+1

And, this:

Didn't read the entire thread but if nobody had mentioned it I would try Emergence-C. I personally think the stuff is great. It has quite a bit of vitamins in it, but more importantly it has the needed electrolytes and it's not sugary like gatorades, which the sugar makes me sick when it's hot. A box only runs about $10 (100 packets I think). so you only need to take what you need. And you can mix the servings as you need them instead of being stuck with just gatorade. I fight fire in the summer times and have seen alot of dehydration and run down sick bodies and this stuff has helped alot of people.

Exactly ... electrolytes are very small ingredients of sports drinks and can be acquired in pill form, from things like HalfSalt (Light Salt), and in common food. And since you can get sugar just about anywhere, including in foods like chocolate bars, pastries, fruit, etc. etc. (so much better tasting than sports drinks) ........ why carry 2 lbs of sugar around?

The only way I could see it is if you're doing the Dempster Highway, a crossing from Adelaide to Darwin, or something else similarly remote ... and even so, I think I'd opt for "rolling my own".

This thread got me thinking and I did some online label reading. I was surprised to find that the Gatorade products have such a small amount of electrolytes. Same thing for the Hammer tablets, but it has a high amount of Vitamin B-6. The Emergenc-C product seems to be the only thing with any reasonable amount of Potassium.

In contrast, here are some regular foods and their potassium levels. Some examples are:
cup of OJ: 496 mg
banana, 1 cup: 596 mg
1 cup of cantaloupe: 494 mg
1 cup of raisins: 1089 mg

Hammer Endurolytes tablets (dosage is anywhere from 1 - 6 per hour):
Sodium (as Sodium Chloride) 40mg 2%
Chloride (as Sodium Chloride) 60mg 2%
Calcium (as Chelate) 50mg 5%
Magnesium (as Chelate) 25mg 6%
Potassium (as Chelate) 25mg 1%
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine HCL) 6.6mg 330%
Manganese (as Chelate) 1.6mg 80%

Gatorade products, per 8 ounces:
110-140 mg of sodium 3%
30-45 mg of Potassium, 2%

Emergenc-C:
Magnesium 120 mg, 30%
Potassium 408 mg, 12%

I guess I'll skip the fancy products for now on and just stick to mother nature. Even on a long ride, seems like it might be better to just grab an OJ at 7-11 instead of Gatorade.

I use NUUN, The tabs come in a tube of 12 and make 160z of drink

Yes, that's one problem with Gatorade. If you use it for water and electrolytes, you'll slowly go downhill. Endurolytes, you can take as many as you need, separate from hydration. On tour, we're taking Endurolytes, otherwise just food. Very light, not much space. Doubt we'll need them much, if at all.

Don't really need potassium in an electrolyte replacement, since there's so much in food. I think everyone knows to grab a banana in a store - just don't eat it on the road and drop the peel - that not everyone knows. Salted peanuts, raisins, M&Ms in a bag, by thirds. Tastes good, cheap, works.

Personally, I think the sport-drink stuff is a bit overrated.

Anyway, most people consume more than "8 ounces" of these things as "a serving" (a large Gatorade is 32oz). While cycling, tend people drink more frequently than they eat. Also, there's not much hydration going on with raisins (for example).

According to the label, Endurolytes don't have much in the way of electrolyes. Most of what you're getting is vitamin B6. I guess if you take a bunch you'd make a dent. One thing I haven't found is how much the body loses due to sweat and exercise. From what I understand, the RDA is for an average person, not for a person undergoing heavy and extended exertion. As such, I assume that the electrolyte loss and consequent need is probably higher than the RDA. If so, then these supplements just don't seem to be anywhere close to what is needed and what can be found in regular food.

32 oz of Gatorade would have 8% of the Potassium RDA. A cup of OJ (8oz) has almost twice that. I like Gatorade and think its fine for a combination of water and energy with a sprinkling of potassium and sodium, but if I was starting to cramp or otherwise felt I needed some potassium, I'd grab some OJ or a banana (probably an OJ because convenience store bananas are often less than appealing to me). Raisins would be excellent as well, but I don't like them too much, except in cereal.

On my Randonneuring events, one of my favourite combinations is 100% pure orange juice plus a packet of beef jerky. You get your calories for energy, plus potassium and Vit C from the orange juice, plus sodium from the beef jerky, plus protein to help keep you going longer on the really long rides.

A convenient food with a very high level of potassium are dried apricots. A combination of dried apricots and salted almonds and you're set. I have used the combination on several of my long rides as well.

Dried apricots sound like a good idea, ditto other dried fruits.

Here are the stats for 1 cup of dried apricots, which you might nibble on throughout the day ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1838/2

They are loaded with Vit A, iron, and potassium, as well as containing smaller quantities of quite a few other vitamins and minerals. They are also a good source of dietary fibre which helps to keep your digestive tract running properly.

Now add the salted almonds ...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/3170/2

Salted almonds are full of Vit E, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium, and all sorts of vitamins and minerals ... as well as being a good source of dietary fibre and protein.

Eat both, and wash them down with 100% pure orange juice for some extra liquid, and you'll top up your Vit C and ensure you've got ample Potassium.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...-juices/1971/2

Just with those three food items alone, you'll have calories to give you energy to ride, plus all the electrolytes you need.

For some variety, you might try a baked potato at lunch or dinner, with salt.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/2903/2
Potatoes with skins on are a good source of Vit C and potassium, and contain several other vitamins and minerals ... salt the potatoes and they are also a good source of sodium. Add cheese and you've also got a good source of calcium.

Try serving the baked potato with ground beef, and you'll get the protein needed to help rebuild your muscles and keep them from wearing out riding day after day on a tour plus a number of other vitamins & minerals, including potassium ... and if you add salt, sodium.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/6191/2



BTW - I think the reason why the quantity of electrolytes in drinks and the pills is relatively low is because it is assumed that people will drink several bottles of the drink, or consume several pills throughout the day. On a long hot ride, I'll take an electrolyte pill first thing in the morning, then about one every 2-3 hours or so for the duration of the ride. By the end of the day, that adds up.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/05...mythology.html

http://joefriel.typepad.com/blog/page/2/

I loop ride for recreation and fitness - an hour, hour and a half, 4-5 times/week. I'm not really interested in long drawn out cycling events, randonneur riding, or such as that. I generally have other things to do than spend all day, and longer, humping myself or a bunch of gear around on a bike.
So, my needs are geared towards burst demand. I add a little sugar, salt and lite salt to the water I drink, just barely enough to taste it. Too much, and it all gets kinda "icky tasting."
I won't even do that much in the winter, but the hot, intense summers in South Carolina can really tap you out - so I add this little boost.

The rest of the time, I just eat food and drink beer. And I love dried fruits, oatmeal, potatoes - all that good stuff. SO it works out.
Thank you for your well organized response.

On rides from home, I use the bottled Gatorade rather than the powder, even though it is more expensive, simply to get a larger variety of flavors. I stock up when the 32-ounce bottles are on sale for 59 cents.

On tour, I don't want to carry the weight of the powder, and I'm not willing to pay $2.50 for the bottles at many convenience stores, so I just drink water. Furthermore, because it's often harder to thoroughly clean your bottles on tour, I also prefer not to put mold-growing stuff in my bottles. Finally, on most tours I usually pass through towns frequently enough to get food and drink, while my rides from home usually seek out unpopulated areas where I must carry my own replenishments.

Sorry to provide more information than necessary to simply answer the question, but this would be a very dull thread if everybody just answered with only "yes" or "no".

I'll add my voice in here saying you most likely don't need anything special on tour. We rode from Alaska to northern Peru drinking just plain water and were just fine. Looking back on it, I think there were a few times in Central America that I should have added something to my water - but we survived fine on water.

Going through the desert of northern Peru the water was simply not enough for me - hubby and kids seemed to do fine on the water though. For that stretch, I simply strapped a 2-liter bottle of Inca Cola on my bike and took a swig or two of that for every bottle of water I drank - seemed to do the trick. I'm not sure what was in there, but whatever it was it helped.

Now that we are out of the desert, I'm back to plain ol' water and it's just fine.

What is the RDA for a person riding a bike for hours in the hot sun and humidity? The RDA on the label is for the general population, not endurance athletes. Until we know how much of the different electrolytes we lose with exercise, we will have no idea how much to replace, and relying on a baseline for people NOT exercising is a misleading figure at best.

Just think about it logically - Gatorade (and others) tells everyone that sweating a lot means that electrolytes need to be replaced (with their products, of course), but their products actually have very small amounts of those electrolytes. If their products are indeed effective for electrolyte replacement, it must mean that only small amounts of electrolytes are lost and need replacing. If that is the case, then a very small amount of regular food will do the same thing, which means the only benefit to Gatorade is the convenience. If, however, more than very small amounts of electrolytes need replacing, then their products must be ineffective.

Finally, regarding problems from having too much potassium via a supplement, eating a couple bananas would introduce a lot more potassium into one's system and we should have all heard the dangers from eating bananas while riding instead of how beneficial they are.

I should add here that it can be really dangerous to get too low on electrolytes! In 1994 hubby and I went for a bike ride and - for a bunch of reasons - hubby's electrolyte balance got all screwed up and it sent his heart into arrythmia. He lived with it for 8 days before collapsing and was put in the hospital (we were living in Ethiopia at the time). the Ethiopian doctors knew exactly what needed to be done, but they refused to treat him due to the risk of him dying and they had no backup, so we had to get an air ambulance to Israel - at a cost of $90,000!!!!!

So - if you are sweating profusely for extended periods of time you need to make sure you drink! Drink! Drink!

I wasn't the person who brought up the RDA!! People who are exercising are likely to be consuming more than the RDA anyway because they are likely to be eating more food!

Anyway, I wasn't talking about the RDA in this comment. I was talking about dosing.

I'm not claiming one is better than the other. I don't think it matters much for most people (especially people touring).

The electrolytes are only a part of why Gatorade is supposedly useful. (Yes, there certainly is a goal to sell people Gatorade. I would definitely suggest skepticism about manufacturer's claims.)

No one is making that claim.

We don't know which approach is better. I don't think it matters much.

(I don't think sports-drinks are typically necessary for people generally or people touring.)

===============

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/h...rHydration.htm
And...

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/drinks.htm

And...

http://www.brighamandwomens.org/heal...ubID=submenu10

wow... interesting how this thread has gone...

I go with the GA powder when touring. Do I really need it? Debatable for sure. I do like some flavoring though. I also find some tap water to be pretty nasty and the mix makes it drinkable to me. If for that reason alone the GA works. Anything to help me take in fluids can't be considered a bad thing.

Living in the Northwest.... Might have something to do with my water snobbery. Some of the best water in the country comes out of our faucets.. no britta needed. So when I get tap water that comes from a well and tastes like.. something other than water I lose interest.

The powder is cheap enough... The small containers make I think 2 gallons. Enough to last me for a few days or more in hot weather.

I still pound down the fruit as well. Love my fruit while touring or at home.

Many people can't abide the taste of even good water!

I carry this on tour, its a concentrated liquid electrolyte replacement:

http://www.herbalremedies.com/electr...ncentrate.html

One bottle lasted two people over two two-week tours, and I've taken it on several backpacking trips too. Typically I down a cap full, then chase it with some water. I've affectionately nicknamed it MONKEYSWEAT.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/herbal-remed...2120_651872042

You said "8% is a lot for one serving." You are referring to the RDA when you do that. Anyway, I get the feeling that you are much more interested in arguing than anything else, so I'm done with you here.

You are the one all concerned about quantity and you brought up the RDA for a whole bunch of things.

You implied that Gatorade doesn't have enough potassium in it.

Why does it matter that Gatorade has less potassium per oz than other things?

As long as people get the amount of potassium (or whatever) they need (and they typically don't have to worry too much about it), the amount in particular random foods is not very important.

The fact that one random food happens has more than some other random food doesn't make it better.

I usually have a tube of Nuun tablets and a couple of gels for when I need something other than water and I'm not close to a place to buy something. Does that answer the O/T?

I've used individual powder packets a bit, but they kept getting beaten up in my bar bag and a couple times split open, leaving me with a bar-bag-bottom full of fruit punch powderdust. Add reaching into the bag with sweaty meathooks and just imagine the fun. Riding through/sleeping in bear country smelling like fruit punch is considered poor form in many circles.

I like the tablets because they fizz a little, too.

Like I said, you seem much more interested in arguing than anything else. I tried to explain why I made certain comments. If you don't understand, I guess that's just the way it is.