xizangstan, the roll top Ortlieb is good. I was living on a boat for awhile riding with tools and laptop. The panniers will last a lot longer if no sharp objects are allowed to rub against the inside. I've got mine lined with 1/4" bubble wrap, cloth shopping bags or Thermarest seat pads depending on what's inside. Go straight to waterproof and not water resistant. With the top of a large Ortlieb rolled neatly you will have enough time to retrieve it from the water if it falls overboard. The big Ortlieb rollers are a little under three lbs. You won't get lighter than that for a given level of durability.

If you can handle the color the older pvc coated ones come in bright orange and yellow.

That is my theory and so far it is still paying off at the young age of 50 (and a bit). I have quality products that I bought 30 years ago that are still in use and doing the job they were designed for. I HATE throw away stuff.

Aaron :)

I completely agree. When I first got into cycling, I cheaped out, figuring it was like a lot of things in life, where cheaper isn't necessarily worse. Turns out, it usually is in cycling. I just look for the best quality (or close to it) and buy it, knowing that I won't have to buy it again any time soon as I would if I bought a cheaper version.

As for the panniers, I have Ortlieb Backroller Classics, I've used them for around 8 months, and they've held up quite well. My first over night trip, I dropped the bike on them a few times (by accident, I wasn't used to their affect balance), and they're still in one piece, they look almost new actually. They certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.

Arkel makes an excellent product as well. I have had them + rain covers in an all-day downpour and nothing got wet (made in western canada where they know something about rain). I prefer the pockets / organization capabilities of the Arkel over the Orlieb "big sack" options.

Ortlieb is what I use.

While it's agreed the problems they had with the Ortliebs themselves were the result of simply wearing out - it's unforgivable to see Ortliebs customer service so arrogant and totally lacking. And they were refusing to even communicate with customers who had their panniers still in warranty? Thanks to that one very important bit of information, I believe I will buy anything but Ortliebs. I refuse to patronize arrogance.

I'm sorry, but this is just hilarious. Writing off a manufacturer's entire line of products because of a single poor review is the definition of arrogance. (So is assuming they give a crap about your single purchase.)

I know there are a lot of Ortlieb lovers around here, but that is the one brand I won't be buying again. They are OK, and I do love the easy-on/easy-off feature of them, but they just aren't as durable as our others. Every single one of the fasteners broke and had to be replaced - which was a quite involved process. I also don't like the one big bag - way too hard to organize.

My favorite panniers by far are Overland, but the company went out of business a while ago (didn't sell enough panniers since they never wear out???). Given that I can't buy the Overlands now, I suspect that the next set of panniers I buy will be either Arkel or Carradice - they both look rock solid and should last for a very long time.

my ortliebs are about 17 years old I think, did lots of long tours with me, but more importantly, have been used commuting for all those years too. Day in day out. I take care of my stuff, ie, dont lean them up against a rough wall, sharp stuff. Cushion inside if putting something with a sharp or rough edge on it.

they have never broken, never fallen off, the handles and clip on assembly has never loosened, broken or anything. What can I say, I am a model Ortlieb customer review.
Yes, one big container is diff than pocket panniers, but I have had those too, but they werent waterproof so I love having not to worry about rain and such wiht my stuff.

I suspect that there are other good waterproof brands, but if you are able to, its nice to see some Ortliebs to see the construction, as well as others just to get a hands on feel for how they seem and compare to others.

When it comes time for me to get new panniers, I will check out others, but even though these were pricey for me all those years ago...in the long run....not really and they just have worked and worked. No issues.

caveat--mine are the rollover ones, and when you roll them shut, you seal them with big black clips, like on backpacks or whatever. Over the years, these got stepped on, shut in doors etc while aroiund the house, and so the clips broke. I finally replaced them all with hiking equipment store similiar clips (40cents each or something) had to improvise to put them on without cutting the webbing--I had thought I would have to go to a corner shoe store repair place to get them to resew the webbing, but in the end, I didnt cut the webbing, but sawed off the old clips, and got the new ones on by cutting a diagonal cut in part of the clip and slipping it over the existing webbing, it worked well and they dont move.

^I'd love to see a picture of your DIY clips

I could show you, but really, they look identical to the original clips that came with the bag. You know, one end is a male end, other is female. Just regular old click in clips that close knapsacs, shoulderbags etc. The replacements are the same size as the originals too, about an inch a bit wide, and when the two parts are joined, its about 2 and a half inches long.

I did have to take mine to the shoe repair place to have the clips replaced - and finding clips down here in South America was a challenge in and of itself! We have those same clips on our Overland and Jandd panniers and they haven't broken at all - even though they have a few years' worth of use on them. (I also have a big ol' hole in one of my Ortliebs from where a mouse tried to get to an old muffin that managed to find its way in. I don't hold that one against Orlieb though...)

here in Canada we have Mountain Equipment Coop stores, MEC. They had bins full of diff sized clip, to fix backpacks etc, so they were easy and cheap to find. At least one of my clips was broken by getting shut in a car door, and others were partialy broken by getting stepped on umpteen umpteen times over the years I guess when it wasnt flat, partially over something, so "crack". They usually still worked after a fashion, and to be honest, I actually had to go back and buy more clips at one point because after a year or two of not replacing them, I couldnt find the first ones I bought....as the "broken" ones still worked more or less, and the other middle strappy thing was still fine, I kept on putting it off and putting it off.

Nancy and co, if you would want a spare clip or two, would it be worth having someone mail a few to you to a known destination?

mouse--yup, like the old "food" in the tent for critters....I guess there are iron on patch kits or something to repair the hole. I guess you could use even a thermorest repair kit patch?

So most of you are pleased with the panniers you have. That's a good thing. And it appears on the surface at least, that most of you prefer Ortliebs. Broken plastic clips and mouse holes are the main problems with them. (aside from their unresponsive customer service department, which should be avoided at all costs)

I also find it interesting that none of the pannier people use red reflective patches on the rears or amber ones on the sides of their panniers. It's like they live in a different world...

Ortliebs do have silver very reflective material at the back, mine still reflect pretty well. WhenI am driving my car at night, Ortlieb or other brnads with reflector patches on them really do stand out.

It would be smart thought to put some on the sides as well.

I was in a bike store today here in Montreal that sell Ortliebs, looked at them more closely. Mine have a rubber , stretchy rubber thing that holds the hook that hooks to the rack . The new system is that funny looking plastic doohicky that is supposed to slide onto your rack vertical bars---do you with them find that it works well?
To be honest I am not sure I like the look of it, doesnt look as foolproof for quick on action as the old system.

would like to hear what you think of it, was it finicky to put in the proper position for your rack? Does it hold the pannier securely? Ive gotta say, the old system has been pretty bombproof and never has not performed properly.

The store had the regular ones (flap top) , then the rollers classic in the heavier and more shiny material. Then rollers plus , a lighter material that is very similiar to mine, but slightly thinner I would say, which given how long mine have lasted, I am not happy to see.

that said, if i were to buy another pair, I would go rollers and probably the plus, not cheap tho--$215 for the Plus. $175 I believe for the standard ones with fold over top lid thing.

^Do you mean the bottom hook?

I haven't yet put mine through the paces, as it were, but I think it's a pretty elegant system. Of course I worry about anything plastic snapping in two, but the design itself seems sound. The pannier is stiff enough that the two upper attachments plus the lower hook-thing make for a very stable attachment. Set up correctly, it makes for insanely easy on/off. Personally, I wouldn't want to worry about bungeeing the bottom of my pannier down all the time.

thanks, although the old "hook" system is pretty simple too, just position the hook on the bottom part of the rack, pull up and click bag onto rack. Done.
Good though that the new (ish, may have been around for years for all I know) system works well. I would expect it to, given the level of quality of the company in general.

I remember owning a pair of panniers that had actual red reflectors on the back.

Many panniers can be used either right or left. If you had one side with a red reflective patch, a lot of people would put the panniers on the wrong way and have the red reflective patches on the front. Probably just as well to have silver all around.

There's not a lot of point to having side reflectors. Side reflectors shine only when headlights are in line with the reflectors. That means that, in the blink of an eye in which you are actually in front of the car and reflecting the car's light, either you're either too far away from the car to be in serious danger, or it's too late and you're already toast.

and jam
(apologies to those working in the confiture business)

I just bought a full set of hand made Carradice Super C's. They seem very well constructed so far. I rode through a typhoon in South Korea a few weeks ago and can assure you they are water proof. The top rail is made of metal, not plastic. If they get a hole in them I can sew it back together and they will be water proof again. They are lighter, cheaper, and have more pockets that Ortlieb. Whats not to love?

very good to see the various names mentioned, I hope my Ortliebs will last a while longer. I have often thought that when they die, I will get another pair, but it is good to see other quality brands. I am however keen on waterproof ones, its hard to go back after using them, no matter the brand.

I use Carradice at the rear and Ortleib at the front. All my food lives in ortleibs, they are easier to clean in case of a pesto spillage and keep dry stuffs dry. They can also live outdoors in heavy rain and if you fly with wet bags, you can dry them off. With carradice you have to fly with heavy wet bags.
My 1995 Super-C have been repaired lots of times at wear points. The recomended repair method using carradice kit is with their cotton canvas and Copydex rubber solution fabric glue. You need to be creative with the patch shape, avoiding long straight lines (which can increase further wear).
Carradice support is first rate, spares still available.

I've seen Ortleib products at my local REI and they look good. But I am attracted to the Arkel line at this point. I have never used any panniers so I am brand new to the whole thing. The reason I like the Arkel products is they look well made, have a lot of features for organizing items, and they make panniers (RT-60) specifically for recumbent bikes (I have a Longbikes Slipstream).

Who knows where I can get the good Carradice, Ortlieb or similar hanging hardware? I have some cheapos right now that need good rack hangers, and probably should rig them for reliable commuter and fair weather panniers, while I save and shop for the real stuff.

I got my Carradice panniers from sjscyclry.com ,If I remember right.