sure we've all been on interminably long, steep slogs against the wind, wishing we had even lower gears. but to read what people write about here, i might guess that few have ever been on a long level road with the wind at your back. even fully loaded, the only times i'm not on my big chain ring is when i'm actually in the mountains or in stop & go traffic in the cities. I'd be loath to go down even to a 50 up front.

Gearing is a very personal thing and what's appropriate for you depends of your load, route, fitness, cycling style and just what you like. So even on flat roads with the
wind at my back I find my 42/11 gear to be more than enough as I'll be doing 25mph at 80 rpm. However, even with a tail wind, I find that hard to maintain so my gearing is designed around speeds more like 16,17 and 18 mph. I have a straight chain line in 42/17 gearing (67") and cruise along at 80rpm all day on the flats. As I tend to do 50ish mile days I often stop for the day by lunchtime leaving me lots of time to be pedestrian tourist.

except that most modern bikes sold with 9 cog cassettes are using 11 tooth cogs for the high gear which with a 44t chainring is the same 108" gear as your 52/13 high gear combo. Which IMHO is an unnecessarily high gear for touring. I've got a couple bikes set up with 8 or 9 spd cassettes and single front chainring that have a 30"-93" gear range that is the same as the ten spd set up my first touring bike had but with better spacing.

44/11 essentially equals 50/12, and nobody rides 50/11

I'm running a 12-27 cassette with 50-34 chainring. I don't really need an 11 cog because I don't need the 12 that often.

Another factor to consider is whether you just tour on your bike or use it for other purposes, such as commuting or recreational riding. I use my touring bike for commuting 99% of the time, so a smaller chainring would be unnecessary most of the time.

It's interesting that so many people think that touring bikes are only used for loaded touring!

I do have to admit that I don't think I've ever used the highest (and, maybe, the penultimate) gear on my road-triple-equipped tourer.

A few reasons. Front deraillers shift better (smoother) with smalller tooth differences. Larger differences require longer chains and rear derailers with longer cages (easier to damage). (Of course, larger differences require a longer cage for the front derailer too.)

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Marketing, I think. People who want "better" (more expensive) components are looking for particular brands.

I'm currently riding a 42x11-27 communting and there is no way you can't go fast enough on the flats. I've hit 36mph when spinning out and 27mph is comfortable rpm. if you're touring there is no need to ever pedal down hill, just tuck and use the weight to pull you.

Does such a thing actually exists?

My 42/11 is the same as your 50/12, so I'm only giving up a single high gear and I end up with gearing that's more comfortable for my style of riding. For me a neutral chainline at say 50/15 (90") would be a bit high for all day cruising, I like to pedal at 80 rpm so I have my neutral chain line set at 42/17 (67"). I ride 67" on my single speed tourer and I designed my gearing around that ratio so I can smell the flowers a bit and take many gradients without even changing gears.

42/11 at 80 RPM on 700c wheels is 24 MPH.
42/11 at 90 RPM on 700c wheels is 27 MPH.
42/11 at 120 RPM on 700c wheels is 36 MPH.

(Many people don't use cadences at even 80 RPM.)

I doubt I'm in the majority, but I know I'm not alone in the fact that my touring bike is only used for loaded touring. I have other bikes more suitable for commuting/groceries and sport/fitness riding close to home. Each of my bikes are geared appropriately for their intended use.

Wow - Cannondale Touring bikes really changed in the last few years eh? I have a 1993 T700 with the largest crank ring being a 42.

When i started touring some 4 years ago i set out with mountain gearing upfront (44-32-22) and an old school mtn cassette (11-30) in the rear. The combo was great for the hills with super low gearing, but on the flats i found myself constantly changing between middle and big rings to be in the sweet spot in my cadence. This wasn't an ideal situation. For one, front derailleurs don't shift that well (not compared to the rear anyways) so i was loosing efficiency with every front shift and it was just a pain in the ass. The second problem with a mountain set up is low top speed. My buddy would just race down the hills and i was stuck spinning my legs, and having to play catch up on the flats - (I'm in my 20's so i enjoy speeding down hills - some may not find this fun).
Today I ride road gearing (50-42-30) up front and an 11 - 34 cassette in the rear. I love it. I basically stay in the middle ring and use the whole cassette for most of my riding. This really minimizes front shifting. I only use the granny for the steepest of the steeps and the big ring for the long downhills or really tailwindy days. It makes sense, a front chainwheel for each type of grade. BTW I ride a LHT with ultegra sti's and mix of XT and ultegra drivetrain weighing in loaded at 75lbs.
I guess it really depends on your personal needs and fitness level. If you have a high level of fitness and want to put in the miles get a road crank. If you want to take it easy, coast hills, and have a good time - get a mountain crank. In my opinion road gearing allows you to do both milage days and enjoyment days. And who is to say a milage day cannot be enjoyed. Maybe because i'm young i have a different touring "style" than most.

It's just interesting that some many people think that the multiple-bike thing is the "normal" situation. I use my touring bike for everything on the road (I do have a mountain bike).

Well for most BF members it is a "normal" scenario. :)

I run a 52/39/26 crank with an 11-34 cassette. I use the 52 all the time, going down hills. It's fun to go fast, even while touring.

Outside Onawa, Iowa heading south on the Lewis and Clark trail. Scooted along at over 30 mph with a huricane at my back.

Out of Hood River, Oregon at about 25 mph with a very rare wind blowing down river.

Out of Fort William on the A82 along Loch Linnhe headed towards Oban (Scotland).

It happens:thumb: Of course you usually pay somewhere else. Like pedaling downhill in a low range gear off of the top of the Spittal of Glenshee. Now that sucked:notamused:

"And a 44 tooth is worthless too. Changing a 44T into a 50T adds more gears and doesn't get rid of any."

You are always trading something. You trade the narrow spacing that might well allow you to average a higher daily mileage notwithstanding that you lost a few hero points along the way.

The thing with threads like this is they always bring out a lot of folks who probably live for their odd fast run. It's like Golf you get the people who only remember a few long tee shots they made, and you get the people who did all the boring stuff required to hold a low handicap. Very few golfers maintain a handicap, and of those, less than 10 % shoot level par. Level par requires drives in the fairway of an average distance of 240 yards. I've known lots of guys who could never break 90 who could hit the ball, somewhere, 325yds. It's always a more subtle mater to figure out how to get the best results overall.

More realistically you want to compare the action in this thread to the threads about average MPH which often seems to be around 10 mph, with some folks managing higher numbers to be sure.

That said, presumably the real answer has something to do with MTBs, since that is where we get out gear.

I do it for more usable gears with finer differences between them; I am not interested in a wide as possible low to high range. When loaded with gear I find you often need a slight change in gear ratios to have just the right combination to still have a little acceleration. I also use a lot of fine gear changes with little steps between to slowly accelerate too my cruising speed winding out each small ratio change slowly. It sucks to spin out one gear then shift and find out the next gear step is too high to continue accelerating in. Think of a truck with 18 speeds; they are tiny steps between and do not use all of the gears to have a max speed of 120 mph. You need all of those fine steps when the engine power (me) is small compared to the weight you are trying to move. I use practically all of teh gears in between at one time or another depending on the hill and headwind combination.

What crank and FD are you using? I assume some the crank is a 110/74 triple

It's a 105 (130/74 I believe) 9 speed crank with Deore FD.

There is a compromise solution. I've got a Sugino crank with 48/36/24 rings. With the right cassette (or freewheel, in my case), it covers the bases pretty well.

That combo certainly gives you range, but I found that it puts my preferred gear of 70ish inches at the
extremes of the 48t and 36t chain ring gear ranges. IMHO if you have the time and inclination it's best to design your gearing so that you have a straight chain line in the gear that you use most, 67" is nice for cruising along at 16mph at 80rpm, and I can mash up many hills in it too. In fact I toured single speed in 67" from London to Yorkshire last year and only changed down to 39" for the steep hills of the North Yorkshire Moors.

http://wheelsofchance.org/england-2009/

After many years of riding, I came to realization that I spend a lot more time going up hills than I do coming down them! I think it is called wisdom :)

Nay. It called poor planning;) Stuart's #1 rule of most excellent bicycle riding: Always end on a downhill.