when I was touring long distances I ate food and drank water. Then I started racing and I ate food/candy bars and drank water. Then Power Bars came on the scene and I ate food/power bars and drank water. Now I buy vitamin water because it fits in the bottle cage, eat food and drink water. If the concern is money or convenience popping a couple tabs while eating/hydrating seems a lot cheaper and less messy than powder or bottles given the fairly large caloric requirments of daily riding and the inadequacy of dilute sugar drinks to meet that caloric need.

Kind of funny that you are upset about others using adjectives, yet you bold one (i.e., real) when describing money as if no one else comprehends the economics of the situation.

The entire premise of the question makes no sense to me. It assumes that these products are necessary. The power of marketing never ceases to amaze me. I recall a wonderful parody of ads for trash compactors when they first appeared: "Turn 50 pounds of trash into 50 pounds of trash!"

Aint it the truth. Ive gone so far as to make my own electrolyte mixtures. It was mostly to see if I could ( yes, I could ). The cost wasn't what drove me to try it.
Rather, I did it because, as you note, Ive been convinced I should have them available.

Interestingly, what I find when I am actually in the saddle is that I prefer water. Ive toted along both my home brew concoctions and commercial electrolyte drinks while riding. Invariably "sports drinks" and that ilk, no matter their source, turn cloying and kinda icky when I've shifted my body's needs to immediate hydration.

The question at hand does not include the assumption that anything is necessary. It asks those who do buy/drink electrolyte replacement drinks what they do - buy bottled drinks or carry mix?

If you want to fight/argue, please go elsewhere.

I'm sure you can do the Google thing and figure it out. ;)

I don't vouch for any one specific product. However, there are several well-known, and nowadays better understood, advantages of a sports drink over plain water.

If you're on the bike, your primary form of fuel is blood glucose. This is basically sugars that are in your bloodstream, and is readily available to your muscles and your brain. When that runs low, you will bonk, a particularly unpleasant experience.

You are also using up lots of water, along with other electrolytes. While hydration is obviously important, you also run a very small risk that if you drink too much water and do not replenish your electrolytes (especially sodium) you could get hyponatremia. (More likely though is that you just won't ride as well.)

With a sports drink, you're taking care of 3 needs in one shot.


Meaning what, that you never sweat or exert yourself on a tour? ;)

I concur that in most cases I'm not going all-out like I would in a short race, but you're still exerting yourself, and your body will work more efficiently if you're consistently fueling yourself instead of over long stretches.


I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's pretty much the same stuff.


I would agree that these specific products aren't necessary, and there is a ton of BS out there. But sports drink -- whether commercial or home-made -- are quite beneficial.

You're the person who seems intent on fighting and arguing with everyone.

Evidence please? You might be right, but I'm not aware of proof that these products provide any significant advantage to eating and drinking properly when exercising strenuously.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this, it doesn't make sense to me. As to the supposed advantages of sports drinks over conventional foods, if they exist at all - I agree with others that the marketing is mainly hype - they seem to me to reside entirely in convenience. They allow you to keep riding and to hydrate properly - including glucose and electrolytes - while you ride. But it is perfectly possible to do this with water and suitable food, even while in motion. And even if it weren't, on a tour I don't feel under any particular pressure to ride non-stop for several hours at a stretch anyway. Stopping to look at the view, take a picture, eat something, is all part of the experience. The idea that sports drinks are a necessity, and that it might be worth carrying bags of powder to mix them as I go, seems just a tad absurd.

I dunno. Seems like an electrolyte replacement drink or tablet makes sense if the person wants a more immediate impact instead of waiting for a balanced meal to work it's way through the system. This would be the case for extended periods of difficult/fast riding where the person is using lots of fuel, electrolytes, and water.

Where would one get a regular meal out here?

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...RoyinCurve.jpg

Don't you carry food? I do.

I carry bicycle food. No regular food.

This thread is quite funny. There is no evidence that any electrolyte replacement is necessary in high heat, hard work enviornments. The US Army abondoned salt tablets due to complications from use and now advocates water alone. In america we have more than enough salt in the average diet to replace sweat losses. The human body is a marvel of efficiency and economy, it holds on to what it needs and excretes what it does not. I have toured extensively over 40 years and drink water and eat raisins for energy. If you like the other crap use it. Seems pretty easy to me.

On my last tour (Mexico to Panama) we were riding in near 100-degree heat with 100% humidity and it didn't matter how much water I drank and how much I ate, it was at times impossible to keep up with the hydration. My riding clothes were literally soaked to the point where I was creating puddles under me at each stop. With each pedal stroke, drops of sweat fell off my soaked riding shorts and landed on my calves. At each break I would remove my saturated sweat band (an absolute necessity to keep from being blinded by sweat in the eyes) and wring it out. Despite drinking lots of water and Gatorade (when we could find it) and eating mountains of food, I got ill from dehydration and lost 20 pounds over the course of the tour. If not for the emergency hydration salts I was carrying with me (due to my doctor's recommendation), I would have been in big trouble. Even with that it took several days of drinking double-doses of the stuff before I felt normal again.

We spent a lot of money on Gatorade and Powerade on that trip, and were thankful when we occasionally ran across the powdered mix. On the next one I will definitely try to trim that expense. It adds up.

Evidence? Explanation? Shrug.
5 minutes found these links/this info for those who want to (re-)consider their position or form one if they haven't already.
http://faculty.washington.edu/crowth...C/QandA3.shtml Gatorade replaces sodium losses more effectively than Powerade does

http://www.livestrong.com/article/17...e-vs-gatorade/
Both registered dietician Mitzi Dulan and University of Washington research scientist Greg Crowther believe you should be concerned about replacing sodium loss after a very strenuous and/or long workout session during which you have perspired quite a bit. Maintaining adequate sodium levels is important as sodium helps blood flow by retaining water in the blood....You really only benefit from sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade when you're engaged in very strenuous exercise for over an hour and lose several liters of sweat. The conditions in which you're exercising should also be considered, as you perspire more in hot and humid weather, so you may want to think about a sports drink then as well.
I consider 5-7 hours in the saddle, especially in headwinds and/or with numerous rollers strenuous. YMMV

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
Ingestion of approximately 30-60 g of carbohydrate during each hour of exercise will generally be sufficient to maintain blood glucose oxidation late in exercise and delay fatigue. Since the average rates of gastric emptying and intestinal absorption exceed 1,250 ml.h-1 for water and solutions containing up to 8% carbohydrate, exercising people can be supplemented with both carbohydrate and fluids at relatively high rates. When cyclists exercise at competitive intensities for 2 h in the heat with a sweat rate of 1,400 ml.h-1, it is clear that the closer that fluid consumption matches sweating rate (at least up to 80% of sweating rate), the better. Increasing dehydration, due to inadequate fluid consumption, directly impairs stroke volume, cardiac output, and skin blood flow, which results in larger increases in body core temperature, heart rate, and ratings of the difficulty of exercise. This same phenomenon probably also applies to running, which argues against the notion that a certain amount of dehydration (i.e., up to 3%) is permissible and without major cardiovascular consequences. However, runners generally drink only 500 ml.h-1 of fluid and thus allow themselves to dehydrate at rates of 500-1,000 ml.h-1. The performance question boils down to "Will the time lost as a result of drinking larger volumes be compensated by the physiological benefits drinking produces and the faster running pace that might be achieved during the last half of the race?" However, if the goal is safety, which means minimizing hyperthermia, there is no question that the closer that the rate of drinking can match the rate of dehydration, the better.

http://www.nutritionexpert.com/index...k=sportsdrinks
Sports drinks actually enhance fluid absorption in the small intestine due to the glucose and sodium content. Therefore, sport drinks can have a positive effect on performance and are recommended for events or exercise sessions lasting longer than one hour....However, if you are not exercising for at least one hour then you do not need a sports drink and water is the best source of fluid for you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9232555
Rapid and complete restoration of fluid balance after exercise is an important part of the recovery process, especially in hot, humid conditions, when sweat losses may be high. Rehydration after exercise can only be achieved if the electrolytes lost in sweat, as well as the lost water, are replaced. However, the amount of electrolytes lost in sweat is highly variable between individuals and although the optimum drink may be achieved by matching drink electrolyte intake with sweat electrolyte loss, this is virtually impossible in sport settings. The composition of sweat varies considerably not only between individuals, but also with time during exercise and it is further influenced by the state of acclimatization. A moderate excess of salt intake would appear to be beneficial as far as hydration status is concerned, without any detrimental effects on health, provided that fluid intake is in excess of sweat loss and the renal function is not impaired. To achieve effective rehydration following exercise in the heat, the rehydration beverage should contain moderately high levels of sodium (at least 50 mmol l-1), and possibly also some potassium. The addition of substrate is not necessary for rehydration, although a small amount of carbohydrate (< 2%) may improve the rate of intestinal uptake of sodium and water. The volume of beverage consumed should be greater than the volume of sweat lost to provide for the ongoing obligatory urine losses. Therefore, the palatability of the beverage is important. Many individuals may lose substantial amounts of sweat and will therefore have to consume large amounts of replacement fluids and this is more likely to be achieved if the taste is perceived as being pleasant. Water alone is adequate for rehydration purposes when solid food is consumed, as this replaces the electrolytes lost in sweat. However, there are many situations where intake of solid food is not possible or is deliberately avoided and, in these instances, the inclusion of electrolytes in rehydration beverages is essential. Where a second exercise bout has to be performed, replacement of sweat losses is an essential part of the recovery process. Exercise performance will be impaired if complete rehydration is not achieved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11547892
It is well known that fluid and electrolyte balance are critical to optimal exercise performance and, moreover, health maintenance. Most research conducted on extreme sporting endeavour (>3 hours) is based on case studies and studies involving small numbers of individuals. Ultra-endurance sportsmen and women typically do not meet their fluid needs during exercise. However, successful athletes exercising over several consecutive days come close to meeting fluid needs. It is important to try to account for all factors influencing bodyweight changes, in addition to fluid loss, and all sources of water input. Increasing ambient temperature and humidity can increase the rate of sweating by up to approximately 1 L/h. Depending on individual variation, exercise type and particularly intensity, sweat rates can vary from extremely low values to more than 3 L/h. Over-hydration, although not frequently observed, can also present problems, as can inappropriate fluid composition. Over-hydrating or meeting fluid needs during very long-lasting exercise in the heat with low or negligible sodium intake can result in reduced performance and, not infrequently, hyponatraemia. Thus, with large rates of fluid ingestion, even measured just to meet fluid needs, sodium intake is vital and an increased beverage concentration [30 to 50 mmol/L (1.7 to 2.9 g NaCl/L) may be beneficial. If insufficient fluids are taken during exercise, sodium is necessary in the recovery period to reduce the urinary output and increase the rate of restoration of fluid balance. Carbohydrate inclusion in a beverage can affect the net rate of water assimilation and is also important to supplement endogenous reserves as a substrate for exercising muscles during ultra-endurance activity. To enhance water absorption, glucose and/or glucose-containing carbohydrates (e.g. sucrose, maltose) at concentrations of 3 to 5% weight/volume are recommended. Carbohydrate concentrations above this may be advantageous in terms of glucose oxidation and maintaining exercise intensity, but will be of no added advantage and, if hyperosmotic, will actually reduce the net rate of water absorption. The rate of fluid loss may exceed the capacity of the gastrointestinal tract to assimilate fluids. Gastric emptying, in particular, may be below the rate of fluid loss, and therefore, individual tolerance may dictate the maximum rate of fluid intake. There is large individual variation in gastric emptying rate and tolerance to larger volumes. Training to drink during exercise is recommended and may enhance tolerance.

Make of it what you will. I'm still considering carrying Gatorade mix and continue to wonder how many others do - especially on 2 week or longer tours.

I've toured quite a bit in tropical climates in Asia and Latin America, and have had no problems as long as I drink plenty of water and other fluids, and eat regularly and reasonably. I generally try to start riding early in the morning and avoid riding in the worst heat of the day. In addition to drinking plenty of water, I know that in some countries (e.g. Laos) I was spending more on drinks than food. Both were extremely cheap.

If I'm riding somewhere where food and drink is not readily available, I carry plenty of food and more water than normal. It's not rocket science.

"These products" is not even remotely important. As I suggested earlier, you can roll your own with some maltodextrin powder or similar methods. Nor am I here to do PR for Gatorade. :D

Also, I for one am less concerned with the electrolytes than with carbs/calories. On a side note, I hope it's obviously that I am not suggesting a sports drink as a substitute for proper nutrition. Rather, the advantage is that you are getting the fuel and a handful of specific nutrients faster than if you wait 4 hours between eating. From what I can tell, the scientific research on this has a pretty long pedigree, back to the 70s AFAIK.

As to why that's important... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bonk+cycling


To reiterate, sports drink are not and should not be used as a replacement for real food. Still, if you're going to avoid bonking, most people need around 250 calories per hour while cycling -- a bit more than half of what a typical person burns when riding for an hour.

"Real" food has an advantage in that you aren't consuming empty calories, and are getting other nutrients. However it can be hard to find food that is high in calories and still healthy.

So, you can either stop and eat 5 apples every hour, or have a sports drink (or a gel) and eat a real breakfast, lunch and dinner. ;)

Is this really that hard?

If you want to drink Gatorade, carry powder or buy the premix.
If you want to know what is easier for you, try both.
If you want to know what is cheaper, do the math.

I think what it comes down to is what happens to the body during the ride. If one rides all day at a moderate pace and doesn't sweat too much, it seems like plain water and a balanced diet should be fine. On the other hand, if one is riding at a strenuous pace for an extended period of time and is also sweating quite a bit, then it seems like Gatorade is a no-brainer.

drmweaver2, thanks for the info.

When we first started touring about 10 years ago, we carried sachets of powder or divided a container of it into small ziplock bags. Nowadays, I just drink water and don't feel there is much, if any, difference to my performance. I still drink the mix when racing or training on my racing bike but don't feel the need on tours.

They are good ... a lot of long distance cyclists swear by them. When I ride on hot days, I find I get a bit nauseated ... I take an electrolyte pill, and it seems to settle my stomach very shortly after. They are much better than relying on a sports drink to provide you with electrolytes and they are light and hardly take up any room. You could get away with water in your bottles, a bit of food in your bags, and electrolyte tablets ... and not have to worry about bringing sports drinks at all.


I don't have blood pressure or diabetic problems either. As I got into cycling more and more, I became curious about what might be available in my local grocery store to provide me with some variety from the usual energy bars. I also became curious about the nutritional content of foods. So I spent some time really looking at what was on the shelves of my local grocery store. I also listened with interest to what other cyclists use, and Rowan was the first one who brought the maltodextrin mix idea to my attention. I headed to my local wine making place to pick up maltodextrin, and to my grocery store to get the rest of the ingredients. If I use that, I tend to use a simplified version of the recipe he gave me.


No, I don't believe I have ever carried a drink powder on a tour. I use a lot of plain water, and pick up the occasional bottled drink (orange juice, coke, orangina, etc.) from grocery stores along the way.

And for electrolytes on longer tours, I bring a small bottle of multi-vitamins complete with minerals which I replenish at a grocery store along the way if the tour is particularly long. I bring a small bottle of electrolyte pills to use on hot days. And I eat foods which I know are high in the main electrolytes.


One other thing about carrying a drink powder ... most of my tours are in a country other than my own and involve a flight and customs/immigration etc. There are rules and restrictions regarding bringing foods into other countries, and I prefer flying in as simply as possible, and then picking up what I need when I arrive ... rather than having to worry about declaring my food etc.. Also, with the tightening of the weight restrictions on baggage, 2 lbs can make or break whether I pay $50 for the bicycle or $175 for overweight luggage. I prefer to travel as light as possible ... and then look for what I need in terms of nutrition once I arrive.

If you opt to tour from home, you may pack differently than those of us who travel some distance to start our tours.

I remember citing a paper to a professor of mine in surgical training years ago. Charlie he said, at least 50 % of the science a person read is bull****. Most of these articles are crap. Absorbtion of water is not enhanced by glucose or sodium. We need fluid, no one is arguing that, and we need food, no one is arguing that. When we eat fruit , carbs or any other food source we are taking in the electrolytes we need. Keep it simple and keep it real. Having said all that I do sometimes take a bottle of some gatorade equivalent on a long ride with a bottle of water. For calories I take a bag of raisins. Why? Because I like them.

Raisins are a decent choice for potassium consumption ... one loosely packed cup of them has 31% of your daily potassium requirement. That's quite high. They've also got a decent amount of other vitamins and minerals. Have them with something salty, and you'll have your electrolytes.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/2050/2

"I like Gatorade so I drink Gatorade. Why would that bother anyone? "

Doesn't bother me, but it isn't much of a recomendation either. Might as well be vodka. Next time I am cycling at training camp in Florida, I will definetly look into this stuff. :)

Best thing about raisins which my kids just loved when they were little is that the turks were lacing them with lead powder as some kind of pesticide, and the Gov knew about it for 18 months before they rocked the boat at all. Easy for me to say, because we are entering the 2 weeks when we successfully provide our own food. Goodness knows what goes in our mouths the rest of the year.

I agree with surgeonstone. How many reputable labs are just dying to spend huge bucks studying gatorade claims, for the love of science... :)

While I know there are some people here, like Matchka, who are really serious about their riding, what is probably happening for most people is that they get out beyond the McDonalds for the first time in a while (if that is still possible), and before you know it, they are feeling a huge sugar, salt, and caffein deficit. Then they take some electrolyte replacement stuff just to get normal with their various addictions.

Not really rockin' the whole humility thing are you? Careful, or you'll choke on all that piety.

Im thinking that even the most natural of diets isn't preparing one for sustained, heavy exertion during summer conditions. Sure, if you're wandering around the Savannah gagging on roots and berries, all is well. But, I ride hard in high heat and high humidity this time of year, and can sweat out wringing wet in just a short time.

All my "addictions" aside, I'm fairly sure that something needs replenishment down in the old muscle factories if I want to get back to the house. I prefer water by itself, though, so I add a half-strength quantity of electrolyte, just in case all those wicked Gatorade scientists are on to something.

I also can get quite nauseous after a long ride in the heat. I always tell people the feeling is like a hangover, but with tired legs.

That's what kind of cracks me up about this "debate" - maybe energy drinks aren't that useful in many of the situations where they are consumed, but it certainly isn't going to hurt those who ride long distances to have a gatorade. I also have to wonder if the people who are so adamantly against them are equally diligent about everything else they consume.

Just for reference purposes ... electrolytes in real food. Have a browse through and see what foods you might like to bring or find on a tour ... :)

Foods that are the highest in sodium, potassium, and calcium ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-...0000000-w.html


I'm sure we can all figure out what foods might be high in sodium, so here are the ones that are highest in potassium ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-...0000000-w.html

Foods that are high in calcium ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-...0000000-w.html

Foods that are high in magnesium ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-...0000000-w.html


Here's an interesting choice ... pumpkin seeds! Loaded with magnesium, plus a bit of sodium and potassium, and a dash of calcium.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/3164/2

Dried apricots ... heaps of potassium, some magnesium, and a bit of calcium and sodium
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1836/2

Wendy's French Fries ... potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium!
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...generic/9275/2

Potato chips ... overloaded with potassium, lots of sodium, magnesium, and even Vit C
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/snacks/5627/2

Just to name a few choices in the lists. :D

A single gatorade is probably not going to hurt a long distance cyclist ... several, on the other hand, may. My problem with gatorade is that gatorade contains simple sugars which, after consuming several gatorades on a long distance ride, give me mouth sores. The longer the ride and the more gatorade consumed, the bigger and badder the mouth sores. I switched to maltodextrin based sports drinks ... no more mouth sores. :) So yes, I am that diligent with everything I consume ... I diligently avoid foods that cause me pain and discomfort.

If a person likes gatorade, that's fine .................... but I've offered several options for "saving money on electrolyte replacements while on tour" (the title of this thread). Some interesting options for those would prefer not to drink gatorade too often.