D'OH! Don't you make me get out of this chair! :)

Why SRAM and not, say, Shimano?

Unless you're using telekinetic shifters, I'm pretty sure there have to be at least a few parts that move... And if there are moving parts, it seems like there's an opportunity for them to break, wear out, or expire from lack of maintenance. Granted, integrated brake/shift levers probably have more moving parts. I'm not convinced this makes them any less reliable, however.

I also reject the rivendell propaganda, i find it annoying when people quote advertising copy and call it reference material. On the other hand, I've had the pleasure of switching to friction mode a couple of times, both in the winter when the &%$# rear derailleur got iced/mucked up. Sure, I could have stopped and performed some routine maintenance but it was easier (and warmer) to calmly twist the little control to 'F' and keep riding.


I also have a non-working 105 shifter in my parts bin, no broken bar ends yet.:innocent:

Perhaps the word choice of "have no moving parts" was not the best choice and not 100% accurate. Regardless though, you have taken one sentence to comment on and not the whole post in its context.

The bar ends have 2 main pieces; the main body mounts in the handlebar with an expansion joint to keep it in place, the other piece - the lever itself, bolts onto the main body and this lever rotates around a bolt. This rotating action movers the cable which moves the derailler. Pretty basic - yes?
Here is a picture of the guts of a bar end shifter.
http://www.parktool.com/images_inc/r...dshifter44.jpg

The only "moving part" is the lever itself. Would it "wear"? Y..eesss but unlike a brifter (see PDF below) a bar end has much less gizmos, wingdings and widgets in 'em. More to go wrong and more parts that rely on each other to work properly. I'd be interested to see how many posts on here lament about worn out bar end shifters Vs worn out or troubled brifters.

Shimano STI level diagram - here.

Brifters do wear out, many (not everyone mind you) who have used them for a number of years will say they had a pair that did wear out. You will find many posts on here saying as much about brifters with discussions on how to...revive them.

Once again, just for you, I have brifters on my touring bike. Again, I like brifters. However, there is the issue of indexing troubles OR brifter malfunction that one may want to consider when building a touring bike. One would have to weigh the pros and cons as well as consider ones priorities and riding factors (i.e. remoteness or perhaps elements).

Sorry! Didn't realize it was a forum rule that I had to comment on every sentence of your entire post!

Appreciate your lengthy and condescending reply, but having owned a bar-end equipped bike for the better part of 15 years I'm quite familiar with the construction and operation of bar-end shifters. Also quite familiar with Shimano and SRAM integrated brake/shift levers. Sadly, your lengthy diatribe has failed to convince me that cheap bar-end shifters are any more reliable than integrated levers...

Simple equation for me. I don't race or ride fast club rides on my touring bike. In the last 10 years or so, I've had three brifters fail on two road bikes: a 105 RH, and both sides of an Ultegra set. I also have been using a set of DuraAce bar ends since 1997 without any problems. Plus, I like the ability to trim the FD quickly and accurately, which I could not do on any of my brifters.

I'm a bar end guy for touring and commuting.

I really like the ergonomics of the Shimano Tiagra brifters. They seem to fit my hands perfectly. I definitely like the feel of them more than the tektro R whatever levers on my bike now. I currently use bar end shifters, but I may switch over for that reason alone. I'm going to try out the new sram single speed levers first and see how they feel. Otherwise I'm happy with bar end shifters, especially when I have my fat lobster claw gloves on in the winter.

I have barends on my folding bike and love them! I'm waiting for the STIs on my touring rig to die so I'll have an excuse to install barend shifters.

I dislike the shape of Shimano's shifters and the cables that shoot out of the sides. SRAM's shifters are simpler and they fit my hands. Both types shift well and are very reliable. I just prefer SRAM.:innocent:

My intention was not to upset you, my apologies.

I do not mean for you to comment on every sentence, but rather look at the whole in its context. If selecting one sentence and basing my whole opinion on that is not conducive to a discussion.

I'm not dissing BEs nor am I dissing brifters, rather stating that one has to look at their situation and may wish one over another.

You commented, "I'm pretty sure there have to be at least a few parts that move... And if there are moving parts, it seems like there's an opportunity for them to break,..." lead me to believe that you were unfamiliar with bar ends. Ergo, I had included a picture and diagram of both with an explanation.

Bar end shifters are not necessarily cheap. From what I understand, Shimano only have Ultegra level bar ends available now and are fairly pricey and high quality.

I have not done any exhaustive study on BEs over brifters, my evidence is merely empirical and with experience. As is your experience valid as well. From what I understand, you have not seen a difference. Fair enough.

No doubt the reliability gap between BEs (and DTs) as compared to brifters is alot narrower these days than when brifters were first introduced, but, as I stated before, that one's priorities, riding style and location, and comfort level will determine the shifter choice.

I would recommend brifters to any touring cyclist. However, I would not recommend them to anyone if they are not mechanically inclined or might be touring in a remote location or transporting your bike a lot or cycling in a difficult climate.

If you are not convinced, that is quite ok and you might very well have a happy and trouble-free cycling career using brifters, which is my hope.

Take care.

Ah, I see, I've never tried SRAM. True, the shifter cables on Shimano brifters do cause some issues with mounting a handlebar bag. I can't remember if it was this year, or last year, that the Shimano brifter now has the internal cable routing.

I use to have BEs and Areo levers on my touring bike, but I did not like the small edge of the aero levers hoods, I found them to be...quite sharp (although that is too strong of a word) and uncomfortable. One of the reasons I switched to brifters for the larger platform on the hoods.

I never quoted them as reference material as if this is some sort of scientific documentary about the advantages of brifters vs. barends. The article was written as an opinion piece, from a guy who has happen to give bicycles a huge amount of thought, on the advantages of constant shifting for the average rider, rather than racer. I take his opinion as being valuable for the question that the OP asked.

Ultimately every choice of shifter is a compromise on something and that something depends on your priorities.

I agree that the failure rate for any shifters is low, but bar-ends and down-tube shifters have much fewer parts to wear out and are fixable if they do have problems. I have had two sets of STIs wear out, both times the right shifter that gets used the most. The first time it was an Ultegra shifter that was probably 10 years old with 20,000 miles. However, the second one was a Dura-Ace shifter that was only one year old with about 3,000 miles. When STI shifters break they are for all intents and purposes shot. There are very few mechanics willing or able to fix them, and it would probably be cheaper to buy a new set anyway. Fortunately for me, my DA shifter that broke was covered under warranty. However, if it breaks again it won't be covered by warranty and will be replaced by DA bar-end shifters.

Let's be fair here. The 'shifting part' of an STI is hardly more complicated than the picture you show of a barend. The exploded diagram of an STI lever has lots of parts but not all of those are involved in moving the shifter. Lots of those parts would show up in an exploded diagram of a brake lever, some of the parts are there for cosmetic reasons, and some of the parts are there for Shimano's Flight Deck computer (does anyone really use Shimano's computer:rolleyes:)

Again, to be fair, you have as little access to the guts of the barend shifter (the actual shifting mechanism not the mounting parts) than you do to the shifting guts of the STI. The internals of the actual shift lever are more than just what you see in the picture. There are several other parts in the lever so that the lever can go click when you shift. There are even parts in there to make the lever not go click when you shift. Both STI and barends use essentially the same technology to do the clicky thing;)

Ruggedness isn't measured by how few parts a mechanism has but by how it holds up in the field. You can find examples of broken shifters of both types, you just don't find too many examples of either. STI has proven itself in the field just as barends have. STI levers aren't pansies...never derogatorily call anything a pansy around me - those are tough little plants that flower in my backyard in the dead of winter:D Wait...maybe STI levers are pansies:D

Well, this thread has been an impressive and invaluable resource towards my definitive decision to go with bar-end brifters.:thumb:

Hmm... we should gt together people who have been converted from STI to barends, or the reverse, to coordinate swaps!

Agreed! Next topic: World Peace.:)

Can I have a pony, please?

Switching to friction does nothing for helping out an iced up rear derailler. You still can't push the derailler to help the return springs get you into a higher gear. My index shifters have worked even completely covered in ice (gotta love freezing rain) but I've had to stop a few times over the years of winter riding to clear the ice/snow from my rear derailler.

rothenfield1: looks like I'm late to the party, but here's my two-cents worth. I love brifters on my road bikes, and would be using them on my tourer, except that try as I might, I could NOT get my front derailleur to go all the way from small to large ring (XT triple w/XT cranks). I just got done installing a set of DA77 BE's, and VIOLA! Now I can shift to any ring, and any cog at will. I will probably have to get used to the BE's, since I had not previously had them on any bike, but being able to reliably shift to whatever combination I need is MORE than worth it to me. BTW, I have Nitto 135 Randonneur bars, thus the brifter/BE choice.

what are the lifespan on road brake shifter levers like when used as a commuter tourer and as the only bike used by a person?
do they wear out?

Im looking at a bike from 2000 thats outfitted with them and am concerned that because they are used and old they may be at the end of their life.

You can't nail down comparative lifespan of shifters because just about everybody you talk to says " The life is Uuummm...... It's as long as they last".
The life depends on how many days the bike was ridden in the rain, how many times the unit was serviced, whether the rider is a ham fisted ****er.... way too many variables to make an educated guess.
I think you can drive yourself crazy worrying about shifters failing....or not. What's the worse that can happen? You aren't going to fall to your death if one or the other stops working.
Shifters are as personal as saddles. One man's sofa is another man's anvil. (not starting a Brooks debate here)

Hmmmm... haven't tried that combo, but my 105 triple and my Tiagra triple shift great with Tiagra 9sp brifters. I think I'd try a used $30 105 FD off eBay before I'd give up on brifters if that's what I prefered.

STI does have issues with mountain bike front derailers. Road front and STI work well for just about any crank...including 44/32/22 mountain cranks. The Tiagra triple is a better triple than it's more expensive brothers. It's more forgiving and easier to set up because the cage is wider between the plates and the plates are thinner. You can use it over a wider range of gears in the rear without having to trim.

I use non-indexed (friction) bar-end shifters on all my bicycles. Even my "mountain" and cargo bikes have them mounted on Paul Thumbies. I use such a setup for the following reasons:

-cost effectiveness: bar-ends are less expensive than even the crappiest brifters.
-I use linear pull and disc brakes: As far as I know, there are no long-pull brifters available.
-durability: brifters have lots of small parts and are difficult to work on. I've had one bust on tour while I was in Japan and I've never gone back since. Breaking a bar-end shifter would require an immense amount of bad luck, or some sort of WMD.
-no need to fuss with indexing! I can just install the cables and forget about it. No annoying "half-shifts" as new cables stretch out.
-I like the feel of friction much better than "clicking" between gears.
-more adjustable: If a derailleur is slightly off kilter, I can simply fine-tune my shifting without having to resort to using a barrel adjuster or a allen wrench.
-more interchangeable: I don't have to worry what brand my cassette and derailleurs and shifters are. Everything plays nicely together.
-It appeals to my own incredulity as a non-engineer: I have no freaking idea what is going on inside a brifter. Bar-ends on the other hand, I can easily understand.

Its not that I don't like bicycles with brifters. I've really enjoyed riding some of my friends bikes that have them. When they're set up well, and properly tuned, they work nicely, and I imagine that they're fairly reliable if you buy nice ones. Its just that I don't like the feel and function of them enough to justify the extra complication, trouble, expense, risk, etc...