MJH

I hope someday to really get into touring. Right now I have a GT Virage hybrid that is a great bike. I've done the Katy Trail in Missouri twice now and it has done very well. However, that is a 4 or 5 day trip staying in motels, so carrying very little in my Topeak trunk with the fold down panniers.

Is there an actual touring bike that is set up with flat bars and bar ends? My set-up on the GT is very comfortable and I seem to have enough hand positions. I don't want to go with drops and don't think I'd like the trekking bars.

I know I could build up a frame, but I personally can't do the work so it would cost a fortune. I know I could just stick with the GT, but want the touring geometry and stability.

Any ideas?

NoGaBiker

Well, you know the Novara Safari has a "flattish" bar. At least not drops. But it has twist shifters rather than trigger, which many (myself included) don't like. So you'd be changing out shifters anyway if that's a problem. And once you're doing that you may as well buy any touring bike and change out bars and shifters.

But if you're okay with the butterfly bars and twisties the Safari is an inexpensive package. If you have an REI anywhere near it warrants a try.

jtgotsjets

I don't understand the aversion to drop bars...?

You have the same hand position as a flat bar... plus three others. Where's the disadvantage? Surely not weight savings?

mr geeker

MJH, theres an old saying: if it aint broke, dont fix it.

Cyclebum

The short answer is "No."

The longer answer is buy the stock touring bike that fits you best. Then, after riding it for awhile, decide what needs tweaking to make it most comfortable for you. That's very common. Make the changes as you get the money. Saddle, bar, bar height, gears, shifters are most common.

Yep, it can get pretty expensive if you're not happy with the stock bike.

BengeBoy 

Lots of touring and/or "trekking" bikes in Europe come stock with flat bars or various versions of flat bars. You can get one or retrofit any bike, though there can be some issues with compatibility of control levers, etc.

https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/sherpa.html

https://www.koga.com/us/segment.asp

TurbineBlade

A bike that comes stock with them? Dunno.

Do people tour with them? Oh yeah, tons of people all over the world. With bar ends they're comfortable and you can do anything other folks can....plus, you get easier use of v-brakes if you choose (provided you have v-brake levers).

That said, I use a wide drop bar with the tektro v-brake road levers (rl520 I think they're called?)....wouldn't change it!

BillyBob

check the bar diameter, but you may be able to get a safari and just replace the handlebars.

SweetLou

Flat bars have advantages over drop bars and vice-versa. I like the much wider flat bars. For shorter hands, braking with a flat bar lever is much easier than a road lever. For shorter riders, having a flat bar allows for a more relaxed geometry without toe overlap, way to shallow head tube, higher bottom bracket or being too far stretched out.

A better question might be why the aversion to flat bars? With bar ends, you have the same amount of hand positions, minus the drops.

TonyS

For me, the aversion to flat bars is they wreck my wrists pretty fast, even with bar ends.

I did the Katy and the Frisco Highline with flat bars and decided I never want to ride with them for long distances again if I can help it.

If they don't wreck your wrists after 40 miles, rock on. But they did wreck mine.

TurbineBlade

I remeber the frisco highline trail, I almost hit a deer there one morning riding it. (I went to school at MSU, lived on Jefferson Ave for years).

I really like a wide set of drop bars, but I think the climbing leverage is better with most flat bars. So I don't think of drop bars as already "containing" flat bars necessarily. Either type can work - another funny point about this is that in non-U.S. areas drop bars are a LOT less common in the non-racing community than here, and a lot of people still do long distance riding and touring.

John Bailey

If you look at the ACA magazine and count the numbers of flat bars and drop bars (disregarding the advertisements) you usually find there are more flat bars being used than drop bars for touring in the real world.

John

TonyS

Groovy, turbineblade! One cool thing about the Frisco Highline is that they have now paved the first 10 miles on the Springfield end, and by the end of the month will have an additional 3-5 more miles paved.

Now if they could only do something about the ticks....

Bacciagalupe

FWIW, I preferred flat bars for a long time. Then I wised up -- err, changed my mind. After putting bar-ends onto my flat bars (a good idea anyway, since you get more hand positions), I realized that position felt more natural and comfortable, so I switched.

Since ymmv, most of the frames that are marketed as touring bikes in the US have drop bars. However there are countless hybrid bikes and flat-bar road bikes that you can use for almost any tour, especially since they will have low gearing. One example is the Jamis Coda series. Steel frame, longer chainstays and wheelbase, room for wider tires, low gearing. Just because no one in marketing bothered to slap a "Made To Tour" label on a bike, there's often little or no reason why you can't use it that way.

I would also pick up a pair of Ergon grips, I found them much better than the standard grips. I wrapped my bar-ends in bar tape for added comfort.

wahoonc

Absolutely!

Here is picture of my 1989 Giant Excursion, it came with flat bars, but I converted to drop bars. Also consider butterfly bars as an option too. IMHO you ride what is comfortable for you. There are people like Heinz Stücke who has ridden more kilometers(over 539,000) in his lifetime that most tourists will in a dozen, and he uses a three speed!

Aaron

TonyS

Also, North Road bars and moustache bars!

staehpj1

Not knocking flat bars for those who prefer them but...

Not really. With flat bars and bar ends there is no position that is really the same as on the hoods, and the hands on the "corners" position is usually not very comfortable with bar ends. Since those two are where my hands are most of the time I don't like flat bars much.

Photos in ACA magazine represent "touring in the real world"? I doubt that is a very good measure.

I suspect that it depends on where you tour which is more popular, but on my tours I met something like 4 times as many tourists on drop bars as flat bars if you don't count mountain bikes on tours that are largely off road.

TonyS

THIS! If I could've comfortably had some sort of analogue to the "corners" position on the Katy and FH, I would've been just fine. But there isn't one.

BigBlueToe

Some people just don't want drop bars. The complaint I've heard most is they give you a sore back. They choose a flat bar bike. I've seen several people tour with hybrids. Some people have mountain bikes and can't afford another bike so they tour on what they have - flat bars and all - not a bad choice. Put some road tires on your mountain bike and you've got a pretty strong tourer with low gears. Some people like mustache bars or trekking bars and set up their tourers with them. However, most people who buy touring bikes choose drop bars. That's my seat-of-the-pants observation based on all the other tourers I've run into.

If you have a bike with flat bars and want drops you can convert them, but it involves some work and some money. If you're serious about touring and have the money, buy a touring bike. If you don't want to spend a bunch of money, tour on what you have.

SweetLou

I'm sorry, did I say they were the same or did I say there three positions? Though, I could counter that though my bar ends are not the same as the hoods, I would also say that they are more comfortable than the hoods.

Fine, you like drop bars. Guess what, so do I but not on bikes that require better braking. If I am going out on a fun solo ride, I'll probably take one of my drop bar bikes. If I am going to the grocery store, I'll take one of my flat bar bikes. If I am going on a ride where I want to flat out go, I'll take a drop bar. If I am going for a leisurely ride, it will be most likely a flat bar bike.

But it still comes down to why the aversion to flat bars? Fine, you answered it, you don't find them as comfortable as drops. I find them more comfortable and practicable in certain situations.

valygrl

The only one that comes to mind to me is Thorne. Their bikes are gorgeous and well thought out.

Watch the reach if you do a conversion, I'm not sure the geometry is the same for a frame that was intended for drop bars vs flat bars.

Personally, I can't use flat bars - on my first tour I rode a mountain bike, my hands fell asleep (ulnar nerve damage) on week 2 and didn't wake back up until about a month after I was finished with the tour. This never happens with the drop bars.

nancyj

I would say do whatever is comfortable to you and shake it out on some long rides fully loaded because touring is not when you want to figure out that you need to change something like that.

I prefer the drop bars but my husband abhors them. When we rebuild our tandem we are going to put flats and bar ends on them to try that out. While touring, I rarely found myself on the drops but mainly on the hoods or on the flat on the top or some combination therof. I will say if you find the drop bars uncomfortable that I probably tried 7 or eight different bars to get the "right" one as well as a different stem. For a woman, most stock bars are too wide (that may be different now)

I think it is the same thing like the discussions about shoes and clothing admonishing people that they *must* dress the part. I don't find a stiff sole comfortable even though I do not feel unsafe riding in cleats (old school bike with clips). My feet are just too constrained if they cannot flex some and I don't mind the minor loss in efficiency and like the ability to jump off the bike and walk without much ado. I spent a month on a bike with one pair of tennis shorts alternated with one pair of knit jersey shorts and t-shirts and had zero problems with comfort

Touring is supposed to be fun.

jtgotsjets

I'll give you "better braking," although in my personal opinion, you're entering into the realm of "just how ****ing fast do you need to brake?" If I can stop my front wheel fast enough that any brake pressure on my rear causes it to skid (not a problem with either my sidepulls or my cantis operated from drop bar levers), then I am stopping fast enough. Any faster and I'm likely to get just as injured stopping as I am running into something.
And of course, you can put flat levers on drop bars, so the argument is moot.

I am pretty sure you're talking out of your ass as far as geometry goes. A bike's geometry doesn't change when you switch out the handlebars. You want a slightly different geometry based on where you're placing your hands, but to choose your handlebars based on your height is nothing short of completely nuts.

Why the aversion to flat bars for touring? Long rides with your hands at that angle will tend to cause nerve pain flare-ups. Without bar ends, you have one hand position. With them, you have only two. Bar ends are the least comfortable things I've ever laid hands on. (For the longest time I thought for sure they were intended as bashguards because they don't provide any sort of comfort or control). No versatility. It's like bike designers in the 80s were like, "What is the worst handlebar design we can possibly think of? Let's just shove a broomstick into the stem while we figure it out." It is bassackwards. It is unnovation.

This is the same complaint I hear as well, but I believe it to be based on misconceptions. There is nothing preventing anyone from putting drop bars on a bike in some way that allows an upright, non-hunched posture. It's just that most people's only experience with drop bar bikes nowadays is seeing racers all hunched over in their super aggressive positions (or maybe they rode a Free Spirit in the 70s). Then they look at mountain bikes and, not understanding the subtleties of bike geometry, see that they sit more upright. The only thing they can see that is different is the handlebars, so they assume "curvy weird handlebars=pain, flat handlebars=comfort," when in fact the opposite tends to be true.

This is not to say flat handlebars don't have a place. It's just that that place is mountain biking, where you're going to want your hands in one place all the time and you want good leverage for off-road steering.

GetUpnGo

I have an upright, swept-back bar like the Nitto northroad on a Jamis Coda Sport. I notice that when you have the seat and handlebars set up correctly, with your weight balanced well, plus wide ergonomic grips, good gel gloves, and a good seat, there is no need for multiple hand positions.

A good handlebar mimics the natural angle of wrists as your arms dangle at your sides. I think that's something like 30 degrees. A straight bar forces the wrists to turn unnaturally.

Personally, I find a straight bar puts too much weight forward. An upright bar distributes my weight about 50/50 front and rear.

For climbing hills I reach forward of the brakes. The rest of the time I'm pretty comfortable with just one hand position, on the ergonomic grips. I suffered for years with carpal tunnel syndrome (caused by cycling), finally had to get surgery. I'm more comfortable now than I've ever been on a bike in my life.

SweetLou

That's great. But for me and my small hands, I cannot lock up the wheels. My fingers are too close to the pivot point to get any meaningful mechanical advantage. If you read my earlier comment, I said for people with smaller hands.
no it is not moot. cross levers are placed close to the stem. Having the hands closer to the stem reduces controllability.

Did I say that putting a flat bar on a bike changes it's geometry? No, I didn't. I said with a flat bar, you can have a bike with a more relaxed geometry and not have the problems of toe overlap, etc. For example, look at Thorn's bicycles. He recommends a bike with a longer top tube if you are going with flat bars and a shorter top tube if you use drop bars.

Great. I am glad you like drop bars. I find both drop bars and flat bars with bar ends to be comfortable. I am sorry you have had troubles with flat bars, but that doesn't mean everyone has problems with flat bars.

I'm sorry, you are putting words in my mouth again. I never said anything about being hunched over. I did not once mention that drop bars will put you in a racing position. As a matter of fact, a couple of my drop bar bikes have the bars placed in a position where I am sitting in a comfortable upright position.
For you.

That is one place but there are others, like I said, when I need better braking. I like the wider distances between the grip area. I ride mostly on the bar ends because it is more comfortable than on the flat parts, just like when I ride one of my drop bar bikes, I ride 95% of the time on the hoods. Maybe it is because of my smaller hands, but I do find bar ends to be more comfortable than the hoods. I'm not saying the hoods are uncomfortable, just that the bar ends are more comfortable.