corkscrew

I've put about 600 miles on my Champion Flyer now. For the life of me I can't get it to be awesomeness that people use when describing brooks saddles.

The current config is the most comfy its been, but I found out this last weekend that after about 12 miles, I have numb man parts.

Is there a guide for positioning these? I have the nose tilted up slightly (Stopped at the point where I was no longer sliding forward), and it feels like most of my weight is on the sit bones. However I can't position it anywhere that doesn't put upward pressure on my perinieum.

Would I be better off trading it out for an Imperial? I should still be in the 6 month return window for Wallingford Bicycle...

JeanM

That is so bad!
Not having much problems and using the pre-aged model what can I say that would be useful?
OK, here it is, from my own experience with a B17 pre-aged.
The nose needs to be slightly up but only slightly. Otherwise one slips around on the saddle and, because of doing so, the sitting bones (hence the perineum) are rarely at their proper places.
One must sit pretty much at the back of the saddle. At first I had a feeling that I was almost too far back but I can see that my bones are digging in their dwelling at the right place.
The saddle must not be too high. This one made a lot of difference for me and not only with the Brooks. I had a tendency to set it up too high.
The Flyer(s are going to loose tonight to the Canadian... sorry ) as all the B17 based Brooks commands for the handlebars to be at least at saddle height.
Of course moving around a little, getting up from time to time, wearing seamless clothing and... expecting that my ass will sometimes burn, especially on a hot and humid day, and then need air cooling, all that helped a lot too.

This being said, everyone's anatomy isn't the same. This model or any model from Brooks (I rejected the B135 graft that was first attempted on me) may not be the right hide for your hind side.

Best luck.

wrobertdavis

Try lowering the saddle 1mm at a time. It can make a huge difference.

corkscrew

I am certain I'm sitting back far enough on the saddle. The little "dents" appear to be in the proper places. Sometimes it even feels like I'm sitting on the springs (I have a bony behind).

The handlebars are slightly lower than the saddle (Thank you Nitto Technomic!), I reviewed Sheldon's writings on this and don't think they are to low for the saddle, but it has crossed my mind). It might make sense though, the perinium pressure is worse when I'm on the hoods or drops (opposed to sitting up right, braking with cross levers).

I'll lower the saddle a wee bit and see if that helps on the ride home.

Thanks.

LHT in Madison

I measured about 5mm (plus or minus about 1mm) of spring deflection on my Brooks Conquest (Conquest is similar to a Flyer) when I am on my bike. I weigh about 210 pounds. Thus, the back of the saddle is lower by that amount when I am sitting on it compared to when I am simply looking at it with no weight on the saddle. So, if your saddle nose is slightly higher than the back with no weight on it, the nose will be even higher with weight on the saddle. How much depends on your weight. I have the back of saddle slightly higher than the front when there is no weight on it.

Sorry I can't give better accuracy on how much spring deflection I have but when I am sitting on the bike while stopped and leaning with one shoulder against a wall and one hand on the handlebar to get the right amount of forward lean, it is not easy to operate my caliper behind me with my other hand to accurately measure spring deflection.

bfree

Don't be afraid to try the imperial. Before I bought mine I went to a Raleigh dealer to try out a standard B17. I felt comfortable, but had slight perineal pressure. I knew that for my riding style on this bike I would have more weight on the saddle and went with the imperial. I'm less than 500 miles in with this saddle, and even getting low in the drops I feel zero pressure.

corkscrew

If I can't get the Flyer to be ultra comfy in the next week or so, I'll be returning it for the imperial. Thought about sending it off to selle-anatomica for the "brooks upgrade" but am also entertaining thoughts of lowering my bars.

In the meantime, I lowered it about a mm on my lunch break, and also lowered the nose of the saddle a bit. Good point on the spring deflection, I'm weighing in around 160lbs, so I'm sure it changes a bit, and that thought hadn't occurred to me.

JeanM

Better or not?
For finding the right height I've long forgotten any of the classic tricks and then I go by the pain: too low then I get pain around my knee cap; too hight it's a pinching feeling behind the leg, at knee height. What I found was that the Brooks needs to be set within narrower tolerances than any other padded saddle I formerly owned.

Good luck.

corkscrew

I'm off work in 1.5 hours, I'll report back after my 10 mile ride home.

Road Fan

I find that I spend a lot of time back far enough for good sit-bone support, but sometimes slide forward, which increases perineal pressure. So far I'm addressing this by moving my saddle forward a millimeter at a time without changing the angle. For me these tiny adjustments work well. I tried a slight tilt-up to "force" my butt back, but it always causes man-part issues. I think if I don't need to be forced back, that the saddle is placed where my butt wants it to be, it will be as healthy as possible.

As far as height, I'm finding the heel-on-pedal method to work pretty well. This year at least I'm not feeling any front-of-knee pain.

Since you have a sprung saddle, no absolute saddle position measurements would be relevant for you, at least none I could make. If you have a fairly precise angle measurement tool, you can just measure where it is angled and lower the nose incrementally a half-degree at a time until the front pressure starts to abate. If you lower it so far that you are sliding forward too much, that's too much.

JeanM

Should we file a Missing Person report by now?

corkscrew

Ha! Sorry, actually had to do some work today.

Lowering the post, and the nose helped a bit, but its still not perfect. Don't think I can lower the saddle any more and still be friends with my knees! Sitting upright I got rid of the perineal pressure, but it was still there while on the hoods and in the drops. I'll continue to adjust it for the next week or so, and if I can't make it work, then I'll trade it in for an imperial.

bwgride

After riding with a Brooks on several bikes for about 3 years I have found the best position is in my spare parts bin. I could not move the Brooks far enough rearward for comfort and have moved to a more comfortable synthetic saddle.

AdamDZ

I succeeded at positioning my Brooks saddle! I positioned it in a middle of a shipping box, wrapped carefully in foam and shipped it off to the next victim willing to go through the torture to wear it in

corkscrew

I fixed that problem with a Velo Orange grand cru set back post, which allows plenty of rear-ward spacing so far. I just can't get the thing to not put pressure on the man bits. Next payday I'll send it back for an imperial, and give that a go.

skijor

You are wise. My conclusion after going through what you have (I am also bony behinded)...the more aero the position, the greater the need for perineal relief (hole/trough/depression of some sort be it leather or otherwise).

My Swift is gathering dust as we speak. My B17CS has been strictly relegated to commuting duty...still waiting to go under the knife.

naisme

I own two Brooks B-17s, one tan one green, the tan one seems to be the better of the two saddles, and rode all last summer on it, but I wanted to use this green, and it has been a pain most of my winter commute, and now into the start of summer, and all the issues above on the man bits, are issues. My other problem has been the stock seat post on the LHT, I haven't been able to adjust it incrimentally. My LBS suggested using some sand paper to rough up the leather so I'd quit sliding forward, but still slid forward.

flavio

Interesting.. I experienced the same, exactly those pains in the same parts of the leg, when it is too high or too low (with Brooks but also with previous synthetic ones).
At the end I learned that my right position of the saddle is lower than what is usually written in standard rules. And that a change of 1 mm is enough to break the equilibrium.

Actually I ride a B67 and I'm very happy

Road Fan

Yes, the rules are just starting points, and they have no idea if your knee hurts!

badamsjr

I originally tried to break in a B17, but found it to be too narrow for my 'sit bones', so I got a used B72, and was able to get it to work for everything BUT riding in the drops. The same perineal pressure when 'getting down'. I looked at Selle Anatomica's site, and thought "I could do a cutout on mine". So I did! I probably overdid it a little, because after I was done, the perineal pressure was relieved, but the center of the saddle sagged under weight. I fixed this by using a leather punch to place evenly spaced holes along the edge of the cutout and the bottom edge of the saddle (about where the Brooks logo is stamped). Then I took a black athletic shoelace (my B72 is black) and laced the edge of the cutout to the bottom edge on each side.
Viola! A saddle that is comfortable for LONG distance rides (did a windy century in 9hr 10mn with NO issues), is very adjustable, and highly unique! Your mileage may vary.
Just an asside--in spite of warnings of DIRE consequences, I 'helped' my B72 break in by taking a micorfiber towel (about 1ft square) and after folding it lengthwise twice to form a 12inx3in strip, laid it on top of the area of the saddle where my 'sit bones' would be, and poured enough water on the two sitting spots to soak through the towel. Then I would mount up and ride until the towel had dried. I did this two or three times, and then started applying Proofide, and have had NO issues. It took untold miles off the breakin process, and worked so well that I have since used the same routine on two B68's and one B67, all to good effect!
I hope this helps.

skijor

Congrats on your success. It seems most BFer's that poo poo on less than approved methods have little to no experience with such methods. You and I do. Water and neatsfoot oil do help. It's a matter of judging when to say when given your weight, the saddle width, and other variables.

LHT in Madison

Regarding badamsjr method to break in a Brooks, I am almost done breaking in another one. I have gotten the saddle moist before and it worked so this time my procedure was:

1. Soak saddle in cold water for 15 seconds, wipe off excess water and let it sit for 30 minutes before riding. That allowed the moisture time to fully penetrate the leather. Rode about 5 miles. Had slight improvement, but not enough.
2. Did the same a few days later but used 20 seconds of soak instead of 15. Some more improvement, but needed more.
3. Third try several days later, used a 30 second soak and rode it for more miles, but not sure how many, maybe 10. It is not quite where I want it but close enough that I stopped using water.
4. Let it dry for a day in the sun and apply Proofhide. My Proofhide method is to apply it and put the saddle in a plastic bag in the sun for a few hours, the Proofhide warms up and soaks into the leather quite well.

If using water, I suggest you go slow at the start because too much can damage a saddle. Using a soak of less than a minute and letting it sit for some time before a ride is intended to get the leather moist, but not too moist. If initial effort is not enough, there will always be time to be a bit more aggressive. I also stayed close to home in the event that the saddle started to take form too fast, I could get home without too much more time on the moist leather. Moist leather is also fragile, I used smooth shorts to avoid any abrasion on the leather surface.

quester

I finally got mine broken in (and by the way, I'm heavy), by accidentally leaving it uncovered one night on tour during a rainstorm. Voila, the next morning I had an entirely new (and more comfortable) saddle!

badamsjr

LHT;
Good advice on not overdoing it! I considered a 'full body soak', but decided against it, because I was unwilling to take a chance of causing damage to the leather at all the mount points. By that, I mean around the back where the frame is riveted, and ESPECIALLY at the three rivets in the nose of the saddle. I had previously had a used B66 come apart at these front rivets after I had softened the whole saddle with Proofide, so I am a bit gunshy when it comes to 'off the wall' break in methods.
At the prices these things command, I can't afford to destroy too many of them! That's why I went with the towel method-it gets the job done, without unnecessary risk. IMHO

king koeller

I adjust my Brooks B-17 the following way. Get a level. The kind with a bubble in it. Set the saddle perfectly parallel to the earth. Now when that's done, drop the front 2 degrees, There you have it. Perfect comfort all day. The best way to break it in is to ride it. Over and over.
For each and every ride the seat gets better.